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In top 10 in the country in terms of support etc.
I think only for one season. In 53/54 we averaged nearly 38,000 for the season which I read somewhere was the 7th or 8th highest in the top flight. Higher than Nugent's lot.Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
We averaged a similar amount in 48/49 in Div 2 but I think averaged were up everywhere just after the war.
I've always thought geographical location and history has played a part in the size of Cardiff City's support.
We are beside the sea - which means that when compared to towns and cities inland, half of our potential catchment area is water. But other cities like Portsmouth sit beside the sea and historically they have had larger crowds. The difference is that there is a rival for our sporting interest, a rival which is significantly more popular and which has absorbed the working classes, providing them with an outlet which has distracted them from their weekly toil and grind.
I remember Cardiff City from the 1950s. I supported Pompey then - seeing my first game in 1953 with my idols Peter Harris, Jimmy Dickinson and Duggie Reid. The crowds then were a breathtaking crush. As a nipper I was passed down over the shoulders of the crowd to the front by a concrete barrier. In the mid-fifties we were in with a chance of winning the title, but Chelsea drew with us in a match I recall and that was that. There was one outstanding round of games with Cardiff. Pompey were in real danger of relegation and at Easter time, teams played the same club home and away.We played Cardiff that year, won both games and stayed up. Working-class Pompey men have football in their blood. We were a top team in the 40s and 50s - even today in League One, there are more than 17,000 season ticket holders. But there was no alternative for our sporting thrills.
One final recollection: Peter Harris was a brilliant right winger, capped by England and unfortunate to be alive in the Stanley Matthews era. He lived near us and I would regularly see him on match-day mornings, shopping with his wife. When I came to Cardiff, I'd see John Charles at Rhiwbina and later Brian Clark at Coryton - though they had stopped playing by then, of course. I wonder how many fans see their idols these days in such mundane settings.
For the future, our Premiership season showed we could sell out CCS for games against the bigger clubs and encouraged the building of another tier on the Ninian (a folly today). I think the gradual increase in the popularity of football at Cardiff is mainly down to TV coverage. If we got back in the Premiership with a good team and a competent manger, I reckon we would get 30,000+ gates.
City were the fifth best supported club in the Football League in their first season in the top flight (1921/22) with an average gate of 33,340 and, although crowds dropped by an average of almost six thousand the following season, their figure of 27.620 was still enough to get them the eighth best supporting team rating. In 23/24 (the season when a missed penalty cost us the league title), our average gate again dropped, but only by a few hundred to 26,950 and this was enough for us to climb a place to seventh in the best supported team rankings.
After that though, in what I would argue was typical Cardiff City style, crowds dropped steadily until we were twenty ninth best supported club, with an average of just 15,424, in our FA Cup winning season.
Since then, we've made it into the top ten just the once - in 52/53 (our first season in Division One in almost a quarter of a century), our average crowd of 37,933 was, I believe, our highest ever and it was enough to make us the eighth best supported club in the country.
On the evidence of nearly a century in the Football League, I don't think I can agree with your contention that we would get 30,000 plus gates more often than not if we became an established Premier League club - yes, we'd fill the ground for the "big" clubs and maybe we would do now and again for the smaller Premier League ones as well if we were doing well, but all of the precedents say that the novelty would soon wear off and I'd be surprised if we were ever a realistic candidate to be a top ten club in terms of average gate again.
I'd only say that I hope when Tan decided to build a 5,000-seater tier, he did what any competent business man would do and had a model drawn up of future needs for the stadium. I hope he wasn't swept away with the euphoria of rubbing shoulders with the likes of Lord Fergusson. Sadly, any projections were torpedoed by the awful appointment of Solskjaer, of course.
I'd like to think that the kids of today, plus the old-stagers of yesteryear would be encouraged to come out of the woodwork, attracted by a decent quality of football and opposition. With the Warlock factor, and a red-hot striker, I reckon we'll get 25,000 against Villa. 30,000 is surely no pipe-dream.
