Keith Andrews

[J R Hartley]

But all the best players from premier league recently have moved to Spain Ronaldo bale suarez

Where as the best pl players aguero sanchez came from la liga but weren't wanted by the barca or real

Well that's not Ronaldos fault is it ?

Either way Messi or Ronaldo, they both piss all over Bale, stats or otherwise.

The point of the thread was Keith Andrews wants to make some kind of comparison between Bale and Ronaldo. Compare the lot and Bale is not on the same planet as Ronaldo, or Messi.

[lardy]

When Messi comes and plays 5 seasons in the Prem perhaps we can compare overall.

Ronaldos goals per game ratio for Madrid is better than Messis for Barca.

You said that you thought Messi was better up til 5 or 6 years ago...Ronaldo played in the Prem 9 years ago so I don't see how this would be a factor for you now.

Maybe Ronaldo's Madrid figures are better, but that's hardly a fair test as all of his developing years were at other clubs while Messi's count towards his Barca stats. Messi has outscored him since Ronaldo arrived in Madrid.


Bickering apart, I do agree with what you say about Ronaldo's drive. If there were no Messi at the same time then I imagine his goalscoring figures would be lower, although still comfortably higher than anyone else around. Another really important attribute he has is resistance to injury, that one rarely gets mentioned. Although Euro 16 and last season seems to show some cracks. I doubt we'll see him at the very top level at the age of 35, let alone 40 as was mentioned.

[J R Hartley]

Eh? I said you cannot compare overall stats when Ronaldo has played in a more difficult league for 5 years. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion 5/6 years ago on who was best??

And if you want to split hairs Ronaldo, including international goals, scored 1 more than Messi last season.

I'd also say his goals in the Champions League last season were up there with some of the best and most vital goals of his career.

[J R Hartley]

Anyway this was about Bale v Ronaldo not Messi v Ronaldo. They are both potentially the best ever and we are lucky to have been neutrals in this great time so we can appreciate both players

It's not one or the other as neutrals we can admire both

[lardy]

Eh? I said you cannot compare overall stats when Ronaldo has played in a more difficult league for 5 years. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion 5/6 years ago on who was best??

And if you want to split hairs Ronaldo, including international goals, scored 1 more than Messi last season.

I'd also say his goals in the Champions League last season were up there with some of the best and most vital goals of his career.

You can have the opinion, it's just odd to me that Ronaldo's Premier League experience is a factor now when it wasn't 5 years ago.

Ronaldo's scored about 20 international goals since June 2016 which is extraordinary. Although if you're bringing in quality of opponents, as with La Liga vs Premier League, then 8 came against Andorra and Faroe Islands.

[J R Hartley]

You can have the opinion, it's just odd to me that Ronaldo's Premier League experience is a factor now when it wasn't 5 years ago.

Ronaldo's scored about 20 international goals since June 2016 which is extraordinary. Although if you're bringing in quality of opponents, as with La Liga vs Premier League, then 8 came against Andorra and Faroe Islands.

How many goals did Messi score in last seasons champions league QF, SF and final?

Going back to the Premier League comparison you seem to be getting confused.

There is the comparing of goal scoring stats which I am saying there are more difficult opponents in the Prem.

Then there is the opinion of who is the best player in the world and i don't base this on stats alone. it was Messi for me because he was ripping up Europe as well as La Liga in a style I appreciated more.

I didn't say 5/6 years ago I changed to Ronaldo I said ask me 5/6 years ago and it was Messi all day long.

I always thought Messi on another planet, then rhere come Ronaldo who was exceptional but not quite as good as Messi, then the rest.

I'd say it's last 2 / 3 years where I've finally thought Ronaldo and Messi are on the same planet and have been converted to camp Ronaldo.

Maybe as I've got older I appreciate more than the eye catching dribbles? Maybe as Ronnie has featured heavily in some Champions League wins I've given him more credit. Either way I think the argument is much closer now than it was 5/6 years ago.

[lardy]

How many goals did Messi score in last seasons champions league QF, SF and final?


Going back to the Premier League comparison you seem to be getting confused.

There is the comparing of goal scoring stats which I am saying there are more difficult opponents in the Prem.

Then there is the opinion of who is the best player in the world and i don't base this on stats alone. it was Messi for me because he was ripping up Europe as well as La Liga in a style I appreciated more.

I didn't say 5/6 years ago I changed to Ronaldo I said ask me 5/6 years ago and it was Messi all day long.

I'm not confused, whether it was 5 years or 3 years or 2 months ago, my point is that all through that time Ronaldo had played in the PL and Messi hadn't. If you've changed your mind on who is best, which I'm not saying you aren't allowed to do, then why is a different league a factor now and not then? If they had both started in La Liga and then one had since moved, then it would make more sense.

I always thought Messi on another planet, then rhere come Ronaldo who was exceptional but not quite as good as Messi, then the rest.

