Gwent records the biggest increase in religious and racial hate crimes since Referendum

[Feedback]

Because of the connotations and context of the use of the word, it has been reclaimed by black people and has a different meaning in that sense, unfortunatley it is still a slur and comes across that way when used by anyone else. There are thousands of articles that cover it a lot more succinctly than I ever could.

It's the same reason south park can get away with anti semitic characters wihtout getting grief. It isn't just the N word there are loads of examples of groups taking slurs and reclaiming them, it doesn't mean they stop being slurs when used by others though.

you reference connotation. Here's a point. Whilst the MP should have known better, I certainly don't think her intended use was racist, given the point she tried to make. however, there is also the point she might just might be a closet racist and instead of using more appropriate less offensive terms, she chose one which she knew may upset.

[Feedback]

You haven't been victim of racism either though have you.

So how can you comment on it?. We can't put ourselves in the shoes of black people in America and Western countries.

I think this is where that whole annoying idea of "white privilege" comes from. You are complaining of a lack of equality between white and black people, where white people are the victims Can you see how ridiculous this looks?.

Just because you haven't been racist doesn't me you can go around shouting N***** from the roof tops as that would mean equality.

Why do you care anyway?. Black people have been the victims of this word. Why do you want to have the freedom to use it? Why?.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0d5d9049eef86

And the links in the article

I've been the victim of bigotry (I don't call it racism as I can't see how the same race can be 'racist'). I have also been on the end of jokes where some may take offence. The two are different and need to be treated as such.

[LordKenwyne]

And you still haven't answered the question, instead you've just resorted to telling me how I'm "whining" and my "opinion is crap" rather than just answer it.

And how on earth is it somehow bad of me to say "I'm white and have done nothing wrong"?

Read that article. They are requesting you don't say it. Not beating the shit into you if you say it.

You think you should have unrestrained right to say whatever you want because you, personally, have done nothing wrong. White people using it in the past has led it to have the connotations that it has. You didn't cause that, but you understand what those connotations are. So, I think it would be fair to ask you to not use it?.

My replies have answered your question multiply times by the way. The reasons why black people use it cover why white people should probably not

Would you be happy for me to abuse your family with whatever wordage I felt like?.

[Feedback]

White people can be victims of racism but very rarely are, especially throughout history. Racism against white people is obviously bad but surely you can see why it often isn't as severe as racism against black people? If someone called you a white bastard on your way to work today would it really bother you that much? You'd think the guy was a dick but you wouldn't really mind I'm sure.

The reason is white people have never been opressed throughout history for being white, white people weren't likely to be used as slaves in the western world, white people aren't less likely to get a job in the western world because of the colour of their skin. Unfortunalety throughout history racism against black people has been often and severe and still exists in different forms today.

tell that to 6m jews.

you appear to be another individual who doesn't appreciate it was Africans enslaving Africans and selling them into bondage. It wasn't the European doing the dirty work. No group of people come out of this episode with a clear conscience.

[Croesy Blue]

you reference connotation. Here's a point. Whilst the MP should have known better, I certainly don't think her intended use was racist, given the point she tried to make. however, there is also the point she might just might be a closet racist and instead of using more appropriate less offensive terms, she chose one which she knew may upset.

I sort of agree she probably didn't mean it in a racist way but the fact is it is still probably the most racist thing you can say and you should probably avoid saying it, especially if you are in a position of power. If either of us said that at work we would more than likely be sacked.

Also there is a reasonable argument that if she's comfortable saying that in public what is she like in private?

[LordKenwyne]

perhaps you are not aware that it was Africans who rounded up their fellow Africans and sold them into bondage. Man has always treated his fellow man with disdain and contempt. Slavery isn't a modern American invention.

Yes I saw a documentary about the arab slave trade the other day. Not that much but I'm not ignorant.

[William Treseder]

My Thoughts on this are quite simple.

White people using the word sound like uneducated idiots.

The same applies for black people.

Spot on Dr.

[Croesy Blue]

tell that to 6m jews

Yes but they weren't opressed because they were white they were opressed by other whites for being jewish, I suppose that's the difference.

Calling a Jew a K*** is as bas as a non black person using the n word in my opinion.

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

My logic, and I suspect the logic of many is simply this.

