British & Irish Lions

[LordKenwyne]

Anyone interested?.

I was just reading about the 2005 tour and how bad it was. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40069682

Clive Woodward was the coach and some of his ideas were awful :

"I was chairman of the midweek massive," (midweek club games instead of the test games v New Zealand) says [ex-Wales outside centre] Tom Shanklin, about the obvious split that appeared in the squad.

"It was funny when they were reading out who was going to be on which bus. Bus one would be 'Wilkinson, O'Connell, O'Driscoll'. You're waiting for your name to be read out.

"Then bus two would be, 'Andy Titterell, Ollie Smith, Shanks…

"There was that divide straight away. All the big dogs on bus one. You knew that you weren't in the selectors' thoughts."

There is a radio show about that tour tonight on 5 live at 730.

All the official documentaries are on Sky demand. Great viewing it follows the players during the tours. Warts and all. Barely any cheesy slow mo's etc. And they're even better if you've forgotten the results.

Here are two of them:

2009:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97uxJmXMQuc

1997:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUbzUS9MYfg

[life on mars]

Anyone interested?.

I was just reading about the 2005 tour and how bad it was. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40069682

Clive Woodward was the coach and some of his ideas were awful :

"I was chairman of the midweek massive," (midweek club games instead of the test games v New Zealand) says [ex-Wales outside centre] Tom Shanklin, about the obvious split that appeared in the squad.

"It was funny when they were reading out who was going to be on which bus. Bus one would be 'Wilkinson, O'Connell, O'Driscoll'. You're waiting for your name to be read out.

"Then bus two would be, 'Andy Titterell, Ollie Smith, Shanks…

"There was that divide straight away. All the big dogs on bus one. You knew that you weren't in the selectors' thoughts."

There is a radio show about that tour tonight on 5 live at 730.

All the official documentaries are on Sky demand. Great viewing it follows the players during the tours. Warts and all. Barely any cheesy slow mo's etc. And they're even better if you've forgotten the results.

Here are two of them:

2009:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97uxJmXMQuc

1997:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUbzUS9MYfg

They will get stuffed

[LordKenwyne]

They will get stuffed

There is a very good chance.

It's ridiculous the short turn around. I think they're mid flight as we speak.

Then they've got a game saturday morning.

I'm not sure how long it takes to get over jet lag but flying east which is apparently the worst + 12 hours time difference....

[Arfur Europe]

Genuinely excited about this tour as they go up against the stubborn, talented and sometimes brutal World champions.

They also play all of their best club / regional sides which will undoubtedly mean injuries and withdrawals. The squad in the Tests could therefore be totally different to the one leaving today.

[the other bob wilson]

Genuinely excited about this tour as they go up against the stubborn, talented and sometimes brutal World champions.

They also play all of their best club / regional sides which will undoubtedly mean injuries and withdrawals. The squad in the Tests could therefore be totally different to the one leaving today.

I was always something of a grudging admirer of the All Blacks because, when I was growing up they relied on brute force rather than skill to exert their dominance. However, something changed around thirty years ago and they started playing a far more watchable brand of running rugby - more often than not they were the best team, but they were also the most skillful as well.

What hasn't changed in the last half a century or more though is the cynical edge they bring to the game, whether it be Andy Haden diving out of a line out, Sean Fitzpatrick "accidentally" blocking a pass as he came back from an offside position or the brutal and, almost certainly, pre-planned assault on Brian O'Driscoll, the Lions best player, in the first minute of the test series when they toured there, New Zealand can always be relied on to bend the rules as far as they can - they get away with stuff that no one else would and, although I don't see it happening, I'd love the Lions to beat them.

[Majorblue]

I was always something of a grudging admirer of the All Blacks because, when I was growing up they relied on brute force rather than skill to exert their dominance. However, something changed around thirty years ago and they started playing a far more watchable brand of running rugby - more often than not they were the best team, but they were also the most skillful as well.

What hasn't changed in the last half a century or more though is the cynical edge they bring to the game, whether it be Andy Haden diving out of a line out, Sean Fitzpatrick "accidentally" blocking a pass as he came back from an offside position or the brutal and, almost certainly, pre-planned assault on Brian O'Driscoll, the Lions best player, in the first minute of the test series when they toured there, New Zealand can always be relied on to bend the rules as far as they can - they get away with stuff that no one else would and, although I don't see it happening, I'd love the Lions to beat them.

Outside of blind hope I can't see anything other than a horrible series for the Lions.
The schedule is something I cannot believe that the Lions agreed too, the tactics to be used are unlikely to work and they are up against the best team on the planet by a country mile.
How the Lions manage the injuries is likely to be the key to how bad it gets so the call up of a not fully fit and woefully out of form Haskell is a worry.
I can only see a clean sweep by the AB's in the test series and the matches against the provincial sides may throw up too many victories either.
The only saving grace is that the hosts have injury concerns but then again their replacements are none too shabby.

