Gwent records the biggest increase in religious and racial hate crimes since Referendum

[the other bob wilson]

It was a toss a coin job whether I put the OP on here, rather than on the politics board. I suppose by using the words "entirely predictable" I could be accused of politicising things, but if you read my message, you can see that it is, in essence, a neutral conveying of the results of a Freedom of Information Act request.

Although we keep on being told that shouldn't think of politics in right v left terms any more, that's still very much how I think of it and I'm pretty sure it always will be. I'd say that, mostly, race and religion hate crimes would be thought of in terms of the political far right, but seeing the problems the Labour party have had with the Jewish community in recent years, the left are not spotless when it comes to intolerance against other races either - so, although I thought there was every chance that the thread may turn political. my opening post was meant to be neutral in right v left terms.

I see one of the contributors we have on here who only ever contributes on one subject took the chance to use the report as an excuse to go on a Muslim bashing jaunt. Eric's fine post largely dealt with that, but I would add a couple of things. First, I accept that some of the crimes that make up the reported increase since the Referendum have to be a response to the actions of some Muslim extremists, but JDerrida misses the point that a portion of the report is taking up by responses to crimes, including murder, committed on EU nationals who I suppose may be Muslims, but are more likely not to be.

The second point I'd make is that in both the Referendum and General Election there is strong evidence that parts of the country which would be termed working class are voting in a particular way. The bigger cities in England and Wales may have tended to vote Remain, but densely populated areas of the North West, North East, West Midlands, Yorkshire and South Wales were solidly Leave areas.

Although the last mentioned stuck with it's Labour roots last month when the choice became party political, Corbyn's mob didn't match their performance in other parts of England in large parts of the other areas I mentioned - the working class are not supporting the swing back to Labour in the numbers I would have expected and my guess is that there are very many people in those areas who feel completely disenfranchised. It's easy to say that they are a bunch of thick racists living out in the sticks, but I don't believe that - there's far more to what's going on than that.

Returning to my use of the words "entirely predictable", the overriding reason why I did note vote Leave was because I did not want to be on the same side as the, I believe, pretty small racist minority that were voting that way. I have always thought that the win for Leave provided an opportunity for these racists to, completely wrongly, believe that their views now represented mainstream public thinking and that they had a licence to commit hate crimes that they hadn't had before.

To those who would like to put the rise in offences down to recent events in London and Manchester, that just won't wash I'm afraid - the killings at Westminster Bridge occurred in late March I believe and so the killings by Muslims in this country have all occurred in the last three months, whereas there are plenty of on line sources that were already reporting rises in race and religious hate crimes in the months immediately following the Leave vote.

Finally, given the way this thread has developed, maybe it would be best to put in on the politics board?

[William Treseder]

I see your point, but as I alluded to earlier, it seemed to get to the stage where most discussions on the main board were a. Not about football and b. Mainly between splott dai and feedback essentially saying "oh no it isn't" "oh yes it is". Sometimes for days on end.

Personally I believe a rarely visited backwater is the best place for that crap, but that's just my opinion. And yes, I know I've been involved in many debates about brexit in particular, but I think most of us find political arguments, well, boring. And it's not like the politics forum is hard to findf you want to discuss that kind of thing.

End of the day, it's up to Mike

Have to say, I agree with the colonel on this. The long winded posts by Feedback and Splott Dai, were easy to avoid, as are any topics you or any other poster are not keen on.
When I log on here, I take a quick look at the topics on the 1st page, and only go into the Ones that grab my attention.
personally, I dislike cricket, so any topic related to it, I avoid like the plague.
I like Rugby union, but I'm always amazed that posters like Organ Morgan, who claims to despise the game, appear in almost every rugby thread on here, telling us how much he despises the game, as if once isn't enough.
I like to discuss certain political topics, but if a thread starts to veer away from the topic (as 99% of any thread on here usually do)then I tend to avoid it.
Splitting the board up was a mistake imo, and has definitely not improved it in any way.