We are not even the 10th biggest club in our division, let alone in the country
I agree that it will be very difficult for us to get into the top ten Premier League clubs in future if we go up but that would be mainly down to the capacity of our ground and all the redeveloping that the big clubs are doing now to enlarge their grounds. However, I disagree that we couldnt fill our ground if we were promoted again. In our recent Premier League season the ground was sold out for home support for every game and the average attendance was 27,430 - only just below full capacity of 27,850 at the time due to some 'missing' away fans. It is not unreasonable to assume therefore that we could fill the ground at 33,000+ every week if we did go back up. Also dont foget that we have planning consent for an increase to 60,000 eventually. So if we did establish ourselves and press for European qualification, then why couldn't we get into the top ten - we can still dream cant we ?
We are just another hull or Portsmouth to be honest, we do have huge potential but it will probably never be realised. Was it the start of the 2002 season we had 17,000 v Wycombe, who brought no fans, in league 1. We still get around that figure now. I can't see us ever being an established premier league side, it's just not Cardiff city.....
Im sorry but that is nonsense
You are not comparing like with like really. When we played Wycombe we were pushing for promotion, whereas in the last three seasons we haven't been anywhere near going up and got relegated the season before. This and all the other well documented problems we had led to a drop in gates. They are now building again and there is no doubt in my mind that if we are near the top come March/April, that we can fill the ground. Hull do not have the history or previous success that we have and didnt sell out every week during their time in the Prem. Portsmouth do have history and similar fan base but have a small crappy stadium and little financial backing currently, so I don't think they compare to us and will struggle to catch up in the foreseeable future.
I've often thought If Cardiff had got promoted in 1970-71 they could have been a long term established top division club like Coventry City were during that time
In last week Pompey has been bought by an American millionaire who was at the final game last season and saw them gain promotion as champions. Scenes like those will stay with him for life.
I may be wrong here but wasn't that tier built for the European Super Cup and wasn't it partially funded by UEFA? I am sure that I read that somewhere and have always been a little confused by those who slag off Tan for building it,calling it his "folly".
Back to your estimates,I agree, that in the Championship 25,000 would be about right for bigger teams with the norm, for a match being around 17/18,000. Promotion challenging would raise that to 22/23,000 and then, of course, in the PL 25,000 would become the norm.
We sold out every week in the Prem, by in large, and that was with the cloud of the rebrand, albeit the novelty of finally being there had an effect. If we could get up this time, and stay up, I don't think 30k would be unrealistic. If we manage to establish ourselves, with the growing size of the city, who knows? But top 10 in the country is probably a stretch!
http://cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewto...p?f=2&t=186816
***** has copied your post Bob.
He must be lurking on here constantly.
That was nice of him to give Bob credit for the article.http://cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewto...p?f=2&t=186816
***** has copied your post Bob.
He must be lurking on here constantly.
Thing with ***** is he's been thriving on the negative things that's happened over the last few years especially the lower attendances. The day we start filling or close to filling the CCS he's going to be gutted. He's practically wanking over the likes of Pompey or Bradford getting big crowds or taking 1000 away on a Tuesday night. He's always reverts to us then saying how poor our attendance is home or away.
From a man who claims to love Cardiff, he takes real pleasure in slagging the club off, weird.
I don't think he did.
Whooooooosh.
Thinks hes bigger than the club
That was our big chance, excellent crowds in division 2, cup games around that era against Arsenal & Leeds attracting 50,000+. Glory hunting hadn't taken off so much, nigh on everyone in school was a City fan, their Dads still had recent top flight football fresh in the mind even the Third Division South glory days were easily recalled by many. That was our time, if Dewey & co would have pushed the boat out who knows how established we'd have become.
Not sure how we were pushing for promotion as it was the opening game??? Do you mean we'd been promoted from the dungeon before which let's face it is hardly a big deal. I reckon if you look back through history our crowds are similar to those mentioned clubs....
Got me there!
(Whoosh at ya back)
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