Saadi has left the building

[thehumblegringo]

Ward signing does seem a bit Revell-like

No chance. Revell was absolute garbage, Ward is a good footballer.

[Eric Cartman]

I agree with the sentiment that, with the limited amount we've seen of both players, Saadi seems the more likely to score goals for us than Ward. However, Warnock sees them in training every day and, based on everything he needs from a player, has decided that Ward is the better option.

I'm generally delighted with what Warnock's achieving so far, so I'm not going to start questioning his judgement based on nothing but a gut feeling. The uncertainty of the overall alchemy in a team is the joy of football and I look forward to Ward proving he had what Warnock was looking for

I definitely trust Warnock's opinion of a players work ethic and it wouldn't be a massive surprise if Saadi just doesn't have it. He gave Ken a chance publicly and he passed with flying colours.

I am clueless when it comes to Ward and basically judging him on numbers alone which don't jump out and the circumstances are similar to revell, 'good hard working lad' from the manager's previous club. I am all for giving him a chance but I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out not to quite cut it.

[thehumblegringo]

I would have liked to have seen a bit more of Saadi but the fact even though some are saying that Warnock hasn't seen much of Saadi, the fact remains that he has seen hell of a lot more than us.
We've only really seen a 20 minute cameo during which he pulled his hamstring after 5 minutes.

Warnock and his backroom staff were privvy to all his games in Belgium too.

I hope we had a decent fee for him and i hope we've learned from past mistakes and put in a sell on clause.

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

No chance. Revell was absolute garbage, Ward is a good footballer.

^^^this

[J R Hartley]

Who is pretending that he has gone to PSG?

Saadi is a striker so not sure why Warnock felt that he was competing with Tomlin for an attacking midfield slot - maybe it was his way of deflecting the fact that he had already paid out £1.6m of a limited transfer budget on another striker. If I was to choose Danny Ward or Saadi then on balance I would go with Saadi based on what I have seen.

I feel that sometimes Warnock is a bit too quick to judge & does not give some players a chance. Emyr Huws is a good example & I think that Saadi is another one. Let's not forget that he was very close to bombing Zohore out based on what he saw in training & now we have a £10m plus striker on our hands. Don't get me wrong, I was very pleased to see Warnock come here & overall feel that he has done a really good job. That said, Warnock is not perfect & should not be beyond criticism.

Spot on. Every word.

Plus Saadi might not have gone to PSG but we ain't exactly Chelsea either.

[Watcliff]

^^^this

****defo*****

[Cleve van Leef]

Maybe he didn't settle off the pitch here in the UK.
Maybe he didn't train particularly well.

There are many reasons players fail at clubs.

I doubt many managers would want to not give an out and out goalscorer chances...

Well he's among many who din't settle or train very well at the Club.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Who is pretending that he has gone to PSG?

Saadi is a striker so not sure why Warnock felt that he was competing with Tomlin for an attacking midfield slot - maybe it was his way of deflecting the fact that he had already paid out £1.6m of a limited transfer budget on another striker. If I was to choose Danny Ward or Saadi then on balance I would go with Saadi based on what I have seen.

I feel that sometimes Warnock is a bit too quick to judge & does not give some players a chance. Emyr Huws is a good example & I think that Saadi is another one. Let's not forget that he was very close to bombing Zohore out based on what he saw in training & now we have a £10m plus striker on our hands. Don't get me wrong, I was very pleased to see Warnock come here & overall feel that he has done a really good job. That said, Warnock is not perfect & should not be beyond criticism.

Tomlin plays the number ten role. Clearly Warnock has a specific view of how he wants to play. His view is Zohore with Tomlin playing off him. His view is that he didn't feel Saadi could play the Zohore role. That's his choice and the comparison is thus clearly between Saadi and Tomlin in Warnock's view. That's the only relevant view.

What have you seen of Saadi? Again, do you seriously believe managers at this club would deliberately fail to pick a striker they believed could get 20 goals a season at Championship level? We've seen little of Saadi at this level, some highlights from a weak Belgian league. Successive managers have seen Saadi, seen him train, seen him off the pitch. For all anyone knows Saadi could very well have not wanted to be here. That happens with transfers.

99% of the fanbase were ready to bomb Zohore out. Ditto Gestede. That's hardly a case of it being a fault of Warnock "being too quick to judge" - it's a case of players taking time for that light bulb to come on ad understand the level they need to play at. Zohore's case, the kick up the arse of being almost out the door worked.

Emyr Huws? Hyped as next great Welsh hope, went to Man City, done very little afterwards even at this level. He's someone who has the ability if not the pace but again that light bulb hasn't gone off. Seems he did decent at Ipswich, well live games I watched with him in he wasn't that great. Hardly the worst, but not really standing out.

