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Thread: What has Theresa said today?

  1. #26

    Re: What has Theresa said today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    You dont really need anecdotal evidence, just ask someone who works in those industries. Look at the evidence of why people voted Brexit in Labour stronghold working class areas - and the evidence is right there for you on a plate.

    If we have growth in the economy, record employment etc and you want to increase your wages - simply reduce the available workforce supply and that will force wagse up (as well as feck part of the economy). I would argue that because there is so much available cheap labour and so much competition for goods and services then wages will be kept low - for competition reasons for the foreseeable future
    About that Mambo me old mate. The office for Budget Responsibillty has downgraded the forecast for productivity for the next five years. Think they say because artificially low interest rates are propping up bad companies that would otherwise go to the wall in a free market. Growth seems to be artificially stimulated then. Do you think cheap labour is also a factor in this or am I missing some point. Hope you are good there.

  2. #27

    Re: What has Theresa said today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    Bob - Hasn't what Corbyn is offering been done before ? , did it work then ?, in fact is what Corbyn is offering been done anywhere in the world and did it work ?
    A bit to broad a question, which bits?

  3. #28

    Re: What has Theresa said today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    I wouldnt get too bothered about productivity (I used to) - Radio4 debate saying that the reason the French are 'so productive' is not that they do things better it is because in France tough employment regulations mean it is very difficult to employ someone (and even harder to sack them if they arent up to the job).

    So in France they will not buy a person - they will buy a machine to do the job for them instead. Hence they maybe more productive - but that doesnt help if the Dole queue is getting longer every week - and unemployment payments are going up.

    I have to get back to work rather than being on here - but I find these times to be very interesting, uncharted economic waters and events can swiftly effect the outcomes of the 'big picture' of the UK, EU etc
    I gonna go away and think on what you said Mambo mucker.

    So machines increase productivity instead of a well insentivised worker. The 2 together would be best I would have thought. Low paid workers-low productivity and no machines in this country. I going to go and check relative employment rates in France per capita, disregard cultural bias then look at inwards investment and then get back to you.

    That sound like I'm being funny. I'm not I promise. I just got to try to work out how to do it. I been looking at parrots on the main board and telling Louth to get fecked this morning so you can see what I mean.

    By the way you always so 'I got to get back to work', Makes me feel like I'm intruding.

    Take care mate. Good posts.

  4. #29

    Re: What has Theresa said today?

    Quote Originally Posted by joecity View Post
    I gonna go away and think on what you said Mambo mucker.

    So machines increase productivity instead of a well insentivised worker. The 2 together would be best I would have thought. Low paid workers-low productivity and no machines in this country. I going to go and check relative employment rates in France per capita, disregard cultural bias then look at inwards investment and then get back to you.

    That sound like I'm being funny. I'm not I promise. I just got to try to work out how to do it. I been looking at parrots on the main board and telling Louth to get fecked this morning so you can see what I mean.

    By the way you always so 'I got to get back to work', Makes me feel like I'm intruding.

    Take care mate. Good posts.
    Soz mate that sounded sarcky like. I mean I go look on it further.

  5. #30

    Re: What has Theresa said today?

    So, for me austerity is a failed project, they have missed every target and the very wealthy are getting richer and richer throughout. It is ideologically driven and once you are wedded to an ideology you miss opportunities. They sold austerity on the back of comparing the nations finance to a household budget which is obviously such a load of nonsense I don't even need to explain why.

    I guess where it all falls down to me is this - When life becomes solely a competition of who can get to the top everybody suffers. The divisiveness of the last few years is unprecedented and as usual it is a theme (public vs private, all vs those on benefits, born here vs immigrants) passed down from the top because it suits them for everybody to be arguing with each other. A doctor needs a builder and a builder needs a doctor, society needs both to function and unfortunately for me the conservative ideology is that FOR society to function the doctor needs to screw the builder and the builder needs to screw the doctor. Weirdly this 'dog eat dog' mantra of recent times seems to go hand in hand with flag waving nationalism, either we share common goals or we are just a bunch of people unlucky enough to be living near each other - they need to choose.

    What is the centre ground? Corbyn's policies almost all poll more than 50%, are we an extreme left country?!

    I work in my local county council and I see lazy people and I see massive waste, often at the top and usually because of short term thinking driven by budget concerns. I am all for tackling that but unfortunately what I have seen is vital services being dropped and people being forced to work absurd hours or accept that they can't help the family that they could 5 years ago.

