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Thread: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

  1. #41

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Mate of mine walked away in protest, objective now achieved he's come back.

    How many are still saying away because of the (now reversed and universally acknowledged as a mistake) re brand? Couple of hundred?
    I reckon more. I also reckon that there are others who have come back who no longer have the same enthusiasm - they no longer have season tickets and no longer attend every home game. Once you realise there are other things out there than just football, I dare say it's not so easy to pick up where you left off.

  2. #42

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    Most people have seen Tan reverse the colour change and since then do very little wrong, draw a line under it and get back to the key thing of supporting the team.

    If you and your family can't get over it... so be it.
    I suspect we are the only ones who stopped attending purely as a result of Tans actions. Or, maybe not, and maybe some of the missing thousands can be accounted for in the same way that I have just accounted for 5. I could extend it to a couple of colleagues, a batch of school mates etc etc.

  3. #43

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    I reckon more. I also reckon that there are others who have come back who no longer have the same enthusiasm - they no longer have season tickets and no longer attend every home game. Once you realise there are other things out there than just football, I dare say it's not so easy to pick up where you left off.
    I'd go along with this. At the time, those who stayed away (many extremely loyal) were replaced just like people said they would be. Once the success dries up, the people who attend for reasons other than success have started to be missed.

    I am not saying 100% of the fan loss is down to Tan's antics in the years when he gave a damn. However, people here suggest it's negligible - that is ridiculous. It's easy to compare crowds this season with 2010-11 or 2011-12. The prices are the same, the team are getting better results. I've yet to hear any other reasons being given for the loss of numbers.

    We can all offer anecdotal evidence if fans coming back, or fans not coming back. The fact is both sets exist, and if every fan returned, or if the effect is negligible, then please offer an alternative reason for the lower gates.

  4. #44

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    I reckon more. I also reckon that there are others who have come back who no longer have the same enthusiasm - they no longer have season tickets and no longer attend every home game. Once you realise there are other things out there than just football, I dare say it's not so easy to pick up where you left off.
    Agree 100%.

  5. #45

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Your all ex fans. Not coming back.

    Same as those who went before my time im thinking Toshack.

    Ive already given my answer on the missing fans.

    26000 v Leeds. Need them back to kick on and keep our big names.

    If they dont weve had worse times.

    My opinion based on new fans v old is the new who joined from our promotion season onwards outnumber those who left.

    Anyway even if im wrong there is nothing that can be done for those who chose to stop supporting. They are not coming back. The Leeds game shows we have a healthy fan base with success.

    What CCFC need to do is at least maintain our current support. Failure to go up and a few sales an the crowds will dip furthur.

    Im glad we are back in blue.

    I think its a great time to support this club. Others prefer to do other stuff thats their choice.
    If your equation of new outnumbering old is right, why are crowds lower?

  6. #46

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    I reckon more. I also reckon that there are others who have come back who no longer have the same enthusiasm - they no longer have season tickets and no longer attend every home game. Once you realise there are other things out there than just football, I dare say it's not so easy to pick up where you left off.
    This.

    I used to go to every game I could. To the point that I used to work a night shift on a Friday night, get home at 9am Saturday morning, sleep for an hour then take the kids down the City.

    The the red shit happened. I stopped going - some people I went with stopped as well, some carried on going. Didn’t see us playing in the Premier League. Then we went back to being Cardiff City so I decided the time was right to start going again.

    Now I just pick and choose what games to watch. If I’ve got other plans then I don’t go.

    Do I still enjoy it - yes of course (especially since Colin took over) but it’s not the be all and all as it once was for me.

    As others have said, Tan fecked up with the red shit but at least he’s tried to make amends. If that’s not good enough for some then that’s their choice. For me personally I go to support the team - I couldn’t really give a shit about Tan any more.

  7. #47

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Absolute classic.

    Bloke that don't go to games bashing our attendances.


    I'm off for a lie down.

  8. #48

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Lecter View Post
    This.

    I used to go to every game I could. To the point that I used to work a night shift on a Friday night, get home at 9am Saturday morning, sleep for an hour then take the kids down the City.

    The the red shit happened. I stopped going - some people I went with stopped as well, some carried on going. Didn’t see us playing in the Premier League. Then we went back to being Cardiff City so I decided the time was right to start going again.

    Now I just pick and choose what games to watch. If I’ve got other plans then I don’t go.