The word was developed, by white slave owners in the American Southern States, as a derivative of the Spanish word for black. The word continued to be used by white racists in America, and beyond for many users, as an insult to black people.

Now, of course, keen observers of this board will understand that while you are white, you're not American, you don't own a plantation and you're not a racist.

But because people who looked like you, and me, used that term in such a pejorative way, then it is inappropriate for us to use it because of the offense it causes. I think it would be inappropriate for whites, asians, southern europeans, native Americans, etc to use it. That's not a definition of racist that I recognise.

Personally, I don't think anyone should use the word, but if anyone can "get away with it" then it would be a black person.

TOBW's sheepshagger analogy isn't perfect, as he himself admitted, but if some wurzel came up to you screaming "you sheepshagging bastard" in your face, chances are he'd get a slap, meanwhile, thousands of us us sing that's "who we are" every week, and that's ok.

I have a vague recollection of you recounting a tale from your stand-up tale where you used that word and it didn't end well. Is that the basis for your stance in this thread?

OK, once again, I do not require an explanation as to why the word is deemed offensive.

I know it is offensive, I know why.

Again, what I am asking, and this is as simple as I can word the question, How is it not racist for my specific race to have its vocabulary limited?

And no, this isn't about the time I used the word in my stand up set. Croesy Blue nailed it earlier in this thread when he said the offensiveness of the word depends on the context.

Here's a bit of wisdom for you, we should decide if the word ****** is offensive depending on the intent of the person using it.

[Croesy Blue]

No one should be born with any greater rights than anyone else. Are present day Africans responsible for their forefathers enslaving parts of their local populace and selling them to the Europeans - no of course not. Are present day Europeans responsible for the actions of their forefathers. Again of course not.

As long as people look to differentiate for whatever reason, racism will exist.

But white people still are born with more rights than black people, especially in the USA.

Even in the uk a black person no matter how educated is two thirds less likely to be given a job than an equally educated white person.

[LordKenwyne]

THANK YOU for putting the point more eloquently than I apparently can.

Yes because defending the use of any term, even a term used for hate crime, would lead to equality.

Everyone agrees with what TISS said. If only the world were as easy and binary as that suggestion.

[Feedback]

Racism in America is alive and well. Nothing to do with the past.

The UK is completely different.

I don't disagree. I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make. Racists come in many forms, you don't have to use the word n*****r or any other crass term to be racist. It is more about how you treat people and how you see them than any words you use.

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

Read that article. They are requesting you don't say it. Not beating the shit into you if you say it.

You think you should have unrestrained right to say whatever you want because you, personally, have done nothing wrong. White people using it in the past has led it to have the connotations that it has. You didn't cause that, but you understand what those connotations are. So, I think it would be fair to ask you to not use it?.

My replies have answered your question multiply times by the way. The reasons why black people use it cover why white people should probably not

Would you be happy for me to abuse your family with whatever wordage I felt like?.

Again, at no point have I said I should have the "unrestrained right to say whatever I want".

The amount of times in this thread you've attributed statements to me falsely, I feel like you're having an argument with someone else completely. In fact, I'm going to stop talking to you now.

[Packerman]

I've been the victim of bigotry (I don't call it racism as I can't see how the same race can be 'racist'). I have also been on the end of jokes where some may take offence. The two are different and need to be treated as such.

stop wearing stupid hats then

[Croesy Blue]

OK, once again, I do not require an explanation as to why the word is deemed offensive.

I know it is offensive, I know why.

Again, what I am asking, and this is as simple as I can word the question, How is it not racist for my specific race to have its vocabulary limited?

And no, this isn't about the time I used the word in my stand up set. Croesy Blue nailed it earlier in this thread when he said the offensiveness of the word depends on the context.

Here's a bit of wisdom for you, we should decide if the word ****** is offensive depending on the intent of the person using it.

But to black people a white person using it always has racist connotations due to the history. I think this is the point we find difficult to understand, I've been to a couple of lectures about it and I always had the same view point as you but I've come to understand I can't understand how a black person feels when a white person uses that word.

[LordKenwyne]

Again, at no point have I said I should have the "unrestrained right to say whatever I want".

The amount of times in this thread you've attributed statements to me falsely, I feel like you're having an argument with someone else completely. In fact, I'm going to stop talking to you now.