[sneggyblubird]

The 2005 lions tour was nothing more than a jolly for the English 2003 world cup winning side.Most of them were sadly past their best by then.No mistake,this is the strongest Lions squad I can remember. Strength in depth and they'll need it but I take the All Blacks to edge the series.

[El Gwapo]

Just listened to Radio 5 programme on the tour very interesting. Im sure there will be a podcast of it shortly

[old blue]

What changed the All Blacks Bob was the 71 Lions tour, they saw what the Lions did by playing a more expansive game with talented backs. Trouble is though, they have produced the full package since but as you say haven't lost that cynical edge, all the instances you have mentioned and Bradley Davies being punched from behind in recent times, thing is though they always get away it

I was always something of a grudging admirer of the All Blacks because, when I was growing up they relied on brute force rather than skill to exert their dominance. However, something changed around thirty years ago and they started playing a far more watchable brand of running rugby - more often than not they were the best team, but they were also the most skillful as well.

What hasn't changed in the last half a century or more though is the cynical edge they bring to the game, whether it be Andy Haden diving out of a line out, Sean Fitzpatrick "accidentally" blocking a pass as he came back from an offside position or the brutal and, almost certainly, pre-planned assault on Brian O'Driscoll, the Lions best player, in the first minute of the test series when they toured there, New Zealand can always be relied on to bend the rules as far as they can - they get away with stuff that no one else would and, although I don't see it happening, I'd love the Lions to beat them.

[LordKenwyne]

Just listened to Radio 5 programme on the tour very interesting. Im sure there will be a podcast of it shortly

Ye it was good.

Desktop version:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08rtgkg

[Arfur Europe]

Ye it was good.

Desktop version:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08rtgkg

Is that 'How Not To Win A Lions Tour'? I was waiting for that but had got to my hotel by then.

I hear old Clive Woodentop is still going about saying he got everything right that tour and how it should be the template for future ones

[LordKenwyne]

Is that 'How Not To Win A Lions Tour'? I was waiting for that but had got to my hotel by then.

I hear old Clive Woodentop is still going about saying he got everything right that tour and how it should be the template for future ones

Ye exactly that

He said they "could no more as coaches" at one point.

Then the presenter went through everything at the end that people saw as being wrong, he said he'd change nothing.

And taking alastair campbell was one of his best decisions. Even though though one of the main irish players said he wanted to beat him up after saying the players should try harder

Some of the players said it was a horrible atmosphere in the group.

Paul O'connell would go to a book shop and eat cakes in the afternoons. Smoking on his balcony as well as he said he was pretty lonely.

Gareth Thomas had a good time though It sounds like he'd have a good time in solitary confinement.

[Watcliff]

zzzzzz Fekin minority sport crap zzzzzzzzzz

[LordKenwyne]

zzzzzz Fekin minority sport crap zzzzzzzzzz

Ok by that theory Plaid should get approximately zero coverage as they're a tiny speck of dust in UK politics.

zzzzzzzz minority fekin nothing political party crap zzzzzzzzzz

[Watcliff]

Ok by that theory Plaid should get approximately zero coverage as they're a tiny speck of dust in UK politics.

zzzzzzzz minority fekin nothing political party crap zzzzzzzzzz

[LordKenwyne]

As if your attempts at being funny are clever.

I suppose someone will find it funny. Like the way 5 year olds giggle at farting. "Hur dur dur durr"

[Watcliff]

As if your attempts at being funny are clever.

I suppose someone will find it funny. Like the way 5 year olds giggle at farting. "Hur dur dur durr"

oh dear

[J R Hartley]

zzzzzz Fekin minority sport crap zzzzzzzzzz

[Pearcey3]

Can't get too excited by the Lions tour. I just hope the Welsh boys come home injury free

[Tandy]

No easy games but this Crusaders team will take some beating.
5 Welsh players in the starting line up.

[Nick]

Can't get too excited by the Lions tour. I just hope the Welsh boys come home injury free

I'm hoping all of the Lions come home injury free.

[Heathblue]

No tries but a good hard fought game, Hogg will be a loss

[surge]

How many players will come back injured? One tweet earlier said this tour was the equilavent of playing 3 international tests a week.

Important win for lions fans but injuries and lack of tries a concern.

[Packerman]

Farrell, Faletau and Murray were outstanding, Hogg unlucky but not convinced by his defence anyway, ,lots of test starters played today

[the other bob wilson]

Not seen anything of the tour yet and, worse, I've not heard any of it either - I take it I'm going to have to start listening to Talkshite if I want to?

That's a good and much needed win today, but just two tries scored in three games has an ominous ring to it - are we as bad in attack as that stat suggests?