Lions

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

[the other bob wilson]

Thanks for posting that - I wonder if the try would have been disallowed by the video ref for a forward pass by Quinnell if it had been scored today?

[surge]

Maybe it's me, but the autumn internationals bore me rigid and I think if they were replaced once every four years by a Lions series, it would be a huge success - I'm not sure rotating home and away would work because the Lions only tour South Africa, Australia and New Zealand once every twelve years as it is.

The best game of rugby I've seen bar none was in 1972 when the Barbarians beat the All Blacks in Cardiff after having won a four match series 2-1 over there six months earlier. Usually, Baabaa's match against touring sides were considered something of a jolly with a smattering of players from outside the British Isles being included, but this game was treated very much as a fifth test match with the home side being made up of British players - it was fantastic to see the British side win pretty convincingly by playing a typical Baabaa's style of rugby.

I wouldn't expect a modern Lions v New Zealand game played in this country to reproduce the thrills and spills of forty five years ago, but there'd be far more intensity and meaning to the games than, say, yet another Wales v Australia autumn international at a two thirds full Millennium Stadium.

As for today's game, I'd say that for the second consecutive Saturday the All Blacks must be thinking "how do we not win that?" - the only time I thought we might score a try ended up with Owen Farrell (immaculate with his place kicking, but very patchy otherwise) throwing an interception pass which had Lions man of the series Johnathan Davies performing miracles to prevent a score at the other end of the pitch.

Nevertheless, if the Lions needed luck to achieve the result they did, they certainly earned it and I hope and trust any flatness they may feel after not winning the series will soon disappear when what they have done truly sinks in - the All Blacks were strong in the early seventies and it was a terrific achievement by the Lions to go there and win, but when you consider what the modern day Lions were up against, I'd say that a drawn series in 2017 matches the winning one in 1971.

But if you're arguing for excitement over all else are you also calling all cricket test series bar the ashes to be cut to three games and much, much more 20/20? Cricket may be going that way anyway but I don't expect you to be thinking it's the best thing for the game.

Autumn internationals seem to be when we can give new players their chance, despite Wales failing to do that under gatland, so if replaced by a series where only the top 5 Welsh players - one now having played in 9 lions' test in a row and should not be in the next tour at all - get a game and no Scot this key component of equal part development and competition is lost. Even if they are often dull and expensive affairs in Wales which don't fulfill their purpose.

Would the lions be as good if done at home and as regularly as the autumn internationals? I don't think so*. Would the summer tour be treated more seriously if lions usurped the autumn series? Possibly.

*However, having read your post again, see you're calling for it every four years. Half this point no longer makes sense, but I think I'd rather no autumn internationals once every four years rather than a home lions series.

[the other bob wilson]

But if you're arguing for excitement over all else are you also calling all cricket test series bar the ashes to be cut to three games and much, much more 20/20? Cricket may be going that way anyway but I don't expect you to be thinking it's the best thing for the game.

Autumn internationals seem to be when we can give new players their chance, despite Wales failing to do that under gatland, so if replaced by a series where only the top 5 Welsh players - one now having played in 9 lions' test in a row and should not be in the next tour at all - get a game and no Scot this key component of equal part development and competition is lost. Even if they are often dull and expensive affairs in Wales which don't fulfill their purpose.

Would the lions be as good if done at home and as regularly as the autumn internationals? I don't think so. Would the summer tour be treated more seriously if lions usurped the autumn series? Possibly.

Think you are missing that I'm only talking about one set of autumn internationals in every four - there'd still be plenty of time for the sort of experimentation you mention.

[surge]

My edit and your reply seems to have crossed in the post. Think we both despair at recent Welsh autumn internationals and differ on whether we agree a home lions series (even just once every four years) is the tweak needed.

[J R Hartley]

Not a rugby fan by any stretch but thoroughly enjoyed today's game.
New Zealand not as clinical as All Black teams of the past and should be kicking themselves they didn't win that easily today. Credit to the Lions for getting more of a grip onthe game 2nd half but really could have been 15-20 points down at HT.

Bizarre ending mind, seeing as there was a trophy to win I think it should have gone to extra time.

On a side note I think Sam Warburton is a terrific professional sportsman and a real credit to our country.

That school in Whitchurch should be proud that they have not only produced 2 world class sportsman but both modest and humble young men.

[Peajay]

Not a rugby fan by any stretch but thoroughly enjoyed today's game.
New Zealand not as clinical as All Black teams of the past and should be kicking themselves they didn't win that easily today. Credit to the Lions for getting more of a grip onthe game 2nd half but really could have been 15-20 points down at HT.

Bizarre ending mind, seeing as there was a trophy to win I think it should have gone to extra time.

On a side note I think Sam Warburton is a terrific professional sportsman and a real credit to our country.

That school in Whitchurch should be proud that they have not only produced 2 world class sportsman but both modest and humble young men.

What about Geraint ?