[TH63]

I do the same - look at the front page and if anything interesting was there I'd take a look and comment, if there was nothing interesting I'd do something else. I for one was doing the latter more and more.
I don't think feedy and dai were easy to avoid, giving them their own board to rant on, made them easy to avoid.
Maybe we should have a referendum

[William Treseder]

I do the same - look at the front page and if anything interesting was there I'd take a look and comment, if there was nothing interesting I'd do something else. I for one was doing the latter more and more.
I don't think feedy and dai were easy to avoid, giving them their own board to rant on, made them easy to avoid.
Maybe we should have a referendum

👍 It would probably get hijacked 😂

[LordKenwyne]

Reporting of crimes is becoming far more accepted.

People talk as if racism and bigotry is a modern phenomenon.

Simply imagine if black people, gay people and the religious felt reporting was an easy process decades ago. The figures would be far, far higher.

The UK has never been more socially equal.

If anything the rise in reports is good thing as people are no longer willing to just accept the abuse.

[William Treseder]

Reporting of crimes is becoming far more accepted.

People talk as if racism and bigotry is a modern phenomenon.

Simply imagine if black people, gay people and the religious felt reporting was an easy process decades ago. The figures would be far, far higher.

The UK has never been more socially equal.

If anything the rise in reports is good thing as people are no longer willing to just accept the abuse.

👍

[JDerrida]

Reporting of crimes is becoming far more accepted.

People talk as if racism and bigotry is a modern phenomenon.

Simply imagine if black people, gay people and the religious felt reporting was an easy process decades ago. The figures would be far, far higher.

The UK has never been more socially equal.

If anything the rise in reports is good thing as people are no longer willing to just accept the abuse.

Agreed

[JDerrida]

It was a toss a coin job whether I put the OP on here, rather than on the politics board. I suppose by using the words "entirely predictable" I could be accused of politicising things, but if you read my message, you can see that it is, in essence, a neutral conveying of the results of a Freedom of Information Act request.

Although we keep on being told that shouldn't think of politics in right v left terms any more, that's still very much how I think of it and I'm pretty sure it always will be. I'd say that, mostly, race and religion hate crimes would be thought of in terms of the political far right, but seeing the problems the Labour party have had with the Jewish community in recent years, the left are not spotless when it comes to intolerance against other races either - so, although I thought there was every chance that the thread may turn political. my opening post was meant to be neutral in right v left terms.

I see one of the contributors we have on here who only ever contributes on one subject took the chance to use the report as an excuse to go on a Muslim bashing jaunt. Eric's fine post largely dealt with that, but I would add a couple of things. First, I accept that some of the crimes that make up the reported increase since the Referendum have to be a response to the actions of some Muslim extremists, but JDerrida misses the point that a portion of the report is taking up by responses to crimes, including murder, committed on EU nationals who I suppose may be Muslims, but are more likely not to be.

The second point I'd make is that in both the Referendum and General Election there is strong evidence that parts of the country which would be termed working class are voting in a particular way. The bigger cities in England and Wales may have tended to vote Remain, but densely populated areas of the North West, North East, West Midlands, Yorkshire and South Wales were solidly Leave areas.

Although the last mentioned stuck with it's Labour roots last month when the choice became party political, Corbyn's mob didn't match their performance in other parts of England in large parts of the other areas I mentioned - the working class are not supporting the swing back to Labour in the numbers I would have expected and my guess is that there are very many people in those areas who feel completely disenfranchised. It's easy to say that they are a bunch of thick racists living out in the sticks, but I don't believe that - there's far more to what's going on than that.

Returning to my use of the words "entirely predictable", the overriding reason why I did note vote Leave was because I did not want to be on the same side as the, I believe, pretty small racist minority that were voting that way. I have always thought that the win for Leave provided an opportunity for these racists to, completely wrongly, believe that their views now represented mainstream public thinking and that they had a licence to commit hate crimes that they hadn't had before.

To those who would like to put the rise in offences down to recent events in London and Manchester, that just won't wash I'm afraid - the killings at Westminster Bridge occurred in late March I believe and so the killings by Muslims in this country have all occurred in the last three months, whereas there are plenty of on line sources that were already reporting rises in race and religious hate crimes in the months immediately following the Leave vote.

Finally, given the way this thread has developed, maybe it would be best to put in on the politics board?

