Loic Damour

[Kris]

Nah, I won't bother thanks.

Seeing as you can't be bothered to elaborate on your experiences of traveling to watch French football, I can't draw any conclusions on your views of French Liguria 2. Since RJK's spreadsheet is still in development, I can't draw any conclusions on that either.

So, I am left with my own experiences and opinions. Monaco would be a top 6 Premier team. Check out some of their results last season. The difference between Monaco and the clubs at the foot of the SAME division is much larger than the gap between Chelsea and clubs at the bottom of the Premier. Monaco were winning games 6-0, 6-2, 5-0 (3), and 4-0(4). If Ligue 2 is as strong as the Championship then how come Ligue 1 isn't anywhere as competitive as our own Premier division?

Damour could be a good signing, a late developer. But, Ligue 2 games are notoriously well scouted, and bargains are available. Damour has played an awfully long time at that level.

[Croesy Blue]

Kris did you watch games last season or3 years ago.

I live in France but have only seen ligue 1 football but technically a lot of the teams are up there with PL teams. Monaco and PSG last season would both have been top 4 teams.

[LordKenwyne]

There are some stinkers in their first division but teams like:

Lille
Marseille
Nice
Saint-Etienne
Bordeaux
Lyon

Could all be mid table here I think. Not that I saw any of them last year. I am going off what I know of them in the past. They aren't tin pot clubs anyway.

[Rjk]

Here is a view of a simplified version, for only the leagues mentioned here.
leagues.jpg

Ligue 1 starts off as good as the top of the premier league and ends up towards the bottom of the championship. I bet they have some mismatches in that league.

That seems to be roughly in line with what people are saying from what they've seen also.

[GRUMPYS DEN]

Nah, I won't bother thanks. I've watched games in that league and and have a different opinion to you that's all. I'm a bit confused though because in one of your posts you say "I'm basing my thoughts on having watched some second division games in France a few years back" and yet, in reply to me, you said "All 3 of the games I saw were in Brest last season".

That was lost on me too.Love these threads where people make judgements like this which are impossible to prove.Purely an opinion and nothing else.Only valid to the person making it in most cases.

[LordKenwyne]

Here is a view of a simplified version, for only the leagues mentioned here.
leagues.jpg

Ligue 1 starts off as good as the top of the premier league and ends up towards the bottom of the championship. I bet they have some mismatches in that league.

That seems to be roughly in line with what people are saying from what they've seen also.

What does that graph mean?.

[Rjk]

A very rough assessment of relative strengths of the top 3 leagues in the English pyramid and the top 2 in France

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Here is a view of a simplified version, for only the leagues mentioned here.
leagues.jpg

Ligue 1 starts off as good as the top of the premier league and ends up towards the bottom of the championship. I bet they have some mismatches in that league.

That seems to be roughly in line with what people are saying from what they've seen also.

That suggests the top team in the Championship is far superior to the second placed team, when they won the league by one point? Also, that suggests Newcastle are better than 6 PL sides, and roughly equal to 2 more? Also, it looks like the there are instances where a lower placed side is ranked higher than the side above it?

[Kris]

That was lost on me too.Love these threads where people make judgements like this which are impossible to prove.Purely an opinion and nothing else.Only valid to the person making it in most cases.

I don't think I'm saying otherwise but it seems my actual experience of watching games in that league physically is not as important as a graph built on a one person study. Even the author says it is very rough!

On Damour, time will tell as always. Expectations seem unrealistic though, but what's new there?

[Kris]

What does that graph mean?.

What are the parameters for building that graph?

And why are people unwilling to accept the huge gulf in class in the French top division? Monaco were hammering clubs at home last season.

[Rjk]

That suggests the top team in the Championship is far superior to the second placed team, when they won the league by one point? Also, that suggests Newcastle are better than 6 PL sides, and roughly equal to 2 more? Also, it looks like the there are instances where a lower placed side is ranked higher than the side above it?

I wouldn't pay too much attention to individual points, they are averaged over a few seasons, and the way they're calculated doesn't necessarily follow league performance in an individual season.
It's more about the general trend of the league.

[LordKenwyne]

What are the parameters for building that graph?

And why are people unwilling to accept the huge gulf in class in the French top division? Monaco were hammering clubs at home last season.

Ye the parameters is what I mean.

[Kris]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to individual points, they are averaged over a few seasons, and the way they're calculated doesn't necessarily follow league performance in an individual season.
It's more about the general trend of the league.

That graph indicates that the top Championship club is better than 6 teams in the PL and equal to two others? How is that calculated, please?

Sorry, I see the exact same question was asked by Pedro.

[ccfcwelshlad]

I'm a bit confused though because in one of your posts you say "I'm basing my thoughts on having watched some second division games in France a few years back" and yet, in reply to me, you said "All 3 of the games I saw were in Brest last season".

[Rjk]

That graph indicates that the top Championship club is better than 6 teams in the PL and equal to two others? How is that calculated, please?

Sorry, I see the exact same question was asked by Pedro.

As I answered above, don't focus too much on the individual points, more the general trend.

I would say that the graph says that the top of the championship isn't that dissimilar to the bottom quarter or third of the premier league. Which I don't think is too far from the truth most seasons.

I'm not claiming it's perfect, but I find it useful to try to gauge the strengths of some of the lesser known European leagues

[Croesy Blue]

That was lost on me too.Love these threads where people make judgements like this which are impossible to prove.Purely an opinion and nothing else.Only valid to the person making it in most cases.