    We need to encourage businesses that actually stand a chance of succeeding. I remember an interview with a childcare provider after the minimum wage went up and he was guilt tripping 'society' for driving the change. The reality is, if you can't pay your staff the amount that it costs to live without going broke then you don't have a viable business model, he isn't an entrepreneur, he is a guy taking a chance and unfortunately his idea bombed. I certainly don't want businesses who rely on the taxpayer to be dictating to the taxpayer.

    Where I will agree is on the point about collecting corporation tax. A government can't plug all the holes. I don't know how you tackle that but I guess we as consumers need to drive change by favouring businesses who operate fully within this country. I also don't agree with nationalising for the sake of it, the railways are a completely failed privatisation, none of the benefits of competition but wacking great subsidies and prices that go up every year without fail. I can't see the harm in trying a new way at this point.

    The main problem in politics these days is you can't criticise something without being lumped in the polar opposite camp. Clearly the railway privatisation is garbage, do I wan't 'British Rail' back? Not really. Clearly introducing University fees and trying to create a marketplace and competition hasn't worked at all, do I want completely free university education? Not without massive reform.

  6. #31

    Re: What has Theresa said today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    To me -

    He isnt addressing the deficit. Massive increase in public spending - which he says is costed by corporation tax increases. All fine and dandy - BUT he is making the classic mistake of spending it before he has got it. He presumes that large Corps will just roll over and cough up - they wont. There were countless other massive spending pledges - each time he used corporation tax as the source of the money.

    Can we all agree that tax and spend doesnt work.

    His ideas are fine in principal - bring in less competition, nationalise everything...... - I just dont think in the current climate - business will go for that. We need to be encouraging business here - not putting them off. If any chancellor wants to tinker a few percentage points with corp tax / vat - fine. That gives them some money to spend - not spend it 10 times over before it comes in.

    Far better to encourage growth / exports than penalise them, which I fear an openly Marxist chancellor would do to further his public sector spending

    Having said all that - maybe the country is in need of a change - let them feck it up again and teach us all a lesson - again. Then the conservatives get in - and go too far the other way !!!

    UK politics has always been about the centre ground - move away from that - and your days are numbered.

    Railways in Wales will be a good test, I dont mind Rail ownership being taken back by the WAG - BUT I dont think the WAG could run a bath let alone a rail company, we'll see what happens there then.

    Thats me done for the day on here - too much politics for one morning
    The Chancellor has just warned that Brexit and the uncertainty around it is putting off investment. The referendum called by the business party. Sorry meant the Conservatives. Mambo mate you have lived through many governments and bear the scars, it's plain too see. I would just wonder that the scars on the next generation will hurt a lot more( sorry that's a horrible analogy) . The old saying 'They have never had its so good' only relates to a fraction now mate. Young people are fecked now In my opinion. How could it be worse?

    Labour are a genuine and credible alternative for me. Old voters who are against them and have most assets are dying off. They can leave a legacy from days of old to their family and that's fair enough if they haven't used all the equity to live off in current times. Old arguments don't cut it no more made by the old guard who say the same old sh*t. Not you I mean.

    Why not nationalise some things with all the know how gleaned from free market intervention? Keep and re invest the profits not pay suits and Pension pots which don't really exist no more.

    Energy, Transport,Local Housing,Health They should work for all.
    Other markets they can exploit anyway. Marxism? Did you mention Venezuela by name?

    I know you say things for us to think upon. Thanks

    Plus I still thinking about productivity stats. Don't let me keep you me old mate. Good luck.

  7. #32

    Re: What has Theresa said today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    So, for me austerity is a failed project, they have missed every target and the very wealthy are getting richer and richer throughout. It is ideologically driven and once you are wedded to an ideology you miss opportunities. They sold austerity on the back of comparing the nations finance to a household budget which is obviously such a load of nonsense I don't even need to explain why.

    I guess where it all falls down to me is this - When life becomes solely a competition of who can get to the top everybody suffers. The divisiveness of the last few years is unprecedented and as usual it is a theme (public vs private, all vs those on benefits, born here vs immigrants) passed down from the top because it suits them for everybody to be arguing with each other. A doctor needs a builder and a builder needs a doctor, society needs both to function and unfortunately for me the conservative ideology is that FOR society to function the doctor needs to screw the builder and the builder needs to screw the doctor. Weirdly this 'dog eat dog' mantra of recent times seems to go hand in hand with flag waving nationalism, either we share common goals or we are just a bunch of people unlucky enough to be living near each other - they need to choose.