So what are you moaning about?.

"Some" Black people request you don't use the term. That fits into the the "restrained right of what you say".

Like if you were in Iran or Turkey and you were calling people Arabs. They'd request you wouldn't.

Again, there is no written law that states the term is banned for white people. They say it regularly. It comes down to personal opinion, like any other use of words. Like the fact you or me would kick off if people were swearing at a family member.

[Feedback]

But white people still are born with more rights than black people, especially in the USA.

Even in the uk a black person no matter how educated is two thirds less likely to be given a job than an equally educated white person.

I don't disagree with you either. I'm also not sure of the point you are trying to make. Their is social injustice - we all know that. Quite a lot of people are left on the scrap heap and told they won't ever amount to much. There is much work to be done, both here, in the UK and in the world in general.

[Croesy Blue]

Is this the most respectful discussion we've ever had on ccmb?

[CardiffIrish2]

In this day and age using a line which could directly be taken from '12 years a Slave' is pretty ****ing stupid.
Even more so when this woman has a a say in all our affairs.

[Feedback]

stop wearing stupid hats then

where is Mrs R's 'you over there'...

[Feedback]

But to black people a white person using it always has racist connotations due to the history. I think this is the point we find difficult to understand, I've been to a couple of lectures about it and I always had the same view point as you but I've come to understand I can't understand how a black person feels when a white person uses that word.

I remember reading that Samuel L Jackson asked one of his co-stars to call him a n****r, so he could get into character. Not sure what film it was (maybe time to kill). I also saw the same actor in another film tell his high school basket ball players under no terms do they use the same word. It is a complex issue

[Croesy Blue]

I don't disagree with you either. I'm also not sure of the point you are trying to make. Their is social injustice - we all know that. Quite a lot of people are left on the scrap heap and told they won't ever amount to much. There is much work to be done, both here, in the UK and in the world in general.

I agree a lot of work needs to be done in the uk, many working class people are treated like absolute shit and are more or less forgotten about.

But we also shouldn't ignore that a black person from the same class statistically has even less chance.

I think the country should be striving to improve the lives of everyone and the equality for all races and sexes.

[the other bob wilson]

Bob

You say ordinary rules don't apply because of a person's skin colour. That is the very definition of racism. I know you don't intend for it to be racist, but when we start treating people differently and allowing them to act differently to each other based solely on skin tone, then we are promulgating race distinction via the backdoor.

Either the word is acceptable to all or none at all.

The way Africans were treated was a crime against humanity, not just a crime against africans. Africans betrayed Africans, Europeans abused that betrayal.

Don't agree with your first paragraph at all because when it comes to the colour of someone's skin, I cannot think of one descriptive or made up word off the top of my head that is definitely used in a complimentary way - it seems the best we can hope for is just to call them by that colour, so white, black and redskin are seen as fairly neutral terms (at least I think they are, but I may be wrong) and I suppose something like Caucasian falls into the same category.

Many other words would be viewed as an insult though by the group the word described and it seems to me that the large majority are names given to dark skinned people by those with paler skins. The n word is unusual in that it is a word that some blacks have no problem with using in certain contexts, It's true that there are very many blacks who disagree with this, but, undoubtedly, we're talking about a word that involves nuances depending on the colour of the skin of the person using it - the reaction by the person the word is directed at can differ greatly depending on those nuances, so we are talking about a word that can be interpreted differently no matter what you claim.

Apparently there are white rap artists who use it, but, from my perspective, any white person using the n word is either using it as an insult (or worse) or is so stupid as not to understand the implications of what they are saying - either way, there can be no legitimate excuse I can think of for a white middle aged or old politician to use it in this day and age.

[Packerman]

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...act=mrc&uact=8

where is Mrs R's 'you over there'...

[Croesy Blue]

I remember reading that Samuel L Jackson asked one of his co-stars to call him a n****r, so he could get into character. Not sure what film it was (maybe time to kill). I also saw the same actor in another film tell his high school basket ball players under no terms do they use the same word. It is a complex issue

It's a very complex issue I agree. I just think it's not too complicated to see why in most situations white people should never say that word because it has negative connotations whilst there are situations for black people where saying it does not have the same negative connotations.