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Thread: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

  1. #76

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Using his mum was weird but the alternative was "you were right I was wrong" and that just isn't in Tan's DNA.

    Yes there was that cup game, but what was the attendance against Portsmouth in the cup this season?

    Sure, some fans panicked a bit because they thought the withdrawal of his investment would effectively kill the club. Would it have done? Who knows, but who wanted to take that chance? And do you really think a couple of panicky letters in the Echo made any difference?

    I had similar arguments with Reds in the ground. Their actions were shameful. Funny that since we got relegated I've not seen the protagonists since.
    The Portsmouth cup game is irrelevant, unless you're suggesting Tan should have used the low attendance to reverse the reverse of the reverse of the reverse of the rebrand (think I got them all).

    Tan and/or the club actually mentioned the e-mails of support at a later stage, so whilst I agree that the letters of support made no difference, they were tools/weapons in his arsenal. He played the fanbase like a fiddle, especially with that initial reversal. I find it as unsavoury now as I did then but it certainly does not pre-occupy my time and the only reason we are discussing this now is because of a typical international break article in a failing rag.

  2. #77

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    Do you honestly believe that? I think he knew very well that it would be unpopular, but felt his investment entitled him to do what he wanted with the club. There was even an acknowledgment in the club's rebrand statement, so it had clearly been considered.

    "We are only too aware that the change of colour is a radical and some would say revolutionary move which will be met with unease and apprehension by a number of supporters, along with being seen as controversial by many."

    I'm not suggesting we shouldn't move on now he has reversed it, but let's be real about what actually happened.
    Yeah I do believe it and if anything that statement supports my belief that the board knew there may be controversy but took his money anyway.
    They either said to tan
    "this is a really bad idea but feck em, give us the money"
    "there may be some pushback but not much so don't worry about it"
    Or they said nothing.

    Either way I stand by my opinion that nobody told Tan he was about to become public enemy number one, if they had, then he wouldn't have put all that money in.

  3. #78

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Then don't moan about people wasting their lives on the rebrand subject you hypocrite
    I'm not moaning, I was having a reasonable discussion with Kris until you stuck your oar in. You've picked up on ONE part of my post and taken it out of context. I understand and respect Kris' opinion I just think it's a shame.

    For someone who doesn't like to be told what he can and cannot say, you're pretty good at doing so yourself and you call ME hypocrite?

  4. #79

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Yeah I do believe it and if anything that statement supports my belief that the board knew there may be controversy but took his money anyway.
    They either said to tan
    "this is a really bad idea but feck em, give us the money"
    "there may be some pushback but not much so don't worry about it"
    Or they said nothing.

    Either way I stand by my opinion that nobody told Tan he was about to become public enemy number one, if they had, then he wouldn't have put all that money in.
    Did Tan become public enemy number 1? My last game was Cardiff 0 Charlton 0, and Tan was applauded and cheered onto the pitch, so I guess it must have been during the relegation months that public opinion altered. And, now the club is top of the league, we can discuss that the mood has mellowed and that fans are really forgiving Tan rather than celebrating a great start to the season.

  5. #80

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    The Portsmouth cup game is irrelevant, unless you're suggesting Tan should have used the low attendance to reverse the reverse of the reverse of the reverse of the rebrand (think I got them all).

    Tan and/or the club actually mentioned the e-mails of support at a later stage, so whilst I agree that the letters of support made no difference, they were tools/weapons in his arsenal. He played the fanbase like a fiddle, especially with that initial reversal. I find it as unsavoury now as I did then but it certainly does not pre-occupy my time and the only reason we are discussing this now is because of a typical international break article in a failing rag.
    I only mention the Pompey game because it was a cup game (same cup?) and had a similar shite attendance so I think it is relevant.

    The rest of your post?

  6. #81

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    I'm not moaning, I was having a reasonable discussion with Kris until you stuck your oar in. You've picked up on ONE part of my post and taken it out of context. I understand and respect Kris' opinion I just think it's a shame.

    For someone who doesn't like to be told what he can and cannot say, you're pretty good at doing so yourself and you call ME hypocrite?
    "If posting the same old arguments about Tan is what makes people happy then surely they need to reevaluate their life choices."

    You then spend the evening doing just that.