Of course Warnock isn't above criticism. Comparing Saadi ( done nothing at this level ) with Ward ( experienced at this level ) when they are different players entirely isn't a great stick to beat him with.

My final point would be that we can't afford to carry players. Saadi would probably be on higher wages than Ward is. If we're going to have those higher paid players, they have to be automatic first teamers, not depth. We can't afford to pay players in the hope they can prove they can step up to this level.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Well he's among many who din't settle or train very well at the Club.

It happens. Saadi is an example of one transfer that didn't work out across several different managers.

[J R Hartley]

It happens. Saadi is an example of one transfer that didn't work out across several different managers.

How didn't he work across several different managers? He was injured under Slade, loaned out without given a chance under Trollope, and not given a chance under Warnock apart from one friendly match where he scored 2 goals.

No 9, No 10 what does it matter? We haven't exactly got many forward options off the bench and Saadi, a goal scorer, would have at least given us that.

And so what if Ward has Championship experience, he's not exactly set the dividision alight, and barely been on the winning team.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

How didn't he work across several different managers? He was injured under Slade, loaned out without given a chance under Trollope, and not given a chance under Warnock apart from one friendly match where he scored 2 goals.

No 9, No 10 what does it matter? We haven't exactly got many forward options off the bench and Saadi, a goal scorer, would have at least given us that.

And so what if Ward has Championship experience, he's not exactly set the dividision alight, and barely been on the winning team.

You say Saadi's a goalscorer. So was Fred, in the same league. Again, who knows what occurs off the pitch? None of these do, this isn't **** with all the ITK experts. Maybe Saadi didn't want to be here.

David Marshall didn't set the division alight with Norwich when they conceded 70 goals the season they relegated. Guess we shouldn't have wasted money on him. Ward looks to me like a signing for depth, nothing more, nothing less.

What's happening is the glorification of a player who did nothing for us, that managers didn't rate. Granted fans hopes are always raised, not had quality strikers since Bothroyd, Chopra and McCormack, but come on...

[J R Hartley]

You say Saadi's a goalscorer. So was Fred, in the same league. Again, who knows what occurs off the pitch? None of these do, this isn't **** with all the ITK experts. Maybe Saadi didn't want to be here.

David Marshall didn't set the division alight with Norwich when they conceded 70 goals the season they relegated. Guess we shouldn't have wasted money on him. Ward looks to me like a signing for depth, nothing more, nothing less.

What's happening is the glorification of a player who did nothing for us, that managers didn't rate. Granted fans hopes are always raised, not had quality strikers since Bothroyd, Chopra and McCormack, but come on...

Did nothing for us because he was never given the chance to.

Danny Ward = another Eoin Doyle. Crap signing.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Did nothing for us because he was never given the chance to.

Danny Ward = another Eoin Doyle. Crap signing.

So the question then is why he wasn't given a chance; again, no manager would reject a 20 goal a striker at this level for no reason.

Doyle was a punt. Didn't pay off. Ward is there for depth - did well in a poor team; 12 goals in a poor side at this level. I know it's a novelty us having a forward who got into double figures... way too early to write him off.

[J R Hartley]

So the question then is why he wasn't given a chance; again, no manager would reject a 20 goal a striker at this level for no reason.

Doyle was a punt. Didn't pay off. Ward is there for depth - did well in a poor team; 12 goals in a poor side at this level. I know it's a novelty us having a forward who got into double figures... way too early to write him off.

who said he's a 20 goal striker?!?! I didn't but given we've got next no options upfront this leaves us very short up top. The guys scored goals wherever he's been, looked like he had something about him and would have surely been a good option to have on the bench and pushing for a first team place should we get an injury to Kenneth.

As for letting him go, this is Cardiff City, the club who managed to sign Javi Guerra and bomb him out after about 5 games, same as Burgstaller and yet gave chances to Alex Revell and Eoin Doyle.

Id be more concerned about his ability if he was given chances and not taken them.

[Alfonso Perez]

Tomlin plays the number ten role. Clearly Warnock has a specific view of how he wants to play. His view is Zohore with Tomlin playing off him. His view is that he didn't feel Saadi could play the Zohore role. That's his choice and the comparison is thus clearly between Saadi and Tomlin in Warnock's view. That's the only relevant view.

What have you seen of Saadi? Again, do you seriously believe managers at this club would deliberately fail to pick a striker they believed could get 20 goals a season at Championship level? We've seen little of Saadi at this level, some highlights from a weak Belgian league. Successive managers have seen Saadi, seen him train, seen him off the pitch. For all anyone knows Saadi could very well have not wanted to be here. That happens with transfers.

