Reply With QuoteOnly sustained success at the top level, a few cup wins here and there, occasional qualification for Europe etc would see us, or many other teams for that matter, become one of the top 10 most supported teams.Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
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Teams from South Wales have always had to compete with the interest in rugby, not neccesarily the crowds, but the partisanship of enjoying the 'other' sport and the press that accompanies it.
Now as rugby wanes significantly the clubs are up against the internationalism of football support and the blanket TV coverage, the timing is terrible.
Only sustained success at the top level, a few cup wins here and there, occasional qualification for Europe etc would see us, or many other teams for that matter, become one of the top 10 most supported teams.
Let's be honest the support from the people of Cardiff itself is poor given the size of the city. Half of Cardiffs support comes from the valleys and other nearby towns such as Barry, Bridgend, Maestaeg, Neath and Port Talbot.etc
Cardiff are also fortunate compared to other other major cities that they have only a handful of league clubs in a 50 mile radius.
Many other major cities have inner city rivals and plenty of clubs they have to compete with for their support.
Maybe we should also factor in the predicted growth of the local population over the next ten or so years when computing future attendances.
Agreed, but what if the rivalries enhance support by generating overall interest?
Fair point.
This exactly - can't stand to see the club doing well without him.
Anyway I thought he was buying Merthyr
Is that really a significant factor? Off the top of my head Newcastle, Sunderland and Pompey are cities that are one club cities, dont have many clubs in their catchment areas, who all have great support.
On the other hand Bristol are a two club city, with a fairly large catchment area, who are both poorly supported.
They might need a buyer as they are in the shit again
"we coulda been contenders"
We've won the FA cup, beaten Real Madrid, and a certain Bill Shankly's first game in charge of Liverpool saw them get battered, 0-4, at Anfield, by guess who...
Seems to me that we never really built on that "early" success the way that other similar clubs have done.
Arguably that's due to a succession of crap owners, and trying to do things on the cheap - to me growing up, we were always a bit more Barry Island Funfair than disneyland.
The old "sleeping giant" thing is a bit of a cliche, but it's not without some basis. Whilst we are a small city, we have a large catchment area and marketed in the right way with a successful team, one day maybe we could get near the top of the Prem, but I think we're a bit too late to the party tbh.
Too true, support from the capital itself must be about 10% of the population, statistically probably the worst of any city in the U.K. for a club. Compare that to somewhere like Burnley, lots of local support and about 15 clubs within 60 miles.
Theres f*ck all else to do in Burnley!
Burnley regularly dont sell out in the Prem and mostly only get gates of between 15000 to 18000, so whilst they might have been a 'big club' in the past they certainly aren't any more. Their stadium is one of the poorest in the Prem in terms of size and facilities as well. Our stadium and facilities beat theirs hands down, as did our attendances when we were promoted.
Being promoted from the dungeon was a big deal to us at the time. Being a big club must include things like past history and success, as well as current stadium capacity and attendances and I think we beat Hull hands down in most aspects. Portsmouth have certainly been much bigger than us in the past but I dont think you can say that currently. Their stadium is very antiquated, much smaller and average gates have been lower for some years with all their problems, although are building again now.
Theyve sold out of season tickets this season. They are a better supported club without a shadow of a doubt.
They're at the novelty stage of their support. Everything fresh and green.
They have just come off the back of promotion, so not surprisingly, demand for season tickets this season has been good. However, their ground only just holds over 20000 and last seasons average gate was 16712. So they didn't sell out every week even though they were pushing for promotion. I dont deny that they have been a big club in the past but certainly not now. To become one again they will need a new stadium and to get back at least into the championship and be pushing for the Prem. We are off the back of three poor seasons and a relegation before. When we were pushing for promotion four seasons ago our average gate was 22296 and i believe our season ticket sales were around 18000. So I think we compare quite favourably with them.
What you haven't considered is that though the stated ground capacity is around 20,000 H&S has limited the crowd size to around 17,000 - 18,000 - which makes their gates and season ticket sales even better.
That might be the case that they need a new ground, or development to Fratton Park, however your original post was all ifs, buts and maybes "If Cardiff get promoted to the Premier League, if we get into Europe, If we expand to a 60,000 capacity". So same applies to Portsmouth. If they get promoted, if they develop or build a new gound, if they buy Harry Kane.etc,etc. Its all pie in the sky.
What I do know is Portsmouth have spent 4 seasons in the dungeon and consistently averaged between 15200-16700 each season. This on the back of 3 relegations in 4 years, and getting pissed around by bad owner after bad owner. The last time City spent 4 consecutive seasons in the dungeon we averaged around 3500 for 3 years and 8000 in the promotion season. We averaged around the same as Pompey last 2 seasons, two divisions apart, and we have bigger away attendances at the CCS.
Possibly but if correct, it also confirms the poor condition their ground is in and the perilous financial state they have been in in recent years. However, I would have thought that their ground capacity would have been reduced by H&S as well but it is clearly shown as 20,200 which to me indicates that this is correct and has been adjusted to reflect the capacity restriction put in place, in which case I stick to my original point. It would seem odd if they left the capacity alone whilst telling the club to not sell as many tickets. This seems a rather loose way of controlling the situation. The usual way of an Authority controlling attendances is to reduce the stated capacity.
No-one doubts the run-down nature of Fratton Park - but the info you are looking at is duff. For the final game of last season when promotion was achieved as champions (and when tickets were like gold dust) the attendance was 17,956. This was due to H&S considerations as mentioned before. The 'perilous financial state' will no doubt be addressed by the new owner, the former ceo of the Disney corporation.
Dont forget when we were playing in the lower leagues we were at a ground that was falling to bits with restricted capacity and very few facilities. Also it was around 20 years ago and we hadnt been in the top league for well over 30 years so many fans had become disillusioned and stopped coming. Pompey were in the Premier League less than seven years ago and so have retained more of their core support. I wouldn't have argued that Portsmouth werent a bigger club than us in the 1980's or 1990's but at this time I dont see it.
If you want to quote statistics to me, how about in 2009/10 the year Pompey were relegated from the Prem. That season their average home attendance was 18249 whereas ours in 2012/13 when we went down from the same league was 27000+. In 2011 & 2012 in the championship their average was 15700 & 15000. In league 2 in 2013 it was 12232. These figures all compare less favourably than our averages for the same seasons.
27,000? You got the wrong season there mush. Cardiff crowds in the first season after relegation averaged 20,945. Anyone who attended games then would tell you we were nowhere near capacity that season.
If you want to quote statistics how about you get them correct
As for restricted capacity at NP, thats got nothing to do with average crowds of 3500.
No, I didnt get the wrong season, mush, I got the wrong date. It should have been 2013/2014 when our average attendance in the Prem was over 27000, whereas Portsmouths last average attendance in the Prem in 2009/2010 was 18249. The fact remains however that our average attendances in the Prem and then the Championship in the year after relegation were higher than Portsmouth's, which is the point I was trying to make.
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