Reply With QuoteHowOriginally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
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Have you just moved the goalposts?
How
Bollocks!There would be no Cardiff City without Tans money.
We'd still exist, almost certainly have gone in and out of admin - but that didn't do Swansea Town any harm, did it?
[QUOTE=Badly Ironed Shirt;4789843]I have one username. I have seen accusations that I am Kris. I am not, and have no reason to lie.
I have also received accusations that I am trolling. I am not, I am giving an opinion on a public forum, and I do so without calling people I disagree with gimps, and I do so without accusing others of posting under multiple ids.
I have received accusations that I post in a similar style to other posters - what is that, in English? Possibly, other posters share the same views as me, they do that independently of me and I have no control over what any of the people who are, in your paranoid world, me post.
Now, to prevent further accusations of trolling (i.e. back to the thread topic), would Tan suddenly become a less great owner if Cardiff drop to 7th? Is an owner to be judged purely on league position? In which case, the owner of the club in 1924 would have the greatest claim to being the greatest owner.
How about owners who have accomplished the most with the least amount of money at their disposal? In which case, the owners of the 60s and 70s would have the greatest claims.
I see that the crowd was down to a sub 20,000 again, and a few people here are complaining that the people of Cardiff and the surrounding areas are not getting behind their club. Oddly (and again at the risk of a life-time ban for "trolling", but this is genuinely my opinion), I disagree. The club were able to attract crowds of more than 20,000 with higher ticket prices (in real terms) in 2009-10. In fact, sub 20,000 crowds at CCS were a rarity until recently, and far from blaming an "apathetic and tight-fisted" local population, I blame Tan's handling of the re-brand, it's reversal, it's reversal, and it's reversal (mum told me to do it). I blame Tan's comments about being happy to lose "25%" of the fan base.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/21604568
There were many comments from Vincent Tan back in the height of the rebrand days that made it fairly obvious to those of us who disagreed with his methods that we were expendable and that we could go whistle. Which is what many of us are continuing to do. After all, we were told that we wouldn't be missed (yet, you are moaning about our absence) and there were droves of people waiting to take our seats.
The very fact that the football club are unable to pull in 20,000 people for a Saturday 3pm kick off, despite being top, despite outplaying Leeds United four days earlier, despite (in my opinion) very good ticket prices at the club (in fairness to Tan, he has kept ticket prices very fair, in fact they are priced fairly reasonably) - this very fact is down, in a large part, to Vincent Tan's actions in the past.
Now, we can all argue whether he has "righted his wrongs", or he hasn't "righted his wrongs", but his actions in 2012 led to a few people sitting and questioning whether there was an entity to be "loyal" to any longer. Jimmy the Jock happily calls me "disloyal jirga", he's entitled to that opinion. It's a pathetic wind-up attempt because, unlike him, I now realise that "Cardiff City" football "club" are not a club nor an entity that deserves my loyalty. I wonder if Jimmy was at some of the games I was at, with sub 1000 and sub 2000 crowds? He probably was at all of them, the loyal sod.
So, back to the OP - a question, Why weren't you lauding Vincent Tan in December 2013? Or September 2014? Or September 2015? Or September 2016? Is your view that Tan is the "greatest" owner ever as short term as Tan's plans for a Cardiff City that played in red and were going to dominate the Malaysian football shirt market?[/QUOTE
Part of the reason crowds tailed below 20k in the last few seasons was due, mainly, because the family season ticket package was no longer free for under 10's. Up until this point the family section sold up to 8,000 season tickets.It's probably half that this season So,that's 4,000 of the gate
I may be totally wrong here but I thought that if hmrc called in a debt you didn’t go into admin you went into receivership
No it didnt. The casualties were those affected by the admin.
One major casualty in our case being Sam.
That's the hope
How was Sam a casualty? He gambled, lost yet still got all his money back!?!?
I think that he is saying that, if Cardiff went into administration, then Sam would have been the major casualty. No bad thing, both Sam and Tan have gambled for the sake of egos, but the club is in debt as a result of their ego trips.
Why are you limiting potential replacements in a hypothetical situation to a group of local businessmen? Is it to serve your own flawed argument?
Choosing the best Cardiff City owner is a bit like choosing your favourite Tory leader.
Boris Johnson or that Rees-Mogg. No contest.
Hitler for me.
I forgot about her.
Sam gambled as he wanted the retail park. Remember what he did to Plough Lane .....
Did he actually put any significant money in?
£24m of loan notes. Tan has loaned the club significantly more. Result, club in debt that it can not pay. I know, I know, debt to equity... that was promised when I was last going down and that's 4 years ago.
You said there would be no Cardiff City without Tan.
They ( the HMRC ) warned us ( and other football clubs ) it would not be admin, but they would seek Administration, though that could well have led to Liquidation as the debt to asset ratio must have been small
Vincent Tan is the richest owner of the club in my lifetime and he seems to bankrolling CCFC whilst ensuring that the club structure and finances are made much more sustainable. Short of promotion, though, I doubt the club could survive in the top half of the Championship without Tan or someone similar continuing to prop it up. On balance - and despite the rebrand and naive/ignorant treatment of fans as customers in that period - I think Tan has far more in the credit column now than debit.
I like the hands-off relationship he has adopted (although I would like him to do an annual meeting with fans/media as he did 18 months ago), he seems to have learnt a lot about the culture and finances of British football and has delegated to Warnock and Choo (who mostly impresses me, especially as he has come from outside football). He seems to be backing the manager, keeping the cheques coming in, has supported initiatives around ticketing, prices, community and charity work, academy restructure, and more.
Jim White isn't doing interviews on his yacht any more, and except for a few minor Malky-related blips, Tan has avoided being 'the story'.
Recent history is still there, and the legacy has something to do with the damage to attendance and relationships with the club that are now slowly healing. But Tan seems a much better bet as owner than many others (maybe most others) in this league or any other likely options for us. And he appointed or approved the appointment of Neil Warnock - a massive positive that has been the catalyst for a transformation of the club on and off the field.
I'm not a fan of Vincent Tan - I find it hard to warm to billionaire businessmen - but I am comfortable with him as owner and the way he is conducting himself and the club at the moment.
Sam put little off his own cash into Cardiff City but did very well out of it
FYI HMRC was trying to wind us up-big difference.ADMINISTRATION NOT AN OPTION.
I think you'll find Hitler was a socialist..
From recollection he initially put 3m of his own money in but then took that money back out in "Consultancy" fees.
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