99% of the fanbase were ready to bomb Zohore out. Ditto Gestede. That's hardly a case of it being a fault of Warnock "being too quick to judge" - it's a case of players taking time for that light bulb to come on ad understand the level they need to play at. Zohore's case, the kick up the arse of being almost out the door worked.

Emyr Huws? Hyped as next great Welsh hope, went to Man City, done very little afterwards even at this level. He's someone who has the ability if not the pace but again that light bulb hasn't gone off. Seems he did decent at Ipswich, well live games I watched with him in he wasn't that great. Hardly the worst, but not really standing out.

Of course Warnock isn't above criticism. Comparing Saadi ( done nothing at this level ) with Ward ( experienced at this level ) when they are different players entirely isn't a great stick to beat him with.

My final point would be that we can't afford to carry players. Saadi would probably be on higher wages than Ward is. If we're going to have those higher paid players, they have to be automatic first teamers, not depth. We can't afford to pay players in the hope they can prove they can step up to this level.

Are you an ITK expert as either you are making wild assumptions or you seem to know a lot about Warnock's specific views on Saadi, what Saadi earns, what 99% of our fanbase is thinking etc?

Where has Warnock said that he didn't feel that Saadi can play the Zohore role? Why is your view the only relevant one?

The Belgian league has produced many quality players such as Courtois, Hazard, Benteke, Lukaku, Mertens & De Bryne and is ranked 10th (out of 55) in Europe so is not as weak as you think it is.

Successive manager's have not seen Saadi play as has already been pointed out to you.

Emyr Huws did enough at this level to impress Ipswich fans & Mick McCarthy as evidenced by their positive comments about him & their delight when he signed for them. If Warnock gave Huws the same opportunities as McCarthy then maybe your view would be different. Which live games did you watch him play for Ipswich as a matter of interest?

In fairness Ward has not done very much at this level (or League 1) as evidenced by 46 goals in 8 seasons so I am surprised that we shelled out £1.6m for him. He was signed as a striker to increase our goals tally but so far in pre-season he has not been very productive with 0 goals from the 4 games he has been involved in. On the other hand Saadi bagged 2 goals in 1 appearance totalling 45 minutes, which follows on from a successful spell in Belgium where he averaged a goal just over every 2 games. His form prompted a first international cap for Algeria so all in all a very good season for him.

As I said before if I had to choose between them I would go for Saadi & my biggest criticism of Warnock is that he appears to have been too quick to judge Saadi, maybe because he jumped in & signed Ward before he could take a proper look at Saadi. That said I really hope that Ward is a massive success next season although I am not expecting loads of goals based on his past record.

How much did Saadi earn with us compared to Ward? If you don't know why do you think that he 'would probably be on higher wages'?

[ccfc_is_my_life]

who said he's a 20 goal striker?!?! I didn't but given we've got next no options upfront this leaves us very short up top. The guys scored goals wherever he's been, looked like he had something about him and would have surely been a good option to have on the bench and pushing for a first team place should we get an injury to Kenneth.

As for letting him go, this is Cardiff City, the club who managed to sign Javi Guerra and bomb him out after about 5 games, same as Burgstaller and yet gave chances to Alex Revell and Eoin Doyle.

Id be more concerned about his ability if he was given chances and not taken them.

The 20 goal a season striker is in response to others citing his record on loan in Belgium.

He may have looked to have had something about him - plenty have looked good in small cameos, been poor when given longer chances.

Guerra I always thought was an odd signing. 32, never played outside Spain. Just didn't seem a good fit to me. Can't judge his release on purely football reasons, chances are he didn't settle here off the pitch. Burgstaller I thought was average during the pre-season. Revell is imo unfairly maligned - never was a heavy scorer but worked hard. Not our finest signing but put a shift in. Doyle was a cheapish punt that he could translate his scoring form at lower levels into the Championship.

I'd agree we need options for a striker behind Zohore. Saadi didn't strike me as someone who would be an effective like for like with Zohore. Given Fred's non appearance in pre-season, he's probably off soon - body type, he's almost certainly the best like for like replacement for Zohore. Maybe more players need to be shifted out, free up wages for a striker to come in? Who knows, maybe even a Prem loan?

What I'd say is the signings Warnock has made have given us more goals spread out within the team than we had before. Zhore is on fire at the moment but we definitely need to not rely on one guy.

[Arfur Europe]

We don't need Saadi.

We've got Fred.

