Less than 16000, pathetic crowd

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

I reckon more. I also reckon that there are others who have come back who no longer have the same enthusiasm - they no longer have season tickets and no longer attend every home game. Once you realise there are other things out there than just football, I dare say it's not so easy to pick up where you left off.

I'd go along with this. At the time, those who stayed away (many extremely loyal) were replaced just like people said they would be. Once the success dries up, the people who attend for reasons other than success have started to be missed.

I am not saying 100% of the fan loss is down to Tan's antics in the years when he gave a damn. However, people here suggest it's negligible - that is ridiculous. It's easy to compare crowds this season with 2010-11 or 2011-12. The prices are the same, the team are getting better results. I've yet to hear any other reasons being given for the loss of numbers.

We can all offer anecdotal evidence if fans coming back, or fans not coming back. The fact is both sets exist, and if every fan returned, or if the effect is negligible, then please offer an alternative reason for the lower gates.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I'd go along with this. At the time, those who stayed away (many extremely loyal) were replaced just like people said they would be. Once the success dries up, the people who attend for reasons other than success have started to be missed.

I am not saying 100% of the fan loss is down to Tan's antics in the years when he gave a damn. However, people here suggest it's negligible - that is ridiculous. It's easy to compare crowds this season with 2010-11 or 2011-12. The prices are the same, the team are getting better results. I've yet to hear any other reasons being given for the loss of numbers.

We can all offer anecdotal evidence if fans coming back, or fans not coming back. The fact is both sets exist, and if every fan returned, or if the effect is negligible, then please offer an alternative reason for the lower gates.

Making a comparison with the early part of this decade is important I feel. The first season Malky was in charge was probably the season where we were most united as fans (the season before red came along). We'd seen progress, by and large, season on season, and the fan base grew.

When we changed to red and were top of the table, looking like we were going to walk the division, new fans came along looking for promotion, replacing a considerable number that had left over the red shirt affair. When we got to the Premier League, we could have sold lots more tickets than we did, simply because some wanted to watch the Premier league and the big names. These new fans were hardly all that interested in Cardiff City as a lifelong addiction (many years in the top division might have created that but that's another story). Once we went down and it became obvious that a quick return was not going to happen, interest from the newbies wanes and disappears (as a rule).

I also wonder how much of an affect Russell Slade's team had on attendances. Slade was hardly a popular manager with many complaining about his style of play. We had a couple of big attendances in April 2016 but, by and large, our crowds had suffered. This isn't me having a dig at Slade - I'm just wondering if the number of fans on here, and that I've talked to, that got bored watching his teams is replicated. Are those who joined us during the season we won promotion more likely to disappear if they are bored or don't think we're going to return to the "promised land" anytime soon?

Ultimately I think our core fan base isn't probably as large as we think. However, we need the floating fans if we're going to have a go at promotion - they're essential in the Premier League, whether we like it or not.