Has Cardiff ever been a 'big club'?

[dml1954]

Theyve sold out of season tickets this season. They are a better supported club without a shadow of a doubt.

They have just come off the back of promotion, so not surprisingly, demand for season tickets this season has been good. However, their ground only just holds over 20000 and last seasons average gate was 16712. So they didn't sell out every week even though they were pushing for promotion. I dont deny that they have been a big club in the past but certainly not now. To become one again they will need a new stadium and to get back at least into the championship and be pushing for the Prem. We are off the back of three poor seasons and a relegation before. When we were pushing for promotion four seasons ago our average gate was 22296 and i believe our season ticket sales were around 18000. So I think we compare quite favourably with them.

[Cyclops]

They have just come off the back of promotion, so not surprisingly, demand for season tickets this season has been good. However, their ground only just holds over 20000 and last seasons average gate was 16712. So they didn't sell out every week even though they were pushing for promotion.

What you haven't considered is that though the stated ground capacity is around 20,000 H&S has limited the crowd size to around 17,000 - 18,000 - which makes their gates and season ticket sales even better.

[J R Hartley]

They have just come off the back of promotion, so not surprisingly, demand for season tickets this season has been good. However, their ground only just holds over 20000 and last seasons average gate was 16712. So they didn't sell out every week even though they were pushing for promotion. I dont deny that they have been a big club in the past but certainly not now. To become one again they will need a new stadium and to get back at least into the championship and be pushing for the Prem. We are off the back of three poor seasons and a relegation before. When we were pushing for promotion four seasons ago our average gate was 22296 and i believe our season ticket sales were around 18000. So I think we compare quite favourably with them.

That might be the case that they need a new ground, or development to Fratton Park, however your original post was all ifs, buts and maybes "If Cardiff get promoted to the Premier League, if we get into Europe, If we expand to a 60,000 capacity". So same applies to Portsmouth. If they get promoted, if they develop or build a new gound, if they buy Harry Kane.etc,etc. Its all pie in the sky.

What I do know is Portsmouth have spent 4 seasons in the dungeon and consistently averaged between 15200-16700 each season. This on the back of 3 relegations in 4 years, and getting pissed around by bad owner after bad owner. The last time City spent 4 consecutive seasons in the dungeon we averaged around 3500 for 3 years and 8000 in the promotion season. We averaged around the same as Pompey last 2 seasons, two divisions apart, and we have bigger away attendances at the CCS.

[Chris Pontprennau Blues]

I love all these comments about being a big club - if we had had 30 years plus continuously in the 1st Div/Prem - imagine what our support and stadium capacity would be now - as it happens we've spent more time in the lower leagues over the 40 odd years I've supported City... get real

[dml1954]

I love all these comments about being a big club - if we had had 30 years plus continuously in the 1st Div/Prem - imagine what our support and stadium capacity would be now - as it happens we've spent more time in the lower leagues over the 40 odd years I've supported City... get real

I never said we were a 'big club', just potentially so and currently bigger than either Hull or Portsmouth.

[Temujin]

In top 10 in the country in terms of support etc.

Teams from South Wales have always had to compete with the interest in rugby, not neccesarily the crowds, but the partisanship of enjoying the 'other' sport and the press that accompanies it.

Now as rugby wanes significantly the clubs are up against the internationalism of football support and the blanket TV coverage, the timing is terrible.

[J R Hartley]

Let's be honest the support from the people of Cardiff itself is poor given the size of the city. Half of Cardiffs support comes from the valleys and other nearby towns such as Barry, Bridgend, Maestaeg, Neath and Port Talbot.etc
Cardiff are also fortunate compared to other other major cities that they have only a handful of league clubs in a 50 mile radius.
Many other major cities have inner city rivals and plenty of clubs they have to compete with for their support.

[Cyclops]

Maybe we should also factor in the predicted growth of the local population over the next ten or so years when computing future attendances.

[the other bob wilson]

Maybe we should also factor in the predicted growth of the local population over the next ten or so years when computing future attendances.

Fair point.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Let's be honest the support from the people of Cardiff itself is poor given the size of the city. Half of Cardiffs support comes from the valleys and other nearby towns such as Barry, Bridgend, Maestaeg, Neath and Port Talbot.etc
Cardiff are also fortunate compared to other other major cities that they have only a handful of league clubs in a 50 mile radius.
Many other major cities have inner city rivals and plenty of clubs they have to compete with for their support.

Agreed, but what if the rivalries enhance support by generating overall interest?