I'd say it's last 2 / 3 years where I've finally thought Ronaldo and Messi are on the same planet and have been converted to camp Ronaldo.

Maybe as I've got older I appreciate more than the eye catching dribbles? Maybe as Ronnie has featured heavily in some Champions League wins I've given him more credit. Either way I think the argument is much closer now than it was 5/6 years ago.

Messi's vision and passing is what puts him ahead of Ronaldo in my book. That's the thing, he's not just an eye catching dribbler. Think I'm right in saying that he has had more assists than Ronaldo in every Spanish season.

[jon1959]

I think you misunderstood what he said. They were talking about Bale's tracking back to prevent an Austria shot and he said you won't see Ronaldo doing that. They were just emphasising that Bale is a team player.

That is exactly the point Keith Andrews was making. He wasn't claiming Bale was a better player than Ronaldo (obviously he isn't) but that he is a better team player - more willing to track back and cover for the mistakes of others. He's 100% right in that observation, although I don't think Ronaldo is as selfish as he's sometimes made out to be.

[jamieccfc]

I'm not confused, whether it was 5 years or 3 years or 2 months ago, my point is that all through that time Ronaldo had played in the PL and Messi hadn't. If you've changed your mind on who is best, which I'm not saying you aren't allowed to do, then why is a different league a factor now and not then? If they had both started in La Liga and then one had since moved, then it would make more sense.




Messi's vision and passing is what puts him ahead of Ronaldo in my book. That's the thing, he's not just an eye catching dribbler. Think I'm right in saying that he has had more assists than Ronaldo in every Spanish season.

I looked this up a couple of months ago and was surprised how close it was, I just think it depends how you like football to be played and my personal choice would be Messi everyday but I'm on the same bench as gringo and would even think of possibly picking iniesta if ever there was a more deserving winner of the balloon d'Or he would be up there just unfortunate he's played the same time as 2 of the most prolific scorers

[jamieccfc]

That is exactly the point Keith Andrews was making. He wasn't claiming Bale was a better player than Ronaldo (obviously he isn't) but that he is a better team player - more willing to track back and cover for the mistakes of others. He's 100% right in that observation, although I don't think Ronaldo is as selfish as he's sometimes made out to be.

You don't really want him to do that though all his energy should be used in the final third

[J R Hartley]

It doesn't matter what your point or interpretation of my point is I've explained why it's a factor in the overall stats but not necessarily in my opinion of who was / is the best .

Quite frankly both their stats are outrageous but stats are not the be all and end all. It's down to personal preference. I've explained my reasons for previously much preferring Messi, but now appreciating Ronaldo more.

I like both players, I just like Ronaldo more at the moment. I don't know why people are getting so defensive of Messi it's not like I called him shit

I make a comment that Ronnie doesn't have the natural ability of Messi, Maradona or Ronaldinho but makes up for it in other ways and I've disrespected Messi somehow

Best of all this was a Bale v Ronaldo thread and I'm being attacked by Messi-ites

[J R Hartley]

That is exactly the point Keith Andrews was making. He wasn't claiming Bale was a better player than Ronaldo (obviously he isn't) but that he is a better team player - more willing to track back and cover for the mistakes of others. He's 100% right in that observation, although I don't think Ronaldo is as selfish as he's sometimes made out to be.

If he's going to make a stupid and unnecessary comparison to a player totally irrelevant to last nights game then he should compare all aspects.

You're more likely to see Bale track back than Messi. So what? What's the point? He's in the team to get goals the other end he's not a full back anymore.

[Nick]

If he's going to make a stupid and unnecessary comparison to a player totally irrelevant to last nights game then he should compare all aspects.

You're more likely to see Bale track back than Messi. So what? What's the point? He's in the team to get goals the other end he's not a full back anymore.

And if he had not tracked back and made that tackle we would not have won 1-0 last night. Great play by Bale.

[jamieccfc]

And if he had not tracked back and made that tackle we would not have won 1-0 last night. Great play by Bale.

We'll never know now but that is not where I want to see bale playing Gunter needs a good kick up the ass after that performance

[J R Hartley]

And if he had not tracked back and made that tackle we would not have won 1-0 last night. Great play by Bale.

What's that got to do with Ronaldo?

[J R Hartley]

We'll never know now but that is not where I want to see bale playing Gunter needs a good luck up the ass after that performance

Yes there was no guarantee the Austrian would have scored

[thehumblegringo]

I'm not confused, whether it was 5 years or 3 years or 2 months ago, my point is that all through that time Ronaldo had played in the PL and Messi hadn't. If you've changed your mind on who is best, which I'm not saying you aren't allowed to do, then why is a different league a factor now and not then? If they had both started in La Liga and then one had since moved, then it would make more sense.




