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Thread: A Bad Night for Labour

  1. #1

    A Bad Night for Labour

    Theresa May did everything she could - bar painting 'vote for Labour' on her battlebus - to ensure the Tories would lose the election, and Jeremy Corbyn and Labour would win.

    In the end, if a thousand or so votes went the other way she would have had an overall majority.

    In truth Labour were probably no more than 10% behind when she called the election. If they were ever going to win an election this is the one they should have. Corbyn promised free sweets for everyone and May depressed everyone.

    Corbyn is now firmly entrenched as the Labour leader and will strengthen his leadership with more like-minded people around him. I suspect that when the next election comes around, he won't be making so many promises, and there will be some who voted for him this time who will hesitate when they think he actually might run the Country. Also, he won't have the completely useless Theresa May as a foe..

  2. #2

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    A while back I tongue in cheek suggested this was a Tory plot to hand back to Labour the total car crash situation they inherited when Brown was defeated. It seems May was very badly advised. The problems around mental health social care still exist though.

    Maybe we should go looking for Corbyn's magic money tree - more change of find WMD in my opinion.
    We all know you are up for buying more bombs while there are increasing numbers of homeless and hungry people on the streets.

  3. #3

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    Theresa May did everything she could - bar painting 'vote for Labour' on her battlebus - to ensure the Tories would lose the election, and Jeremy Corbyn and Labour would win.

    In the end, if a thousand or so votes went the other way she would have had an overall majority.

    In truth Labour were probably no more than 10% behind when she called the election. If they were ever going to win an election this is the one they should have. Corbyn promised free sweets for everyone and May depressed everyone.

    Corbyn is now firmly entrenched as the Labour leader and will strengthen his leadership with more like-minded people around him. I suspect that when the next election comes around, he won't be making so many promises, and there will be some who voted for him this time who will hesitate when they think he actually might run the Country. Also, he won't have the completely useless Theresa May as a foe..
    Talk about hindsight!

    I reckon a few people didn't vote Corbyn because Murdoch kept telling them he had no chance, and that he was a liability.

    Look at it now. May has had two aides resign, she has had to go begging to Hammond to remain as Chancellor, MPs on her own side are demanding that she goes for a Soft Brexit, and MPs on her own side are protesting at the new friendship with DUP.

    If May wanted to lose the election, she did. So why is she trying to form a Government? This was an election to extend May's mandate to get Brexit done and dusted.

    What we have now is a carcrash. Because the Tories haven't got a majority, the Lords can vote on everything in their manifesto. Each and every Brexit vote in Parliament will be lost whilst the set up is as it is.

    If May really wanted to lose the election, then she could have. If ever there were an election to lose, this is the one they should have lost.

  4. #4

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    A while back I tongue in cheek suggested this was a Tory plot to hand back to Labour the total car crash situation they inherited when Brown was defeated. It seems May was very badly advised. The problems around mental health social care still exist though.

    Maybe we should go looking for Corbyn's magic money tree - more change of find WMD in my opinion.
    Reading your posts is like watching Richard Hammond drive round a corner.

    Mr 'Not a Tory' who parrots their campaign phrases in every post he makes.

  5. #5

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Reading your posts is like watching Richard Hammond drive round a corner.

    Mr 'Not a Tory' who parrots their campaign phrases in every post he makes.
    Feedy always claimed he wasn't a Tory, whilst backing everything they said and did. Why is he so embarrassed?

  6. #6

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Survation nailed the General Election with their opinion poll. They now show Labour six points ahead of the Tories. Come on then May you want your majority in Parliament so call another election. Or are you too scared to?

  7. #7

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Oh the Tories were actually trying to lose, righty ho.

  8. #8

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    Theresa May did everything she could - bar painting 'vote for Labour' on her battlebus - to ensure the Tories would lose the election, and Jeremy Corbyn and Labour would win.

    In the end, if a thousand or so votes went the other way she would have had an overall majority.

    In truth Labour were probably no more than 10% behind when she called the election. If they were ever going to win an election this is the one they should have. Corbyn promised free sweets for everyone and May depressed everyone.

    Corbyn is now firmly entrenched as the Labour leader and will strengthen his leadership with more like-minded people around him. I suspect that when the next election comes around, he won't be making so many promises, and there will be some who voted for him this time who will hesitate when they think he actually might run the Country. Also, he won't have the completely useless Theresa May as a foe..
    I think you could definitely argue that Labour were the moral winners of the election, but to try and claim it went further than that, as some in the party are trying to, seems ludicrous to me.

    Yet, I've been feeling much better about life since it became clear that the party which, I was surprised to discover, I was so much more solidly behind than I ever thought I would be when the election was called, was going to be able to deny an arrogant and totally over hyped Government the overall majority they took for granted - it may not be an election win for Labour, but it seems to me to be the next best thing.