    You need to reevaluate your life Terence

  7. #82

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    "If posting the same old arguments about Tan is what makes people happy then surely they need to reevaluate their life choices."

    You then spend the evening doing just that.

    You need to reevaluate your life Terence
    Yeah, but I'd like to think I discuss more than just Tan.

    And I kinda enjoy posting on here about a football team I still enjoy watching.

    Kris doesn't go anymore and still keeps on about tan, I think that's his choice, imho it's a sad one, but I'm ok with discussing it with him. You just tell him to get over it, bit of a difference.

    The Terence thing is getting a bit boring now btw

  8. #83

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Yeah, but I'd like to think I discuss more than just Tan.

    And I kinda enjoy posting on here about a football team I still enjoy watching.

    Kris doesn't go anymore and still keeps on about tan, I think that's his choice but it's a sad one. You tell him to get over it, bit of a difference.

    The Terence thing is getting a bit boring now btw
    Goodnight Terence

  9. #84

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Goodnight Terence
    Yawn

  10. #85

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Yeah I do believe it and if anything that statement supports my belief that the board knew there may be controversy but took his money anyway.
    They either said to tan
    "this is a really bad idea but feck em, give us the money"
    "there may be some pushback but not much so don't worry about it"
    Or they said nothing.

    Either way I stand by my opinion that nobody told Tan he was about to become public enemy number one, if they had, then he wouldn't have put all that money in.
    It's pretty clear you're going to stand by your opinion on this one TH. Even though your rationale appears to still be evolving.

    In your first post you simply stated that someone told him it wouldn't be a problem.

    Then you added into a follow-up post that it also might actually have been that nobody specifically told him that it would be.

    Now in the latest you're saying he may also have actually been told it's a really bad idea.

    But in every evolving scenario he's absolved of responsibility for a decision he made. I think you're missing the simplest and most obvious explanation - as outlined in the rebranding statement that he would have signed-off, that he knew very well it would be controversial and unpopular for some fans, but he just wanted to do it anyway.

  11. #86

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    It's pretty clear you're going to stand by your opinion on this one TH. Even though your rationale appears to still be evolving.

    In your first post you simply stated that someone told him it wouldn't be a problem.

    Then you added into a follow-up post that it also might actually have been that nobody specifically told him that it would be.

    Now in the latest you're saying he may also have actually been told it's a really bad idea.

    But in every evolving scenario he's absolved of responsibility for a decision he made. I think you're missing the simplest and most obvious explanation - as outlined in the rebranding statement that he would have signed-off, that he knew very well it would be controversial and unpopular for some fans, but he just wanted to do it anyway.
    I wouldn't say it's evolving as such, but I do take on board sensible comments like yours and consider that there may be other scenarios.

    But I still maintain that if someone had said to him "Red shirts? You're having a laugh mate, that'll cause a shitstorm" then the rebrand may not have happened. Tan's a billionaire with numerous businesses so I just can't understand why he would put himself through all that grief. My opinion is that the most likely scenario is that during negotiations, someone's told him it wouldn't be that big a deal, just give us your money. But I accept that I may be wrong.

    I certainly don't absolve him of blame, even taking the emotion out of it, you'd expect there to be some more detailed due dilligence before making a decision like that. He fvcked up, not arguments, but I think he's righted that wrong.

  12. #87

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    I opposed the change from the start, never accepted it & fought it even after my move to Australia. I even said Tan had made it easier for me to leave by ruining what I held dear.

    So NO! from me

  13. #88

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    I wouldn't say it's evolving as such, but I do take on board sensible comments like yours and consider that there may be other scenarios.

    But I still maintain that if someone had said to him "Red shirts? You're having a laugh mate, that'll cause a shitstorm" then the rebrand may not have happened. Tan's a billionaire with numerous businesses so I just can't understand why he would put himself through all that grief. My opinion is that the most likely scenario is that during negotiations, someone's told him it wouldn't be that big a deal, just give us your money. But I accept that I may be wrong.