The fact that you added the 'entirely predictable', on your own admission you always remain staunchly left and the fact you voted to remain because you didn't want to be associated with some racists and the vast majority who voted to leave who were not racist.
I don't think in any way, you could be neutral. Neutrality is not the first thought when it comes to your politics. Not a criticism, just an obvious observation.
A large percentage of those who voted to Leave were in traditional Labour strongholds.
Are they thick, as some allude to because they voted to leave, or are those who voted to remain thick ? No. It's simply a difference of opinion based on a number of matters, so why the aggression from a number of posters on here, because a number of others have a different opinion.
There are racists living in this country who voted to leave and remain, though I accept the majority of racists would likely vote leave.
That DOES NOT equate in any way that those who voted leave must be racist, like some on here think.
TOBW, you are correct that I didn't address the issue of attacks on Eastern Europeans.
Let me make this clear.
Any attack on anyone whether they be Muslims, Eastern Europeans, Jews, Christians, any other religion, white, black or any other race is UNACCEPTABLE.
I work with a lot of East Europeans and the Rumanians and Poles have a far better work ethic than the indigenous white population.
However, there are some problem people from Eastern Europe, that taints matters for those that come here to work.
The fact that no one, mainstream media - BBC, ITV, Sky along with our PC correct politicians has the guts to actually speak openly about the problem people from Eastern Europe leads to some who see the problem, becoming more disenfranchised which could possibly lead to racist attacks.
Same applies to the significant problems surrounding Islam.
Unless these significant matters are dealt with openly, then it sadly leads to the unheard taking matters into their own hands.
I repeat, I do not condone in any way any attack on anyone.
Dealing with problems has to be dealt with by open adult dialogue.
Regards to reporting hate crimes, if you notice on the headline. It is now racial AND RELIGIOUS hate crime. That surely has a significant impact on reporting numbers.
By the way, does the reporting numbers correlate in any way to the number of convictions.
There has been racism from whites to other colours and religions, equally from blacks to others and from Muslims to others and to a lesser extent from Jews to others.
I don't think that could be said so clearly from Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and other religious minorities.
We need to deal with racism, but we also have to deal with the significant other problems and not continue sweeping them under the carpet.

[LordKenwyne]

People are showing their prejudices online.

The news doing the rounds that fry ups will now rapidly rise in cost.

People laughing saying Leave voters just lost their staple dish.

Rich and poor like fry ups, not just working class people.

[JDerrida]

I am so ashamed to be Welsh when the moronic people of the valleys start going on about " the immigration problem ".

Usually all you see is white faces up there but the morons have bought the racist right wing press views hook , line and sinker.

Decent places like London , Cardiff and Manchester are tolerant and are building a society where everyone counts.

This is the Cardiff way and it sets a good example for the rest of the UK. Racist scum like JDerrida can ferk off back to their holes as far as I'm concerned. Tosser !

BlueWales, you are so wrong on EVERY single paragraph you wrote.
I am from Cardiff, not the Valleys - you seriously have racist views against white people from the valleys - maybe you should be reported, or is it only minorities that can be verbally or physically assaulted?
Since when did Labour voters start listening to right wing press ?
Large numbers in traditional Labour heartlands voted to leave - so it wasn't just right wing voters who wanted to leave the EU. A LOT of Labour voters voted to leave. How does that sit with your left wing sensibilities?
If you listen to people who are a minority in places like City Road, Riverside, Grangetown and Butetown, then you will hear a LOT of major complaints and concerns about certain peoples. However, it will usually go unreported for a variety of reasons and THAT is exactly what needs to be dealt with.
Your Utopian ideal of what you delusionally think Cardiff, London and Manchester are like, are actually in very many ways Dystopian societies.
Racist scum - you're clearly a very sad little individual who really can't have a reasoned debate.

[BlueWales]

I'm so ashamed to be Welsh when moronic Welsh people accuse a whole section of other Welsh people of being thick racists because of where they live.

Labelling people from the valleys as racists because of the actions of a few idiots is on a par with calling all muslims terrorists because of the actions of a few idiots.

If you think there's no racism in places like Cardiff Manchester or London then you need to get out more.