    Do I still enjoy it - yes of course (especially since Colin took over) but it’s not the be all and all as it once was for me.

    As others have said, Tan fecked up with the red shit but at least he’s tried to make amends. If that’s not good enough for some then that’s their choice. For me personally I go to support the team - I couldn’t really give a shit about Tan any more.
    Fair enough, and I reckon there are hundreds of people who watch fewer games than they once did. Your drop in attendance, like mine, coincided with the rebrand. The only difference being that I miss more games than you, but we probably were virtual ever presents for years until a key event happened.

  9. #49

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    Absolute classic.

    Bloke that don't go to games bashing our attendances.


    I'm off for a lie down.
    When you get up, grab a hold of your senses. I am not bashing the crowds, I am offering reasons why crowds are so poor that go beyond an apathetic public.

  10. #50

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Do people really offer 'excuses' for not turning up? Do they need to? If people don't feel that motivated to attend any particular event surely that's their prerogative. I find it comical that some people think that others are obliged to do something because someone else thinks that they should.
    I don't know about you but a Cardiff city team second in the league with a real chance of promotion getting crowds of less than 20 thousand is fecking worrying

    If we don't go up this season and are only mid table next year we will be getting gates like last night's on a regular basis

    If that doesn't worry you then that's fine but it fecking worries me and every Cardiff city fan I talk to

    You can be sure it's worrying the club , whatever your opinion

  11. #51
    International TH63's Avatar
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    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    I agree the crowds aren't great, but I remember rattling around in NP in the 80's with only about 7,000 to keep me company. Atmosphere was better then mind.

    I'm not particularly worried about the attendances, I'm disappointed, but not unduly worried.

  12. #52

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt View Post
    I'd go along with this. At the time, those who stayed away (many extremely loyal) were replaced just like people said they would be. Once the success dries up, the people who attend for reasons other than success have started to be missed.

    I am not saying 100% of the fan loss is down to Tan's antics in the years when he gave a damn. However, people here suggest it's negligible - that is ridiculous. It's easy to compare crowds this season with 2010-11 or 2011-12. The prices are the same, the team are getting better results. I've yet to hear any other reasons being given for the loss of numbers.

    We can all offer anecdotal evidence if fans coming back, or fans not coming back. The fact is both sets exist, and if every fan returned, or if the effect is negligible, then please offer an alternative reason for the lower gates.
    Making a comparison with the early part of this decade is important I feel. The first season Malky was in charge was probably the season where we were most united as fans (the season before red came along). We'd seen progress, by and large, season on season, and the fan base grew.

    When we changed to red and were top of the table, looking like we were going to walk the division, new fans came along looking for promotion, replacing a considerable number that had left over the red shirt affair. When we got to the Premier League, we could have sold lots more tickets than we did, simply because some wanted to watch the Premier league and the big names. These new fans were hardly all that interested in Cardiff City as a lifelong addiction (many years in the top division might have created that but that's another story). Once we went down and it became obvious that a quick return was not going to happen, interest from the newbies wanes and disappears (as a rule).

    I also wonder how much of an affect Russell Slade's team had on attendances. Slade was hardly a popular manager with many complaining about his style of play. We had a couple of big attendances in April 2016 but, by and large, our crowds had suffered. This isn't me having a dig at Slade - I'm just wondering if the number of fans on here, and that I've talked to, that got bored watching his teams is replicated. Are those who joined us during the season we won promotion more likely to disappear if they are bored or don't think we're going to return to the "promised land" anytime soon?

    Ultimately I think our core fan base isn't probably as large as we think. However, we need the floating fans if we're going to have a go at promotion - they're essential in the Premier League, whether we like it or not.

  13. #53

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    I agree the crowds aren't great, but I remember rattling around in NP in the 80's with only about 7,000 to keep me company.
    That was a luxury at times!

  14. #54

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Whats the answer then Sludge. A 10000 drop from the Leeds game.

    If half turn up regularly we will be looking good.

    I would have thought good results up to XMas will see some decent 1/2 ST sales

    Next season i agree. A mid table side from the off and last nights crowd will be a good one.

    In the past weve had ST sales boosted by Cup Finals and big money signings. I dont think we will get to the FA Cup and dont wont the cheque book thrown at it again.

    I think the club is doing its best. Im not convinced our fan base are convinced we are serious contenders yet either. We have gone bargain basement rather than a Bellamy.