    I certainly don't absolve him of blame, even taking the emotion out of it, you'd expect there to be some more detailed due dilligence before making a decision like that. He fvcked up, not arguments, but I think he's righted that wrong.
    I am afraid to say, i think the lure of big money and the premier league was too great for all parties, the other board members / members of staff, Tan himself, the coaching staff and most of the fans, dont forget we had crap times running upto this, not knowing where our club would be and even if we would have a club, money talked i am afraid

  14. #89

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    I am afraid to say, i think the lure of big money and the premier league was too great for all parties, the other board members / members of staff, Tan himself, the coaching staff and most of the fans, dont forget we had crap times running upto this, not knowing where our club would be and even if we would have a club, money talked i am afraid
    I agree money talked.

    Personally, I was more worried about survival than promotion, but of course there are roughly 30,000 people connected in some way to the club board members, employees, fans etc and they all have different and valid opinions. We're never all going to agree.

  15. #90

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    To understand Tan, you have to factor in the unbridled, sycophantic adulation to which he is accustomed (remember that birthday video) and his mindset which was illustrated by odd (to our eyes) pitch ceremonies.

    We may view him through Western, Welsh eyes - but this will cloud comprehension.

  16. #91
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    Fans wearing the traditional blue colours were verbally abused during games, in particular that game against Brighton.
    BOLLOCKS

  17. #92

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    To understand Tan, you have to factor in the unbridled, sycophantic adulation to which he is accustomed (remember that birthday video) and his mindset which was illustrated by odd (to our eyes) pitch ceremonies.

    We may view him through Western, Welsh eyes - but this will cloud comprehension.
    It may in some cases but not in all.

  18. #93

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    BOLLOCKS
    I agree.

  19. #94

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    BOLLOCKS
    Sad to say I witnessed first hand an admittedly small minority of people who were verbally abusing people who were waving blue flags

  20. #95

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Yawn

  21. #96

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Sad to say I witnessed first hand an admittedly small minority of people who were verbally abusing people who were waving blue flags
    If anyone was getting abused it was the people in red

  22. #97

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamieccfc View Post
    If anyone was getting abused it was the people in red
    That happened too.

    Hardly our finest hour

  23. #98

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Morris View Post
    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/s...ncent-13561180

    After taking the club from blue to red and back again, have Bluebirds supporters finally forgiven the club's owner?

    Is it time to forgive Vincent Tan?

    Or have most of us Cardiff City fans done that already?

    It was scarf night against Brighton in 2013 that I reached my personal Tan-regime nadir.

    The Cardiff City Stadium was full of red thanks to the free scarves handed out to supporters as they entered the ground. I refused one and sat solemnly through the match, watching us lose 2-0 and looking at my fellow Bluebirds, wondering what had happened to this grand old club.

    We were a winning side that season. But I couldn’t help but feel a nagging sense of sadness, even when thousands swarmed the pitch to celebrate promotion that Tuesday night against Charlton.

    And I knew who I blamed for that discomfort.

    I’d taken a pragmatic approach to red – reasoning that we’d eventually return to blue and I’d be there, way after Vincent Tan had gone, to see that day.

    In the meantime, going down the City was still going down the City. I just had to put up with the, erm, Bluebirds turning out in colours Manchester United or Liverpool would feel more at home wearing.

    For all the pragmatism, the red thing felt weird – improper.

    When fans chanted at us “You’ve sold your history”, I’d inwardly clap them, thinking to myself “Well yes, we have”.

    But success and the chance to see Cardiff City in Premier League was enough to keep me and many others shamefully silent.

    It remained a debate in the family between my brother, father and me: was all this worth it if we get to see City in the Prem? But for me, that’s where it began and ended.

    I understood the feelings of those fans who’d turned their backs on the club, who viewed those of us who still went down as scabs – though I disagreed with their actions as much as they disagreed with mine.

    Tan had come to us with a deal: I’ll turn your club red, in exchange for the kind of success you’ve been crying out for decades.

    We’d swallowed that red pill, some more reluctantly than others, and success was the reward.

    We won the Championship, only the third time in the history of the club that we’d won a league outright.

    History matters in football. It’s part of the mythology.

    I speak as someone who went on the marches against Peter Ridsdale – but has always loyal to the team: I’ve never booed a player, nor a performance – no matter how dire. Having watched City since the mid-80s, that includes some pretty terrible football and woeful players.

    The red issue was bound to come to a head at some point, the moment things on the pitch started to go wrong.