    I take your point to a degree about an opportunity wasted for Labour, but would say that where the party were just two months ago needs to be taken into account. They were perceived as a shambles and their leader was a joke - only a few weeks earlier, for the first time in ages, the governing party had won a seat from the opposition in a by election and a few weeks into the campaign Labour were also rans in a set of council and mayoral elections amid polls claiming that the Conservatives were the most popular party in Wales.

    I'm told print journalism is on the way out and that mainstream television channels are not as influential as they once were. Maybe that is true, but I still say that to most of my generation, and probably the one that came after us, the mainstream media is the place you go to for your fill of news and opinion forming matter and, certainly when it comes to newspapers, the Labour party have always been reported in a negative manner by the majority of them.

    However, since Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader, a couple of papers in particular have treated him shamefully (having said on here a few weeks ago that the BBC were neutral in their coverage of politics, I was also struck by the way, representatives of the Conservative party seemed to be given an easier ride when being questioned than those of the Labour party were) and I find it impossible to believe that someone of a certain age who buys the Mail or the Sun every day could not be influenced to some degree by the constant stream of negativity regarding the Labour party that has been directed at them for years.

    I refuse to have anything to do with either of those two rags, but, like so many others, I took it all in regarding the way Labour's leader was portrayed in the media. I told everyone who'd listen that Corbyn was useless, a complete liability and those in the PLP who wanted him out were right - the only good thing about the huge Tory majority come June 9 was that Corbyn would have to resign.

    Well, once the broadcast media were duty bound to present Jeremy Corbyn in a different way during the election campaign, it became clear that he didn't really fit the description I and others had lazily applied to him - he wasn't perfect, but he had a lot more going for him than we expected and, best of all, he came across as someone you could have an "ordinary" conversation with.

    To many of my age or older, he remained the "marxist" they thought he was when they first came across him nearly forty years ago, but to a generation derided as "snowflakes" by their elders, but not betters, he was someone who offered an alternative to the way things have been since they were old enough to start forming political opinions.

    It seems that not being able to remember a time when the so called mainstream media were all powerful and living in a world where you get to talk, read and learn about life online gives you the intelligence to take people, and political parties, at face value and not become victims of the perceptions and propaganda forced upon them by the many elements of the mainstream media. Finally, it seems we have a generation of people able to see the Mail and the Sun for the comics/gossip magazines they've become.

    When you reach a certain age, you get used to seeing the radicalism, idealism and ability to cut through the crap of youth being replaced by the cynicism, negativity and "realism" of what we take as representing maturity and experience. However, when you consider that so many of those most responsible for turning this country into such a joyless, intolerant, self serving and dispiriting place in recent years come from the generation that rebelled against the grey world of post war Britain they grew up in, the generation responsible for the "summer of love" fifty years ago and the anti Vietnam war demonstrations at Grosvenor Square in 1968, you have to question whether it is us old fogeys who've got things right or the ones who saw something in Jeremy Corbyn that we couldn't?

    Right up to that exit poll at 10pm on polling day, I thought I knew it all when it came to modern day British politics - "strength and stability" (as represented by a party whose reputation as a safe of hands pair of hands, well versed in the "real world" is completely at odds with what they have actually done in the past seven years) would come out on top again, but they didn't and, while Labour didn't win, the Conservatives, most assuredly, did not either.

    I still think the world of June 2017 is, possibly, the most dangerous one of my lifetime, but, suddenly, I see some hope for this country. This isn't solely down to the Labour party by any means, but they have played a full part in showing that things don't have to be as they seemed. We don't have to go into the Brexit negotiations led by a "bloody difficult", and deeply flawed, woman in charge of a party determined to adopt an adversarial approach, there is another way of doing business and, unless the Tories heed this, we are soon going to have a Labour Government, probably led by Jeremy Corbyn.

  9. #9

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Oh the Tories were actually trying to lose, righty ho.
    Firkin 'ell not even Gluey would go that far

  10. #10

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour


  11. #11

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Great post Paul. What needs to be appreciated is that the youth have no need to buy newspapers.We know newspaper sales are in steep decline so dinosaurs like Murdoch and Dacre are on their way out.

    My 18 year old son called a hung Parliament weeks ago. He is highly engaged and was telling me of the huge numbers of young people on social media who were voting Labour.

    I would argue that the election was not particularly good for Labour but a triumph for a man the media tried to destroy.

  12. #12

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Great post Paul. What needs to be appreciated is that the youth have no need to buy newspapers.We know newspaper sales are in steep decline so dinosaurs like Murdoch and Dacre are on their way out.

    My 18 year old son called a hung Parliament weeks ago. He is highly engaged and was telling me of the huge numbers of young people on social media who were voting Labour.

    I would argue that the election was not particularly good for Labour but a triumph for a man the media tried to destroy.
    The mainstream media are a propaganda arm of the establishment. I've been saying it for ages, and finally it is becoming obvious to the masses.