  15. #55

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt View Post
    When you get up, grab a hold of your senses. I am not bashing the crowds, I am offering reasons why crowds are so poor that go beyond an apathetic public.
    Yeah and your reason is wrong. 10000 missing from the Leeds game is not down to the owner.
    Those missing because of the owner totals zero.
    No longer fans and not coming back.
    Nothing that can be done about them/you.
    I think that total is negligible anyway.
    What we need is getting our fans who stay at gome through the gate. The Leeds game show they are there

  16. #56

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Yeah and your reason is wrong. 10000 missing from the Leeds game is not down to the owner.
    Those missing because of the owner totals zero.
    I disagree that the total is zero, but agree that 10,000 missing isn't down to Tan.

    I think the question isn't so much finding out why 10,000 have gone missing, more what attracted the extra fans in the first place. Cheap tickets and the chance to beat Leeds, the league leaders, in the process is the answer (probably in that order). To me and probably most of us on here, whether we play Ipswich or Leeds or anyone (except possibly Swansea, Bristol City maybe or other close rivals), our interest in the game is the same. The occasional fan is more likely going to want to watch us play Leeds on a cheapie than watch us play Ipswich. Whether we like that or not is irrelevant, that's how it is.

  17. #57

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    1. That is a case of speaking the bleeding obvious. Sadly, fixing a price point for a business is a tad more complicated.

    2. Assholes have by and large reduced families coming, reduced sponsorship. Them wanting "atmosphere" generally means 90 minutes of eyeballing away fans rather than bothering to watch the football.

    3. Those going to away games but not home games are happy to give opposition clubs money but not the club they claim to support.
    1. Stating the bloody obvious? My point is that 25 is too much. That's a major reason for low attendances.

    2. agreed.

    3. agreed.

    4. What's with the fixation with attendances anyway ? At the end of the day, it wont put feck all in my back pocket.

  18. #58

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    I disagree that the total is zero, but agree that 10,000 missing isn't down to Tan.

    I think the question isn't so much finding out why 10,000 have gone missing, more what attracted the extra fans in the first place. Cheap tickets and the chance to beat Leeds, the league leaders, in the process is the answer (probably in that order). To me and probably most of us on here, whether we play Ipswich or Leeds or anyone (except possibly Swansea, Bristol City maybe or other close rivals), our interest in the game is the same. The occasional fan is more likely going to want to watch us play Leeds on a cheapie than watch us play Ipswich. Whether we like that or not is irrelevant, that's how it is.
    The fans not going because of the owner are zero as they are no longer fans. A mate of mine who is a lot older than me was a big fan in the 70s. But stopped going years ago. Think he just lost interest.Hes no longer a fan. Like BIS an ex fan. Same as the Toshack lot. Ive a mate who quit when we left NP. None of these are coming back

    Its those that still class themselves as fans that we need through the gate.

    For that we need success or an attractive fixture.

    10000 is still a big drop despite it being Leeds and cheap tickets.

    I dont know if the club could have done a deal for the Saturday / Tuesday game be done as a package.

  19. #59

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Does anyone know how the demographics of the crowd pan out agewise compared to previous eras? Younger people have been brought up in an age where they have more entertainment options than many of had when we developed the habit of going 'down the City'.

  20. #60

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Louth View Post
    1. Stating the bloody obvious? My point is that 25 is too much. That's a major reason for low attendances.

    2. agreed.

    3. agreed.

    4. What's with the fixation with attendances anyway ? At the end of the day, it wont put feck all in my back pocket.
    The problem is with reduced attendances we will have to sell. Probably more than just Ken as well.
    Most of us will accept that though. Also no reason why we still couldnt do well. Makes it a lot harder though.

  21. #61

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Does anyone know how the demographics of the crowd pan out agewise compared to previous eras? Younger people have been brought up in an age where they have more entertainment options than many of had when we developed the habit of going 'down the City'.
    There s a decent proportion of younger fans in the Canton.

  22. #62

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I don't know about you but a Cardiff city team second in the league with a real chance of promotion getting crowds of less than 20 thousand is fecking worrying

    If we don't go up this season and are only mid table next year we will be getting gates like last night's on a regular basis

    If that doesn't worry you then that's fine but it fecking worries me and every Cardiff city fan I talk to

    You can be sure it's worrying the club , whatever your opinion
    Your reply doesn't relate to what I posted, of course

  23. #63

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    There s a decent proportion of younger fans in the Canton.
    Indeed. I just wonder how the numbers compare with yesteryear though.

