Would you change your brexit vote?

[lardy]

The hoover / fright etc were examples of a agreement

WAHR and TWAHD

appolgises, i often use the acronym, as i use it in work and the people i use it with of course know what it means

The Work at Height Regulations 2005
The Temporary Work at Height Directive

both part of the European Council Directive 2001/45/EC

I'm not really sure where you're going with this. You're just naming things - are you against them? Do you think safety at work is a bad thing? You say you wouldn't be arrested if you filled in the form wrongly but I am quite sure you'd be in trouble if you hadn't and then an employee was badly injured or died. And quite rightly, in my opinion. You perhaps don't need to fill in a form to keep people safe but unfortunately there are employers who will dangerously cut corners if they could get away with it.

So energy efficiency and safety at work. Any other ghastly intrusions from Europe that we can do away with?

but a UK citizen does , this is my point

It's the same situation but at different scales.

[Eric Cartman]

but a UK citizen does , this is my point

And an EU citizen does for MEP's. Do you have think it is wrong that a UK citizen can't vote out an MEP in France?

I can't think of any other way it could work.

[blue matt]

So energy efficiency Any other ghastly intrusions from Europe that we can do away with?

It doesnt matter what i think, as you will just argue the other side of the argument, the reason i named them was it is seen as a agreement

[blue matt]

And an EU citizen does for MEP's. Do you have think it is wrong that a UK citizen can't vote out an MEP in France?

I can't think of any other way it could work.

yes a EU citizen does, correct, my point being i would prefer the UK rules / laws / how energy efficient our hoovers / kettles to be decided by MP the UK vote in and then ultimately out, it surely isnt that hard to understand

[TH63]

but a UK citizen does , this is my point

I guess there are two layers of democracy at work here, a little like in the USA, where you have state laws and federal laws

Following your argument, it's like a Floridian complaining that he doesn't have a say on who the California senators are, but at least they're Americans.

Some might say you don't have a say on who the MEP for Madrid central is, but at least another European does.

I think the fundamental issue here, is whether you see yourself as part of the United States of Europe or not. I can totally understand how controversial that will be to many, and also agree that that's not what we signed up for.

[Eric Cartman]

yes a EU citizen does, correct, my point being i would prefer the UK rules / laws / how energy efficient our hoovers / kettles to be decided by MP the UK vote in and then ultimately out, it surely isnt that hard to understand

Personally I think the energy efficiency of Hoovers in my street should be decided by people who live in/represent my street.

Those people in Westminster have no idea what it is like to live in my street and suck up dust here, we need more powerful Hoovers.

[lardy]

It doesnt matter what i think, as you will just argue the other side of the argument, the reason i named them was it is seen as a agreement

I don't need to, you're doing a decent enough job on my behalf

yes a EU citizen does, correct, my point being i would prefer the UK rules / laws / how energy efficient our hoovers / kettles to be decided by MP the UK vote in and then ultimately out, it surely isnt that hard to understand

So you're happy with energy efficiency if it's set by the UK but not if it's by Europe? Fair play, that is absolutely bonkers.

[Kris]

the point being, the someone in the UK does, If the government implement a massively unpopular law / tax rise etc etc the UK ( or people of the UK ) can vote them out at the next GE, yes i understand that you yourself cannot vote out the MP for Chelsea or Amber Valley, but they can

you ( or anyone else in the UK ) cannot vote out the MEP for Germany / France etc etc

But the Germans and French can vote out MEPs in Germany and France. Isn't every MEP elected?

[TH63]

But the Germans and French can vote out MEPs in Germany and France. Isn't every MEP elected?

Yes

[Kris]

when i say Law and Regulations,

I work with the WAHR and TWAHD, while its a regulation, a police officer is hardly going to come and arrest me for not filling out a Risk assessment and complying with the Regulation

not to mention freedom of movement of labour,child benefits for migrant workers and of course the fishermans woes

ref agreements, we make agreements with the EU over various things, didnt they tell us the motor on hoovers had to be more energy efficient, Fridge / freezers / kettles / hairdryers ( the list goes on ) had to be more efficient

Child benefit to migrant workers costs the UK barely anything (I think I read it was £20m per annum). Migrant workers pay tax and NI and VAT. The UK benefits from migrant workers, so much so that reducing migration by 84000 could mean the U.K. has to borrow more per year!

[Kris]

Yes

So what is Matt's point? Anyone?

[TH63]

So what is Matt's point? Anyone?

As far as I can gather he's a bit pissed off that some French bloke won't let him buy a hoover.

[blue matt]

I think the fundamental issue here, is whether you see yourself as part of the United States of Europe or not. I can totally understand how controversial that will be to many, and also agree that that's not what we signed up for.

cheers for a sensible discussion

I personally do not want to be part of " United States of Europe " thats why i voted "leave" and back to the original question " Would you change your brexit vote? " No i wouldnt

I will leave the children to play now

[TH63]

cheers for a sensible discussion

I personally do not want to be part of " United States of Europe " thats why i voted "leave" and back to the original question " Would you change your brexit vote? " No i wouldnt

I will leave the children to play now

I think that's the crux of it for many people, and a view I can empathise with tbh.

[Feedback]

In the EU - it's the commission and the unelected commissioners that seems to have the powers - not the MEPs. They dont get to set EU law - they just get to vote on it. MEPs are basically puppets of the commission.

Luckily in Parliament - there is no such commission type arrangement. Parties in the EU parliament tend to just sit together depending on their various political viewpoints. Not exactly a great way to do things in my opinion.

That's not how the EU works. The legal agenda is set by the council, drafted by the commission and voted on by parliament. Its exactly the same as the government setting the agenda, the civil service drafting legislation and parliament voting on any new law.

We don't elect our civil service yet it is respected as being non partisan and up there with the very best.

[Feedback]

yes a EU citizen does, correct, my point being i would prefer the UK rules / laws / how energy efficient our hoovers / kettles to be decided by MP the UK vote in and then ultimately out, it surely isnt that hard to understand

Let me see if I've got this right.

On one hand you think a system whereby you can only vote for a politician representing your area, but you don't have a say on electing politicians from other areas, is a good thing, whilst at the same time you think the same system is a bad thing.

[Feedback]

yes a EU citizen does, correct, my point being i would prefer the UK rules / laws / how energy efficient our hoovers / kettles to be decided by MP the UK vote in and then ultimately out, it surely isnt that hard to understand

UK law is set by parliament and not brussels. It has always been this way. Have a read about how EU directives are implemented.

[tommy31]

Let me see if I've got this right.

On one hand you think a system whereby you can only vote for a politician representing your area, but you don't have a say on electing politicians from other areas, is a good thing, whilst at the same time you think the same system is a bad thing.

He just wunts Britain to be about British mun

[lardy]

He just wunts Britain to be about British mun

For all the attempts at a " sensible discuss'ion ", this is what it actually comes down to.