People get too entrenched in their views and won't ever back down. Then some people will make up obvious rubbish to try and back themselves up but end up get lost in the lies themselves.

[Rjk]

I don't think I'm saying otherwise but it seems my actual experience of watching games in that league physically is not as important as a graph built on a one person study. Even the author says it is very rough!

On Damour, time will tell as always. Expectations seem unrealistic though, but what's new there?

I would say that expectations of Damour have been really low.
Nobody seems to think he'll be in the first team anytime soon. Whereas players we have signed from league one or Scotland seem to have much more credibility on here.

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

I'm a bit confused though because in one of your posts you say "I'm basing my thoughts on having watched some second division games in France a few years back" and yet, in reply to me, you said "All 3 of the games I saw were in Brest last season".

Did you get an answer to this?

[Rjk]

I would say that expectations of Damour have been really low.
Nobody seems to think he'll be in the first team anytime soon. Whereas players we have signed from league one or Scotland seem to have much more credibility on here.

An alternative way of showing the data would be as a single figure for average of the league.

If the premier league is normalised to 100
This makes la Liga 94
Germany and Italy about 90

Championship about 66
League one 29

Ligue 1 80
Ligue 2 43

SPL would be 42 under that system (34 without Celtic).


Again, I'm not claiming that to be gospel. Just a bit of fun.

A single average value struggles a bit in leagues where there are 2 or 3 really strong sides and a load of shit

[LordKenwyne]

An alternative way of showing the data would be as a single figure for average of the league.

If the premier league is normalised to 100
This makes la Liga 94
Germany and Italy about 90

Championship about 66
League one 29

Ligue 1 80
Ligue 2 43

SPL would be 42 under that system (34 without Celtic).


Again, I'm not claiming that to be gospel. Just a bit of fun.

A single average value struggles a bit in leagues where there are 2 or 3 really strong sides and a load of shit

I am abysmal and maths and all things associated. But I cannot grasp your idea, whatsoever!.

[BlueArmy 86]

You're having a g-raph!

[thehumblegringo]

I don't understand how this thread has evolved (probably the wrong word) like this!!

I don't care if someone has watched 3 games in ligue 2 or whether it's 16% better than the South Wales senior league!

All i know is that at one time Loic Damour was once regarded good enough to be one of 25 kids to be taken on at Clairefontainne and given the technical training to push on to the next level.

He failed in that quest up until now but the man himself has revealed that his attitude wasn't always what it should have been.

Now he is at a make or break age to prove that he has enough commitment to realise his obvious raw talent.

He has been brave enough to step into a faster and more demanding league to prove this. He cost us next to nothing so I'm looking forward to seeing what he's got.

In the brief time that i have seen him play i have been quite impressed and think he can nail down a first team spot.

[Dr Lecter]

I don't understand how this thread has evolved (probably the wrong word) like this!!

I don't care if someone has watched 3 games in ligue 2 or whether it's 16% better than the South Wales senior league!

All i know is that at one time Loic Damour was once regarded good enough to be one of 25 kids to be taken on at Clairefontainne and given the technical training to push on to the next level.

He failed in that quest up until now but the man himself has revealed that his attitude wasn't always what it should have been.

Now he is at a make or break age to prove that he has enough commitment to realise his obvious raw talent.

He has been brave enough to step into a faster and more demanding league to prove this. He cost us next to nothing so I'm looking forward to seeing what he's got.

In the brief time that i have seen him play i have been quite impressed and think he can nail down a first team spot.

I was going to say 'good post' but as you haven't watched 3 french games a few years ago or made a graph then your opinion is worthless.

[Rjk]

I don't understand how this thread has evolved (probably the wrong word) like this!!

I don't care if someone has watched 3 games in ligue 2 or whether it's 16% better than the South Wales senior league!

All i know is that at one time Loic Damour was once regarded good enough to be one of 25 kids to be taken on at Clairefontainne and given the technical training to push on to the next level.

He failed in that quest up until now but the man himself has revealed that his attitude wasn't always what it should have been.

Now he is at a make or break age to prove that he has enough commitment to realise his obvious raw talent.

He has been brave enough to step into a faster and more demanding league to prove this. He cost us next to nothing so I'm looking forward to seeing what he's got.

In the brief time that i have seen him play i have been quite impressed and think he can nail down a first team spot.

Quite right of course, we should be judging people based on what they do for us predominantly.
I just felt some people were writing this guy off when we first signed him, to an extent that they probably wouldn't have if he'd been from league one

[jon1959]

I don't understand how this thread has evolved (probably the wrong word) like this!!

I don't care if someone has watched 3 games in ligue 2 or whether it's 16% better than the South Wales senior league!

All i know is that at one time Loic Damour was once regarded good enough to be one of 25 kids to be taken on at Clairefontainne and given the technical training to push on to the next level.

He failed in that quest up until now but the man himself has revealed that his attitude wasn't always what it should have been.

Now he is at a make or break age to prove that he has enough commitment to realise his obvious raw talent.

He has been brave enough to step into a faster and more demanding league to prove this. He cost us next to nothing so I'm looking forward to seeing what he's got.

In the brief time that i have seen him play i have been quite impressed and think he can nail down a first team spot.

Good post