  24. #64

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Louth View Post
    1. Stating the bloody obvious? My point is that 25 is too much. That's a major reason for low attendances.

    2. agreed.

    3. agreed.

    4. What's with the fixation with attendances anyway ? At the end of the day, it wont put feck all in my back pocket.
    1. 25 is one of the lowest in the division. Club need to find a good price point - the tickets can be as low as you want them to be, if the club can't afford the players as a consequence, club will plummet. Crowds then get even smaller.

    4. It's not about you, it's about the club. ST money is an up front cost. Walk up attendance low because people can't be arsed turning up if it's not a fiver to get in, then less money for the club - which then causes issues especially with FFP rules.

  25. #65

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    The people of South Wales are extremely fickle - that goes to the heart of this discussion. It's not a new phenomenon; it goes back many decades.

  26. #66

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    1. That is a case of speaking the bleeding obvious. Sadly, fixing a price point for a business is a tad more complicated.

    2. Assholes have by and large reduced families coming, reduced sponsorship. Them wanting "atmosphere" generally means 90 minutes of eyeballing away fans rather than bothering to watch the football.

    3. Those going to away games but not home games are happy to give opposition clubs money but not the club they claim to support.
    Sorry but your second point just doesn't apply these days.
    There is virtually no trouble at CCS compared to the old days at Ninian Park.

    City have won family club of the year twice.

    There is a whole Family Stand where kids can go at cheap prices with their parents.

    In general football seems to have no problem attracting sponsorship at all. Though
    it is Premier League top heavy and is over reliant on betting firms , Sky and BT.

    My experience is that the assholes only appear at popular away games these days.

    So basically assholes are not the reason for low attendances.

  27. #67

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    16,000 is by no means a great crown but I don't see it as pathetic. How many turned up to watch Burton last night?

  28. #68

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWales View Post
    Sorry but your second point just doesn't apply these days.
    There is virtually no trouble at CCS compared to the old days at Ninian Park.

    City have won family club of the year twice.

    There is a whole Family Stand where kids can go at cheap prices with their parents.

    In general football seems to have no problem attracting sponsorship at all. Though
    it is Premier League top heavy and is over reliant on betting firms , Sky and BT.

    My experience is that the assholes only appear at popular away games these days.

    So basically assholes are not the reason for low attendances.
    I'm well aware of all that.

    Point being, we still have the reputation and like it or not, it'll take a long time for it to go.

    Look at recent Cardiff Council meeting - question about traffic / trains for the Joshua fight, questioner mentioned Cardiff - Millwall. Councillors groaned, guy said along the lines of "yes, the other fight in Cardiff".

    We've reduced trouble within the ground amazingly well. Some want to swap areas of the ground around for "atmosphere". Nothing to do with the increased chances of trouble...

  29. #69

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    16,000 is by no means a great crown but I don't see it as pathetic. How many turned up to watch Burton last night?
    Not a fair comparison. We had more than QPR , Hull , Reading though.

    Disappointing crowd.

  30. #70

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    I'll give you my honest position on this & you can do what you like with it, as these are the facts.

    I started supporting City in 1968. I attended when I could (living 45 miles away did not help) and as I played each Saturday, I was not in a position to watch each week.

    In 1998 I bought a season ticket and I held up until 2014. In those years I had up to 5 season tickets, my wife & 4 sons have all attended games, on those tickets, my one son in particular held a ticket for 10 years (his 1st game was the Leeds FA Cup game).

    I've seen City play 1000+ games and been to around 110 away stadiums. between '98 & '14 I was doing 45~50 games every season.

    Since '14 myself & my son now have membership & pick & choose games.

    The key was that I promised my wife that I'd give it up after 1 season in the top division, (this was around 15 years ago).

    So why give up the season ticket after all those years?
    - Play off final - done
    - FA cup final - done (every round)
    - League cup final - done (every round)
    - Top division - done - big let down - crap atmospheres at some grounds
    - 92 club nearly done (just the new boys + Carlisle!)
    - Malky's sacking & Tan's subsequent vitreol (I met Malky many times & really got to like him)
    - Walking across Stanly Park, an hour after the game with Don't sack Mackay still going
    - Red
    - Club ownership by a person without a clue!
    - My son going to University
    - Not writing every Saturday off spending up to 12 hours travelling to the the length & breadth (except Carlisle!)
    - Sterile football (I do miss Ninian Park)

    Basically it was a relief to stop going. 16 years of addiction. The first year was difficult but I now share my time between non-football, City, Forest Green Rovers (finishing the 92 club), Cinderford Town (rawness of non-league and being able to abuse players & referees & getting abuse back).