[MacAdder]

My edit and your reply seems to have crossed in the post. Think we both despair at recent Welsh autumn internationals and differ on whether we agree a home lions series (even just once every four years) is the tweak needed.

Again, I'm not a huge fan of the game but the Lions tour has a tradition and an aura about it which is rather unique. This IMO should not be tampered with.

As for the Autumn internationals, they are a curtain raiser for the 6 nations series and a chance to bring the teams together and prepare, possibly blood some younger players.
They provide a chance to see southern hemisphere top players perform.
Not forgetting that they are big money generators so are here to stay.
I think the point about the stadia not being full for these games can in part be put down to the prices of tickets.

Thoroughly enjoyed the Lions series and although they all seemed a bit flat, the players and coaches must take a lot of credit, although NZ were the better team overrall.
The knives were being sharpened from certain quarters of the media and I reckon Gatland will be breathing a huge sigh of relief.

[bluethrough]

Sam's unbeaten Lions captaincy over 2 tours will take some beating

[the other bob wilson]

Nice response by Gatland to some of the criticism he received during the series.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40544066

Fair play to him, I moan every year about the "Warrenball" Wales play, but he must be the Lion's most successful coach ever now and the 2013 and 2017 sides have succeeded through doing more than just playing that way.

[Rhiw-Blue]

Nice response by Gatland to some of the criticism he received during the series.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40544066

Fair play to him, I moan every year about the "Warrenball" Wales play, but he must be the Lion's most successful coach ever now and the 2013 and 2017 sides have succeeded through doing more than just playing that way.

I think they had a decent tour despite of him not because of him

[Nick]

What about Geraint ?

Indeed!

Three world class athletes.

[surge]

I think they had a decent tour despite of him not because of him

How do you back that up? This tour was personal for him so expect him to be involved in all things.

[Nick]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40544066

Well done Gatland! Hope they can take it as well as they dish it out.

[J R Hartley]

What about Geraint ?

Who?

[J R Hartley]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40544066

Well done Gatland! Hope they can take it as well as they dish it out.

Grow up. It's not about you Warren.

[William Treseder]

Not sure if read the game wrong, but I thought the Lions cheated themselves and the thousands of fans who travelled over.
Yesterday must have been the poorest AB team I've seen in a long time and although the Lions squad wasnt full of stars, I though they failed to kick on and take advantage of a very rare opportunity.
They seemed to invite wave after wave of attack, without having the confidence to really get into them and run them ragged.

[Sgt. Pepper]

Not sure if read the game wrong, but I thought the Lions cheated themselves and the thousands of fans who travelled over.
Yesterday must have been the poorest AB team I've seen in a long time and although the Lions squad wasnt full of stars, I though they failed to kick on and take advantage of a very rare opportunity.
They seemed to invite wave after wave of attack, without having the confidence to really get into them and run them ragged.

I cannot understand what you mean by 'cheated their fans'.

[William Treseder]

I cannot understand what you mean by 'cheated their fans'.

Simple. They had the game at their mercy imo and failed to grasp it, with lack of belief and wrong tactics. Maybe I should have said cheated the moment.

[J R Hartley]

Simple. They had the game at their mercy imo and failed to grasp it, with lack of belief eir and wrong tactics. Maybe I should have said cheated the moment.

Yeah, you must have watched the wrong game.

[Dr Lecter]

Simple. They had the game at their mercy imo and failed to grasp it, with lack of belief and wrong tactics. Maybe I should have said cheated the moment.

Would you say that to their faces instead of hiding anonymously behind your keyboard?

I bet your name's not even William.

[Heathblue]

Not sure if read the game wrong, but I thought the Lions cheated themselves and the thousands of fans who travelled over.
Yesterday must have been the poorest AB team I've seen in a long time and although the Lions squad wasnt full of stars, I though they failed to kick on and take advantage of a very rare opportunity.
They seemed to invite wave after wave of attack, without having the confidence to really get into them and run them ragged.

Double world champions, unbeaten at Eden park for how long?, i didn't think it was a particularly good lions performance, they certainly seemed to lack the want to take it to the AB's, and it was a missed opportunity, but to get it to the level they did after a grueling 5 week schedule I thought a very good achievement, however, they will not go down in folklaw as the 1971 Lions. I only know one fan who travelled, i'll be interested to get his take on the tour when I see him next.

[jamieccfc]

They was very fortunate to get away with a draw New Zealand should've had 2 penalties at the end. How can you say they cheated the fans/moment if they played an open and expansive game they Would've been smashed

[the other bob wilson]

They was very fortunate to get away with a draw New Zealand should've had 2 penalties at the end. How can you say they cheated the fans/moment if they played an open and expansive game they Would've been smashed

I thought the Lions played the better running rugby in the first two tests, but they struggled in that department yesterday.

[jamieccfc]

I thought the Lions played the better running rugby in the first two tests, but they struggled in that department yesterday.

The second test yes but that was largely due to nz being a man down for 3 quarters of the game what the lions did do in the 2nd and 3rd test was win more of the breakdown which stopped nz having quick ball