    What is the centre ground? Corbyn's policies almost all poll more than 50%, are we an extreme left country?!

    I work in my local county council and I see lazy people and I see massive waste, often at the top and usually because of short term thinking driven by budget concerns. I am all for tackling that but unfortunately what I have seen is vital services being dropped and people being forced to work absurd hours or accept that they can't help the family that they could 5 years ago.

    We need to encourage businesses that actually stand a chance of succeeding. I remember an interview with a childcare provider after the minimum wage went up and he was guilt tripping 'society' for driving the change. The reality is, if you can't pay your staff the amount that it costs to live without going broke then you don't have a viable business model, he isn't an entrepreneur, he is a guy taking a chance and unfortunately his idea bombed. I certainly don't want businesses who rely on the taxpayer to be dictating to the taxpayer.

    Where I will agree is on the point about collecting corporation tax. A government can't plug all the holes. I don't know how you tackle that but I guess we as consumers need to drive change by favouring businesses who operate fully within this country. I also don't agree with nationalising for the sake of it, the railways are a completely failed privatisation, none of the benefits of competition but wacking great subsidies and prices that go up every year without fail. I can't see the harm in trying a new way at this point.

    The main problem in politics these days is you can't criticise something without being lumped in the polar opposite camp. Clearly the railway privatisation is garbage, do I wan't 'British Rail' back? Not really. Clearly introducing University fees and trying to create a marketplace and competition hasn't worked at all, do I want completely free university education? Not without massive reform.
    Good stuff. Why couldn't Rail being brought back into the fold be good though. You wouldn't be getting British Rail back. It would be something new with all the lessons learned from the previous wouldn't it. The best performing line is under government control isn't it. East Anglia.

    Sorry mate I am a bit lazy with my research sometimes cause I get bogged down with facts and go off on tangents. You work in a local authority so you have seen austerity in action. You also know about best practice policies, time n management studies, things that are done to slimline service without affecting output. Couldn't these be used in modern day returning private enterprise into the house. I still struggle to understand why we let business run Rail. I don't understand why power, rail, health are left to business in this day n age.

    Investment, waste, people tell me but they make massive profits so they not really investing are they? or am I just wrong cause I could easily be. Taking money out of the country to replace it with shit jobs with disputes galore and not much security. If money was ring fenced to a degree with a formula like the Barnet Formula sort off wouldn't every body win overall. I know there is nothing as a perfect world but this state of affairs is pretty shite.

    Other countries building our power stations,(Expertise you could argue but we built our own ones) running our rail franchises, providing our health care at certain points, doing our assessments for dss getting into local government, outsourced this and outscored that to what end?

    I am not being a little Islander but where do we benefit from the half arsed way it's being done. Essential services. Cant we do them ourselves?

  8. #33

    Re: What has Theresa said today?

    Quote Originally Posted by joecity View Post
    Good stuff. Why couldn't Rail being brought back into the fold be good though. You wouldn't be getting British Rail back. It would be something new with all the lessons learned from the previous wouldn't it. The best performing line is under government control isn't it. East Anglia.

    Sorry mate I am a bit lazy with my research sometimes cause I get bogged down with facts and go off on tangents. You work in a local authority so you have seen austerity in action. You also know about best practice policies, time n management studies, things that are done to slimline service without affecting output. Couldn't these be used in modern day returning private enterprise into the house. I still struggle to understand why we let business run Rail. I don't understand why power, rail, health are left to business in this day n age.

    Investment, waste, people tell me but they make massive profits so they not really investing are they? or am I just wrong cause I could easily be. Taking money out of the country to replace it with shit jobs with disputes galore and not much security. If money was ring fenced to a degree with a formula like the Barnet Formula sort off wouldn't every body win overall. I know there is nothing as a perfect world but this state of affairs is pretty shite.

    Other countries building our power stations,(Expertise you could argue but we built our own ones) running our rail franchises, providing our health care at certain points, doing our assessments for dss getting into local government, outsourced this and outscored that to what end?