    I'm still City through & through, I've been on this website nearly 20 years and still watch Jeff Stelling having orgasms on Satrurday afternoons & the odd Tuesday.

    But I'm not shackled to the club anymore, I can & do pick & choose!

    Take your pick, comment away but them's the facts.

    Been it, done it, seen it, got bored of it & Malky got sacked, that's the crux.

  31. #71

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    I'm well aware of all that.

    Point being, we still have the reputation and like it or not, it'll take a long time for it to go.

    Look at recent Cardiff Council meeting - question about traffic / trains for the Joshua fight, questioner mentioned Cardiff - Millwall. Councillors groaned, guy said along the lines of "yes, the other fight in Cardiff".

    We've reduced trouble within the ground amazingly well. Some want to swap areas of the ground around for "atmosphere". Nothing to do with the increased chances of trouble...
    Well the council guy is probably an egg fan.

    I really think your views are about 10 years out of date. Our assholes are away days only now.

  32. #72

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWales View Post
    Well the council guy is probably and egg fan.

    I really think your views are about 10 years out of date. Our assholes are away days only now.
    "My views"?

    My view is we still have a reputation. You think most people are aware of how well we've improved things? Of course not. I'm well aware assholes generally attend away only in the hope of trouble.

  33. #73

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    "My views"?

    My view is we still have a reputation. You think most people are aware of how well we've improved things? Of course not. I'm well aware assholes generally attend away only in the hope of trouble.
    Then we shall agree to disagree.

    I could almost imagine you want to perpetuate the myth of our old Soul Crew days for
    some odd reason best known to yourself.Odd. Assholes have nothing to do with poor attendance.

    They don't exist at CCS anymore so try barking up another tree.

  34. #74

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    "My views"?

    My view is we still have a reputation. You think most people are aware of how well we've improved things? Of course not. I'm well aware assholes generally attend away only in the hope of trouble.
    There probably are a small amount of people who dont bring kids due to our reputation. But these would be people who have never attended.
    Doesnt account for the disappearance of people in what was I believe a sold out Family Stand.
    Looks like several thousand have disappeared from there. I suppose some have moved on to other areas?

  35. #75

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWales View Post
    Then we shall agree to disagree.

    I could almost imagine you want to perpetuate the myth of our old Soul Crew days for
    some odd reason best known to yourself.Odd. Assholes have nothing to do with poor attendance.

    They don't exist at CCS anymore so try barking up another tree.
    You really are struggling to read, aren't you? My point is about the common view... there are plenty of other reasons as to why 10k didn't attend from the Leeds game. More Leeds fans were present, the rest simply didn't want to pay to get in...

  36. #76

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    16,000 is by no means a great crown but I don't see it as pathetic. How many turned up to watch Burton last night?
    It's pathetic

    Burton doesn't have a population of 350000 and a large catchment area and are not in the running for promotion

    I can only assume this post is a joke

  37. #77

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Your reply doesn't relate to what I posted, of course
    What you posted was nonsense , I don't care a feck about people who don't have much interest in Cardiff city , I am talking about people like someone I know who just doesn't bother anymore who was season ticket holder the season before last


    Typical of so many of our fans

  38. #78

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    It's pathetic

    Burton doesn't have a population of 350000 and a large catchment area and are not in the running for promotion

    I can only assume this post is a joke
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cham...wettbewerb/GB2

    We are halfway down the list of attendances for Championship clubs this season.

    Certainly not great but by no means pathetic.

    In my opinion.

  39. #79

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt View Post
    Tan has to take some responsibility for the pathetic crowds, I think we're now starting to see the real impact of his catastrophic act of vandalism.

    Prices are good, performances are good, chances of promotion are good. Why has there been 6 sub 20000 gates and 1 sub 16000 gate this season? Kids for a quid last night too!
    Sometimes you talk about us as "you", then others you say we or we're. Can you keep your act consistent please. You can blame tan as much as you want, but if people like you stopped going at the outset rather than wait a year, he may not have continued with his decision. I blame you more than him.

  40. #80

    Re: Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

    Thread started by a guy who admits he doesn't go every week, but expects others to. Priceless.

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