He is in the cryo-lab in the bowels of the CCS at this moment, being programmed by Bellers to emerge as RoboStriker!

Job done!

That tickled me. I'm gutted Saadi never got his chance here and was excited about him in the side this season, but I do have faith that Warnock knows what he's doing.

Let's see what happens I guess.

[J R Hartley]

The 20 goal a season striker is in response to others citing his record on loan in Belgium.

He may have looked to have had something about him - plenty have looked good in small cameos, been poor when given longer chances.

Guerra I always thought was an odd signing. 32, never played outside Spain. Just didn't seem a good fit to me. Can't judge his release on purely football reasons, chances are he didn't settle here off the pitch. Burgstaller I thought was average during the pre-season. Revell is imo unfairly maligned - never was a heavy scorer but worked hard. Not our finest signing but put a shift in. Doyle was a cheapish punt that he could translate his scoring form at lower levels into the Championship.

I'd agree we need options for a striker behind Zohore. Saadi didn't strike me as someone who would be an effective like for like with Zohore. Given Fred's non appearance in pre-season, he's probably off soon - body type, he's almost certainly the best like for like replacement for Zohore. Maybe more players need to be shifted out, free up wages for a striker to come in? Who knows, maybe even a Prem loan?

What I'd say is the signings Warnock has made have given us more goals spread out within the team than we had before. Zhore is on fire at the moment but we definitely need to not rely on one guy.

Revell is much maligned because he was shit and should never have been playing at this level. Running around like a headless chicken, putting a "shift in" but not actually doing anything doesn't really cut it for me. Give me a laid back striker with a footballing brain like Jay Bothroyd any day.

Burgstaller was the best player up st Coventry in the league cup and did decent against Huddersfield in the league from recollection.

Guerra may not have settled and that may be the case with Saadi, the truth is none of us know.

Anyway were going off track now. Time will tell on whether or not the right decisions have been made with regards to our striking options.

[thehumblegringo]

Some good points raised in this thread from both sides of the argument.

Like i said i would have preferred we kept Saadi personally and we can only hope that this may free some funds for Warnock to pursue another target.

There don't seem to be many clubs pursuing Noone, Pilkington etc so maybe Warnocks hand was forced.

I do wonder if there's more to come from Fred. I know he's currently injured and the club are spending a lot of money on his rehab so you do wonder if there could be a future for him.

[Tandy]

We either trust Warnock to make the right calls or we don't. It's not going to do the team any good if fans are moaning about the players Neil should have kept.

[jon1959]

Some good points raised in this thread from both sides of the argument.

Like i said i would have preferred we kept Saadi personally and we can only hope that this may free some funds for Warnock to pursue another target.

There don't seem to be many clubs pursuing Noone, Pilkington etc so maybe Warnocks hand was forced.

I do wonder if there's more to come from Fred. I know he's currently injured and the club are spending a lot of money on his rehab so you do wonder if there could be a future for him.

Fred is a real mystery.

Last season he was our No 9. Trollope expected him to be the main man, or at least to play the centre forward role with competence until Lambert got going. Neither happened and that massive miss at St Andrews on the first day defined his reputation with fans.

Then Warnock arrived and he immediately started to talk Fred up. He was the best finisher in training. He put in an effective shift when he played - he didn't threaten to score a goal but his work rate was impressive and he tied up defenders and made space for others.

Then he got injured and disappeared from sight. Airbrushed out of history. Never mentioned again. Wales Online mutter about a loan to Belgium now and again, but their hearts aren't really in it.

So who knows? He might finally slink out the back door to an extended loan somewhere over the channel until his contract is up, or he may get the Warnock treatment and be unleashed on an unsuspecting Championship to cause havoc. I suspect the former, but....

[J R Hartley]

Some good points raised in this thread from both sides of the argument.

Like i said i would have preferred we kept Saadi personally and we can only hope that this may free some funds for Warnock to pursue another target.

There don't seem to be many clubs pursuing Noone, Pilkington etc so maybe Warnocks hand was forced.

I do wonder if there's more to come from Fred. I know he's currently injured and the club are spending a lot of money on his rehab so you do wonder if there could be a future for him.

Has Pilkington featured in pre season?

[life on mars]

There's obviously something lacking on or off the field , or he doesn't wish to be in the UK , doesn't train well , lacks effort and commitment , wages paid don't relate to performance, you would not let a half decent striker go if he had potential, they are like hens teeth .

[thehumblegringo]

Has Pilkington featured in pre season?

He scored against Taffs Well then came off with a slight injury

[Nick]

Has Pilkington featured in pre season?

A combination of Stella, Stella and more Stella obviously.