You can't argue with the way the Valleys voted. It's fact. Yes there is some racism in Cardiff and London where cultures rub up against each other. As the Valleys are 95% white why are they so worried about immigrants ?

[BlueWales]

BlueWales, you are so wrong on EVERY single paragraph you wrote.
I am from Cardiff, not the Valleys - you seriously have racist views against white people from the valleys - maybe you should be reported, or is it only minorities that can be verbally or physically assaulted?
Since when did Labour voters start listening to right wing press ?
Large numbers in traditional Labour heartlands voted to leave - so it wasn't just right wing voters who wanted to leave the EU. A LOT of Labour voters voted to leave. How does that sit with your left wing sensibilities?
If you listen to people who are a minority in places like City Road, Riverside, Grangetown and Butetown, then you will hear a LOT of major complaints and concerns about certain peoples. However, it will usually go unreported for a variety of reasons and THAT is exactly what needs to be dealt with.
Your Utopian ideal of what you delusionally think Cardiff, London and Manchester are like, are actually in very many ways Dystopian societies.
Racist scum - you're clearly a very sad little individual who really can't have a reasoned debate.

I can't be bothered to reply to your drivel.

[BlueWales]

Get real there's plenty of recent incidents of intolerance down Cardiff.

A quick search on Google and there's mosques being attacked, Europeans being attacked in the streets.etc

Jeez the Finsbury Park terror attacker lived in Cardiff (Yes I know he was from Somerset originally). Does he not count in this utopia version of Cardiff that you've built in your own head? You said everyone counts?

Tosser

Every post of yours is crap , tosser.

[Feedback]

The only faith being mentioned is Islam as usual.
No mention of faith hatred BY Muslims against Jews or Christians.
No mention of hatred against white people.
It's another propaganda piece to show Muslims as victims.
You have LGBT communities fighting for their rights in this country and demonstrate against Trump, yet many who fight against so called racism against Muslims - Islam is not a race, yet fail to fight against the Islamic views on LGBT, misogyny and FGM.
It's this hypocrisy that is leading some to react very badly towards Muslims.
The government and especially the opposition parties and much of Britain have become cowards, afraid to dare say anything negative about Islam, yet it's ideology and a lot of its preachings are NOT congruent in Western countries.
They push and push their agendas, especially under the headings of freedom of speech - yet we are now having 'our' freedom of speech eroded, and equality of religious expression in a previously Christian country.
IF they TRULY believe in that equality, then why don't they also fight the fight for minority Christians and Jews in Muslim majority countries, where those minorities are truly persecuted.

you're right, the muzzies do absolutely nothing to help christians, especially where Christians face persecution

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/29/christ...dents-6670055/

http://stepfeed.com/these-muslims-he...-in-egypt-6544

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7771126.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7777351.html

I could go on but I think you get the picture. it is there if you look hard enough

[J R Hartley]

You can't argue with the way the Valleys voted. It's fact. Yes there is some racism in Cardiff and London where cultures rub up against each other. As the Valleys are 95% white why are they so worried about immigrants ?

So you can't have white immigrants can you? Tosser

[LordKenwyne]

you're right, the muzzies do absolutely nothing to help christians, especially where Christians face persecution

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/29/christ...dents-6670055/

http://stepfeed.com/these-muslims-he...-in-egypt-6544

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7771126.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7777351.html

I could go on but I think you get the picture. it is there if you look hard enough

It is good a few people do help each other between the faiths but unfortunately

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alon-b..._13652002.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persec...3%A1%27%C3%ADs

etc

There is a reason why the two sects of Islam are entirely dominant in the region. And it isn't down to people finding God every time.

You can find some good eggs but the they aren't the ones that will do the damage.

[Feedback]

Please correct the factual inaccuracies, or is it too difficult for you to actually debate something.

sorry, he meant combat 18, not a18

[Dr Lecter]

You can't argue with the way the Valleys voted. It's fact. Yes there is some racism in Cardiff and London where cultures rub up against each other. As the Valleys are 95% white why are they so worried about immigrants ?

If you think that people who voted leave are racists then there's really no point trying to debate with you.

Have a nice day.