    I am not being a little Islander but where do we benefit from the half arsed way it's being done. Essential services. Cant we do them ourselves?
    There are many different reasons for privatisation, railways was ideological and to weaken the unions. Disability assessments being done privately is about removing public liability for horrid decisions - government want us to blame the company and not them. Forced academisation of schools was a push towards entirely private schooling but the government couldn't get that done.

    I think we can spend our money more wisely than re-nationalising things at a premium cost to the taxpayer, railways can be done one by one as the franchises expire so that works. That is why I wouldn't be in favour of things like the national grid or entire energy sector being brought back into public hands.

    Hinckley is simply PFI under a different name, it seems very unlikely that we get a 'good' deal (one where we pay less in total than we would have if we were building it ourselves). This government don't appear to be able to draw the distinction between capital investment and day to day expenditure. They have taught the public to be dumb and now are forced to live by that.

  9. #34

    Re: What has Theresa said today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    There are many different reasons for privatisation, railways was ideological and to weaken the unions. Disability assessments being done privately is about removing public liability for horrid decisions - government want us to blame the company and not them. Forced academisation of schools was a push towards entirely private schooling but the government couldn't get that done.

    I think we can spend our money more wisely than re-nationalising things at a premium cost to the taxpayer, railways can be done one by one as the franchises expire so that works. That is why I wouldn't be in favour of things like the national grid or entire energy sector being brought back into public hands.

    Hinckley is simply PFI under a different name, it seems very unlikely that we get a 'good' deal (one where we pay less in total than we would have if we were building it ourselves). This government don't appear to be able to draw the distinction between capital investment and day to day expenditure. They have taught the public to be dumb and now are forced to live by that.
    Thanks mate. I thinking about this. i know Labour are talking about ending PFI and bringing it back in house if you know what I mean. PFI dreamed up under a Tory government but used with enthusiasm by Labour, Can they offer good value? do you know of such? I'm sure it can work under the right circumstance or is it really just a Wonga pay day loan. Why couldn't the government just lend the money at the low rates that they can rather than asking the private sector to do it then add they're cut in for good measure. These things occupy a lot of time in my mind so all thoughts welcome. Nice one.

  10. #35

    Re: What has Theresa said today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    You dont really need anecdotal evidence, just ask someone who works in those industries. Look at the evidence of why people voted Brexit in Labour stronghold working class areas - and the evidence is right there for you on a plate.
    Nonsense. They voted Brexit in the main as a protest.

    Take South Wales. Are you seriously telling me that huge swathes of immigrants have had an effect on wages? Really? Absolute bollocks. It's interesting that immigration is seen as a problem in Wales, yet it's a part of Britain that has been far less affected by immigration than most other areas (historically Wales is mostly made up of immigration, but that's another story). The parts of Wales that voted Brexit most strongly are the areas that have had the lowest amounts of immigration.

    Too many people swallowed the bullshit the media gave them. Too many people have been swayed by the blame immigrants tale, in the same way that they are swayed by the benefit scrounger tale. It's called divide and conquer. Blame those in society that can't fight back.

    Brexit is a sham. It won't make any difference to the type of immigration people don't want (only the UK government can do that). It won't make any difference to wages, until we fail to get trade deals and we're living in UK PLC sweat shop and wages go down.

  11. #36

    Re: What has Theresa said today?

    It wrecks my head every time.

    Loads of people voted for Brexit cause of immigration cause they seen rent, house prices go up. Wages flat line n fall compared to inflation. Standard of living plummet, less security or a sense there of. Fkn jobs where you are on a endless repeat of 8 week conrtacts through agency's who rob you're money cause next man ready to fill youre boots.. No pensions. Que for the doctor that you used to see at a shorter notice. Bigger school classes, less teachers. Less public service's and spread more thinly.

    It ain't racist to think so like some would say (not you guys) and it don't make you stupid but it does fudge the issue. Immigration has always been in the hands of the government the same as investing in things have. Seems they can't do either. Non politically speaking they all a shower of c*nts cause all of the 3 are involved in this crock.

    I don't think EU migration is the root cause of all of this. Non Eu migration must surely be culpable the same. Is migration even part of the problem. You cant just let folk come n set up life's. Work hard pay tax but then not build any new houses or schools or NHS provision to accomodate such an increase when you couldn't even provide in the first place.

    Maybe the government likes it like this. Maybe. Blame each other instead of them for the abhorent lack of ambition and investment that is on show and the feckin sh*t standard of living that keeps you awake at night now.

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