Messi's vision and passing is what puts him ahead of Ronaldo in my book. That's the thing, he's not just an eye catching dribbler. Think I'm right in saying that he has had more assists than Ronaldo in every Spanish season.

I agree with the last paragraph completely. Messi could comfortably play as a number 4 and dictate a football game.

I agree with Guillem Balague that Ronaldo is probably the complete number 9 at the moment but as a footballer you've got to say Messi is better.

There are a lot highlight programmes on sky catch up at the moment on Ronaldo and Messi. Have a look at the one Magical Messi it's unbelievable and shows why I think Messi is untouchable.

The only reason Messi didn't score in the semi final and final of last year's champions league was because Barcelona were absolute garbage.

I watched all Barcelona's games last season and I believe they would have been 4th or 5th if it wasn't for Messi.

He rescued them time and time again. Madrid on the other hand are the best team in Europe by some distance at the moment and I believe they would win the champions league whether Ronaldo was there or not, and that's not taking anything away from Ronaldos contribution. Their strength in depth is frightening.

If I was Messi I would have signed for Citeh this season and got out now for the sake of his final few years.

Even when Barcelona were at their brilliant best with Xavi, Iniesta and co, Messi was always the man that made them incisive and was their matchwinner.

He's the best by some distance in my opinion and though everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just can't get my head around it.

[J R Hartley]

Sorry Gringo but you're massively downplaying Ronaldos influence on last seasons Champions League win.

2 goals away to Bayern 1st leg QF

Hat trick in the 2nd leg

Hat trick in the 1st leg SF against Atletico, a team Real often struggle against, putting the tie out of site.

2 goals against Juve in the final, another team that rarely give goals away.

Yes Madrid do have strength in depth more than any other team in Europe but to suggest Madrid would still have beaten such teams as Bayern, Atletico and Juve without him in the manner they did with him is misguided to say the least. Definitely a case of your irrational hatred for CR7 ruling sense there.

He scored 10 goals from QF to Final against 3 of the top teams and best defences in Europe ffs!!!

You're championing Messi for making Barca have better results against La Liga teams whilst downplaying what Ronaldo did to the best teams in Europe!!

[BlueArmy 86]

You would NEVER see ronaldo making a challenge like that in his own box, so what he said was completely right.

He wasn't saying Bale is better or scores as much, so what's your point.

[J R Hartley]

You would NEVER see ronaldo making a challenge like that in his own box, so what he said was completely right.

He wasn't saying Bale is better or scores as much, so what's your point.

WHY WAS RONALDO USED AS A COMPARISON?

Please give me a logical explanation and then we will go from there.

Until then if Keith Andrews is going to suggest how magnificent it was that Bale tracked back and Ronaldo wouldn't I'll raise the point of the aspects Ronaldo brings to the team that Bale doesn't.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

What's that got to do with Ronaldo?

When was the last time Ronaldo tracked back?

[ccfc_is_my_life]

WHY WAS RONALDO USED AS A COMPARISON?

Please give me a logical explanation and then we will go from there.

Until then if Keith Andrews is going to suggest how magnificent it was that Bale tracked back and Ronaldo wouldn't I'll raise the point of the aspects Ronaldo brings to the team that Bale doesn't.

He was used as a comparison because Portugal, like Wales, are seen as a one man team.

Bale is far more of a team player than Ronaldo will ever be.

[William Treseder]

I used to respect your football knowledge Polo mate, but anyone that thinks Ronaldo is better than Messi is talking absolute nonsense as far as I'm concerned.

To say Ronaldo does it year by year, sounds like you're implying that Messi doesn't!

What has Messi ever done at international level? No doubting his sheer class, but let's be fair. He's done it at one club during a golden era for them. Both Ronaldo and Maradona had the balls to go to other clubs and prove they were the best. Maradona dragged an average Argentina side to World Cup glory, and an average Napoli side to a title.

[lardy]

What has Messi ever done at international level? No doubting his sheer class, but let's be fair. He's done it at one club during a golden era for them. Both Ronaldo and Maradona had the balls to go to other clubs and prove they were the best. Maradona dragged an average Argentina side to World Cup glory, and an average Napoli side to a title.

To be fair, if Higuain hadn't missed a sitter then Messi would have a world cup winners medal.

As for Maradona, he's the only man stopping Messi being called the best ever in my opinion.

We're getting dangerously close to 'can he do it on a wet Tuesday in Stoke' territory...

[Sgt. Pepper]

Each to their own mate. Messi is not the player he was imo and Ronaldo is getting better it seems.

As I said he wasn't blessed with Messis natural ability but his sheer will to win and be the best is what sets the two apart.

Messi looks to me like a footballer not enjoying his job anymore. It's a job to him where has Ronaldo is still like a little kid playing the game for the first time.

If you asked me the question 5/6 years ago I was Messi all day long but I've been converted to camp Ronaldo.

No need for that feller, OK, he's lithe and pretty, but ..