[LordKenwyne]

You can't argue with the way the Valleys voted. It's fact. Yes there is some racism in Cardiff and London where cultures rub up against each other. As the Valleys are 95% white why are they so worried about immigrants ?

More likely it is down to people in the valley's life being worse with not much to lose.

[Croesy Blue]

I come from Blaenau Gwent originally and enjoyed growing up there but I was glad to leave and I'm glad my parents have now moved away too.

I think you probably do get a lot of "racist" attitudes there but I don't think it's because the people are necessarily bad people but you never really see anyone who isn't white, the schools and education standards in a lot of the county is terrible, there are no jobs and a lot of people have very miserable lives.

The papers in this country for the last few years have blamed every problem on the EU and immigrants so is it any surprise these people voted leave and have slightly xenophobic attitudes. It's not like they're interacting with many immigrants so the only place they can get their opinion is from the paper. I think voting leave was the worst decision this country will ever make, it will make us all poorer and lower education standards even further but I can completely see why people from areas like Blaenau gwent voted leave.

[Croesy Blue]

I agree with the colonel the board was more fun when it was mixed. It's nice that we've lost a lot of the conspiracy threads Because we were getting too many for a while but even some of them are good.

Also if feedback and the real Croesy aren't here they'll be much more amicable (still loads of arguing which we all love though)

[TH63]

I agree with the colonel the board was more fun when it was mixed. It's nice that we've lost a lot of the conspiracy threads Because we were getting too many for a while but even some of them are good.

Also if feedback and the real Croesy aren't here they'll be much more amicable (still loads of arguing which we all love though)

Oh I think you'll find that both of them are still here

[the other bob wilson]

The fact that you added the 'entirely predictable', on your own admission you always remain staunchly left and the fact you voted to remain because you didn't want to be associated with some racists and the vast majority who voted to leave who were not racist.
I don't think in any way, you could be neutral. Neutrality is not the first thought when it comes to your politics. Not a criticism, just an obvious observation.
A large percentage of those who voted to Leave were in traditional Labour strongholds.
Are they thick, as some allude to because they voted to leave, or are those who voted to remain thick ? No. It's simply a difference of opinion based on a number of matters, so why the aggression from a number of posters on here, because a number of others have a different opinion.
There are racists living in this country who voted to leave and remain, though I accept the majority of racists would likely vote leave.
That DOES NOT equate in any way that those who voted leave must be racist, like some on here think.
TOBW, you are correct that I didn't address the issue of attacks on Eastern Europeans.
Let me make this clear.
Any attack on anyone whether they be Muslims, Eastern Europeans, Jews, Christians, any other religion, white, black or any other race is UNACCEPTABLE.
I work with a lot of East Europeans and the Rumanians and Poles have a far better work ethic than the indigenous white population.
However, there are some problem people from Eastern Europe, that taints matters for those that come here to work.
The fact that no one, mainstream media - BBC, ITV, Sky along with our PC correct politicians has the guts to actually speak openly about the problem people from Eastern Europe leads to some who see the problem, becoming more disenfranchised which could possibly lead to racist attacks.
Same applies to the significant problems surrounding Islam.
Unless these significant matters are dealt with openly, then it sadly leads to the unheard taking matters into their own hands.
I repeat, I do not condone in any way any attack on anyone.
Dealing with problems has to be dealt with by open adult dialogue.
Regards to reporting hate crimes, if you notice on the headline. It is now racial AND RELIGIOUS hate crime. That surely has a significant impact on reporting numbers.
By the way, does the reporting numbers correlate in any way to the number of convictions.
There has been racism from whites to other colours and religions, equally from blacks to others and from Muslims to others and to a lesser extent from Jews to others.
I don't think that could be said so clearly from Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and other religious minorities.
We need to deal with racism, but we also have to deal with the significant other problems and not continue sweeping them under the carpet.

Reading that, we're not miles apart like I thought we were, more like hundreds of yards! I appreciate you taking the time to type that - thanks .

[Feedback]

Oh I think you'll find that both of them are still here

I thought it was common knowledge that one of them was NinianClarke

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

I thought it was common knowledge that one of them was NinianClarke

No, he's one of lecters accounts.