  13. #13

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Labour have got the away goal.

  14. #14

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    The mainstream media are a propaganda arm of the establishment. I've been saying it for ages, and finally it is becoming obvious to the masses.
    legend and a wanker

  15. #15

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    legend and a wanker
    I like you more when you've had a few drinks, when you're sober you are a right tw@t

  16. #16

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    I like you more when you've had a few drinks, when you're sober you are a right tw@t
    where as you're a tw@t drunk or sober

  17. #17

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Packerman View Post
    where as you're a tw@t drunk or sober
    Modified Winston Churchill

  18. #18

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Modified Winston Churchill
    indeed

  19. #19

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    Talk about hindsight!

    I reckon a few people didn't vote Corbyn because Murdoch kept telling them he had no chance, and that he was a liability.

    Look at it now. May has had two aides resign, she has had to go begging to Hammond to remain as Chancellor, MPs on her own side are demanding that she goes for a Soft Brexit, and MPs on her own side are protesting at the new friendship with DUP.

    If May wanted to lose the election, she did. So why is she trying to form a Government? This was an election to extend May's mandate to get Brexit done and dusted.

    What we have now is a carcrash. Because the Tories haven't got a majority, the Lords can vote on everything in their manifesto. Each and every Brexit vote in Parliament will be lost whilst the set up is as it is.

    If May really wanted to lose the election, then she could have. If ever there were an election to lose, this is the one they should have lost.
    Maybe the plan is to stay in Europe with freedom of movement , as that's is what will happen if everything is opposed
    ,who will then get the blame for no exit ??????

  20. #20

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    "The mainstream media are a propaganda arm of the establishment. I've been saying it for ages, and finally it is becoming obvious to the masses."

    Interesting figures today Mr Non Voter - in terms of Momentum's video campaign , social media strategy. They are doing to social media what Murdoch has been doing to the printed press. They are in the same place as far as that is concerned.
    Pot , kettle , black 😑

  21. #21

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Re TOBW's and other posts, just 3 points I'd like to make. Firstly, to continue to demonize people who read the Daily Mail shows a complete lack of tolerance and respect for other people's views. The fact that it outstrips every other newspaper is evidence enough that people have alternate views to yours.
    Secondly, the surge of 'young people' voting for their 21st Che Guevara was down to a couple of key points - simple, one sentence soundbites with no real depth of thought, which is just how most of our students learn things nowadays, and Corbyn's promise to end tuition fees and refund those who have already paid.
    Which is my 3rd point. Will Corbyn be repeating these promises next time round when he thinks he may actually get into office ?

  22. #22

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    A Tory accusing other parties of simple one sentence soundbites, my god now I've seen it all.

  23. #23

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    Re TOBW's and other posts, just 3 points I'd like to make. Firstly, to continue to demonize people who read the Daily Mail shows a complete lack of tolerance and respect for other people's views. The fact that it outstrips every other newspaper is evidence enough that people have alternate views to yours.
    Secondly, the surge of 'young people' voting for their 21st Che Guevara was down to a couple of key points - simple, one sentence soundbites with no real depth of thought, which is just how most of our students learn things nowadays, and Corbyn's promise to end tuition fees and refund those who have already paid.
    Which is my 3rd point. Will Corbyn be repeating these promises next time round when he thinks he may actually get into office ?
    I don't think I demonized Daily Mail readers, I demonized the Daily Mail - I think it's a rag, but I know people who read it and I'd hardly call them bigots. Nevertheless, 13 pages of anti Corbyn ranting on the Wednesday before polling day was complete and utter overkill and it would appear that, finally, people are treating it with the contempt it deserves.

    At least Corbyn had "one sentence soundbites", that's quite a few words more than our strong and stable leader could manage .

    How condescending is that about "young people" - their opinions, no matter how they are formed and what they are, are just as valid as yours and mine.

    As for your third point, we're not going to be in a position to know the answer to your question for some time it seems because the Government which was so eager to have an unnecessary election back in April are now too frit (to quote Maggie Thatcher) to have another one.

  24. #24

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    Secondly, the surge of 'young people' voting for their 21st Che Guevara was down to a couple of key points - simple, one sentence soundbites with no real depth of thought, which is just how most of our students learn things nowadays, and Corbyn's promise to end tuition fees and refund those who have already paid.
    Worth noting that the people to benefit from tuition fee abolition are, to a fair extent, not able to vote yet, and there was no plan to refund those who have already paid (I dearly wish there was). So your analysis of why 'young people' voted labour is quite certainly wrong.

  25. #25

    Re: A Bad Night for Labour

    Oakeshott said on QT that she doesn't think the press should be raking over the past when it comes to the DUP. Either she is tremendously cynical or the irony was seemingly lost on her.

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