[J R Hartley]

Agreed, but what if the rivalries enhance support by generating overall interest?

Is that really a significant factor? Off the top of my head Newcastle, Sunderland and Pompey are cities that are one club cities, dont have many clubs in their catchment areas, who all have great support.

On the other hand Bristol are a two club city, with a fairly large catchment area, who are both poorly supported.

[My Name is Dave.]

Thinks hes bigger than the club

This exactly - can't stand to see the club doing well without him.

Anyway I thought he was buying Merthyr

[J R Hartley]

This exactly - can't stand to see the club doing well without him.

Anyway I thought he was buying Merthyr

They might need a buyer as they are in the shit again

[TH63]

"we coulda been contenders"

We've won the FA cup, beaten Real Madrid, and a certain Bill Shankly's first game in charge of Liverpool saw them get battered, 0-4, at Anfield, by guess who...

Seems to me that we never really built on that "early" success the way that other similar clubs have done.

Arguably that's due to a succession of crap owners, and trying to do things on the cheap - to me growing up, we were always a bit more Barry Island Funfair than disneyland.

The old "sleeping giant" thing is a bit of a cliche, but it's not without some basis. Whilst we are a small city, we have a large catchment area and marketed in the right way with a successful team, one day maybe we could get near the top of the Prem, but I think we're a bit too late to the party tbh.

[goats]

Agreed, but what if the rivalries enhance support by generating overall interest?

Too true, support from the capital itself must be about 10% of the population, statistically probably the worst of any city in the U.K. for a club. Compare that to somewhere like Burnley, lots of local support and about 15 clubs within 60 miles.

[J R Hartley]

Too true, support from the capital itself must be about 10% of the population, statistically probably the worst of any city in the U.K. for a club. Compare that to somewhere like Burnley, lots of local support and about 15 clubs within 60 miles.

Theres f*ck all else to do in Burnley!

[dml1954]

Too true, support from the capital itself must be about 10% of the population, statistically probably the worst of any city in the U.K. for a club. Compare that to somewhere like Burnley, lots of local support and about 15 clubs within 60 miles.

Burnley regularly dont sell out in the Prem and mostly only get gates of between 15000 to 18000, so whilst they might have been a 'big club' in the past they certainly aren't any more. Their stadium is one of the poorest in the Prem in terms of size and facilities as well. Our stadium and facilities beat theirs hands down, as did our attendances when we were promoted.

[lennybluebird]

They've never been run properly from the Boardroom and/or the team management side to step up and stay in the top league since I've supported them over fifty years.Still believe they could be big if they both got there act together.

[Packerman]

little club playing a glamour tie away

[Cyclops]

little club playing a glamour tie away

Damn troll....

[My Name is Dave.]

On the promotion season when we both got promoted we took more to fratton park than they brought to NP

[J R Hartley]

I never said we were a 'big club', just potentially so and currently bigger than either Hull or Portsmouth.

How are we currently a bigger club than Hull exactly?
They've spent 5 of the last 9 seasons in the Premier League and currently have better attendances?

[dml1954]

[QUOTE=J R Hartley;4766815]How are we currently a bigger club than Hull exactly?
They've spent 5 of the last 9 seasons in the Premier League and currently have better attendances?[/QUOTE

Neither of us has played any home league games this season, so how can you say currently they have better attendances. Last season they were in the premier league, so their attendances were obviously higher than us then. Their average attendance last season was 20761 and their ground capacity is 25400 (82% occupation). Our average attendance in the prem in 2013/2014 was 27432 against a capacity of 27850 (98% occupation). Our ground is larger than theirs by 7880 currently. We have a larger catchment area and fan base. Prior to 2009 they had never been in the top division and they have never won the FA cup. We were established before them in 1899. I could go on but have a feeling that you would disagree and appear to like causing arguments in an empty room.

[Cyclops]

[QUOTE=dml1954;4767039]

Their average attendance last season was 20761 and their ground capacity is 25400 (82% occupation). Our average attendance in the prem in 2013/2014 was 27432 against a capacity of 27850 (98% occupation). Our ground is larger than theirs by 7880 currently. .

So 27,850 - 25,400 = 7,880?

[J R Hartley]

[QUOTE=Cyclops;4767042]

So 27,850 - 25,400 = 7,880?

He's reffering to the white elephant that is the top tier in the Ninian. The stand which we cannot afford to open, and dont need to open.

However, this will come back to bite him on the bottom when he uses his occupation percentages.