    That came in the particularly sour period when Malky Mackay and Vincent Tan were in a standoff and the fans passionately backed Mackay.

    “Don’t sack Mackay,” we sang to Tan – ignorant of the allegations to come and oblivious to the irony that we’d become more impassioned and united about a manager than we were about the colours of the club.

    But it was this moment which galvanised and united supporters over the colours and, ultimately, tacit reconciliation between fans and Tan.

    After Mackay left, a period of particularly dire football followed and with it the appointment of arguably three of the worse Bluebirds managers ever – maybe marginally better than Russell Osman and Alan Durban. But only maybe.

    With each dour Russell Slade performance, it felt as though Tan was punishing us for wanting our team to play in blue.

    Every insipid game played out before ever-dwindling crowds was a statement about our place in the Cardiff City reality, and his.

    Well, that’s what you could assume. What else was there to think when things seemed so bleak?

    Amid a Football League transfer embargo, we had Alex Revell leading our line for goodness sake.

    But perhaps all this was part of a Vincent Tan grand plan.

    Because the sacking of Paul Trollope last season and the appointment of Neil Warnock has proved nothing more than a masterstroke, in public relations and football terms.

    It’s academic whether it’s Tan or chairman Mehmet Dalman who can take the credit for bringing in Warnock. Because ultimately it is Tan who gave the appointment the go ahead and it is Tan who’s given Warnock freedom in the transfer market.

    And what a summer transfer window we have just had, 10 new signings to bolster a team already boasting the likes of Kenneth Zohore, Bruno Manga, Sol Bamba, Aron Gunnarsson and our skipper Sean Morrison.

    Warnock’s arrival at the Cardiff City Stadium is proof, if any is needed, that the most important person in a football club is its manager.

    From him has come a sense of ambition and self-confidence; a realisation that we are Cardiff City and we are at our best when we’re fighting as underdogs – no pretty tiki-taka football, but gritty, determined and direct play.

    With Warnock has come a passion that has been lacking since Mackay’s departure.

    There is an excitement at the club that we’ve not had since our many trips to Wembley; since our Sam Hammam promotions; since the great Eddie May era.

    What has all this meant for my view on Tan?

    Well, he brought back the blue, invested in the team, showed commitment with the appointment of Warnock – he’s doing the things a steady-as-you-go owner does.

    The fact that Kenneth Zohore remains a City player after so much speculation through the transfer window has only gone to make Tan look even more benevolent.

    We still have a Cardiff City Football Club to support and we still play in blue. That’s enough to be grateful for to me.

    It must have been difficult for Vincent Tan coming into an alien culture so entwined and embedded in community, tribalism – colour.

    How could he ever have understood how fans would feel when he changed us from royal blue to his favourite scarlet red?

    So here’s my opening question again, posed slightly differently: have we forgiven Tan?

    I think we probably have as we cheer such vintage football right now, even if we might not care to admit it.
    No and he can still fuuck off as far as I'm concerned. Each to their own though and I want City to always win. I just won't give the cuunt a penny.

  24. #99

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    It's good to be back in blue.
    It's good to have a championship club.
    I wonder if we would have fewer critics if the JBs were down in the basement rather than in the premier league

  25. #100

    Re: Have Cardiff City fans forgiven Vincent Tan without realising it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Clearly his rebrand was ill advised, would you not agree?

    And whilst I have no evidence that someone flat out told him it wouldn't be an issue, it's fairly safe to assume that nobody told him that it would be. They just took his money.
    Ill-advised as in not sensible, wise or prudent? Certainly.

    Ill-advised as in the Emperor received bad advice? Certainly not. That is a myth which has been circulated repeatedly since 2012 by Tan's apologists. On the contrary, the man was advised that the reaction from the fanbase to his rebrand would be far more angry and problematical than it ever actually was. Indeed, senior club officials were genuinely surprised by how meekly the changes were accepted by the overwhelming majority of supporters and in many cases even warmly welcomed. This much I know for a fact as I was involved in four lengthy meetings with the CEO and various other senior club representatives at the time.

    In recent years there seems to have been great deal of revision as regards the history of the rebrand. Although it was only implemented a little over a five years ago, it appears many Cardiff City fans have conveniently forgotten what actually happened, who was responsible and why.

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