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Thread: 307 mass shooting

  1. #41

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    I sometimes wonder if some of the above posters who pontificate about “religion” have ever met a Christian? Unless I am unique (which I know I’m not, as I know a lot of Christians),

    I…

    Am not afraid of death (the manner of my dying is a different matter!)

    Am not holier than thou/superior, in fact the opposite, because as much as I try, I know I can never be truly Christ-like because I am a human being

    Have no desire to harm anyone of a different faith

    Have no desire to subjugate the masses

    Have no desire to indoctrinate anyone – I witness to being a Christian by the way I try to live my life but whether others wish to emulate that, that’s up to them

    Am not “some sanctimonious arsehole judging others for their beliefs or non beliefs”. That’s not to say I don’t feel sad when I look around and see what a mess some people make of their lives and the way the world in general is going; but this is to be expected of course as society has mostly rejected Christ and his teaching.

    Will go to heaven simply because I believe in Jesus Christ, not because of any good works I may have done (I do good works because I believe that is what Jesus expects me to do, not for reward) and because I own up to being a sinner (yes, that word, how very non-PC!).

  2. #42

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    The gunman who slaughtered 26 people at a Texas church was able to buy weapons because the Air Force failed to report his domestic violence conviction to the federal database that is used to conduct background checks on would-be gun purchasers, authorities said Monday.

    Federal officials said the Air Force didn’t submit Devin Patrick Kelley’s criminal history even though it was required to do so by Pentagon rules.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ckground-check

  3. #43

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueArmy 86 View Post
    In America so far this year. That's 309 days. A mass shooting is 4 or more victims. not including the shooter. Another church in Texas been targeted, 30 plus killed.

    Such a ****ed up country!

    we do seem to hear about these incidents pretty frequently now don't we blue
    do you think its a case of more of this shitt happening or
    is it getting reported about more now ?
    cos it does seem to be happening a lot at an alarming rate mate

  4. #44

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I sometimes wonder if some of the above posters who pontificate about “religion” have ever met a Christian? Unless I am unique (which I know I’m not, as I know a lot of Christians),

    I…

    Am not afraid of death (the manner of my dying is a different matter!)

    Am not holier than thou/superior, in fact the opposite, because as much as I try, I know I can never be truly Christ-like because I am a human being

    Have no desire to harm anyone of a different faith

    Have no desire to subjugate the masses

    Have no desire to indoctrinate anyone – I witness to being a Christian by the way I try to live my life but whether others wish to emulate that, that’s up to them

    Am not “some sanctimonious arsehole judging others for their beliefs or non beliefs”. That’s not to say I don’t feel sad when I look around and see what a mess some people make of their lives and the way the world in general is going; but this is to be expected of course as society has mostly rejected Christ and his teaching.

    Will go to heaven simply because I believe in Jesus Christ, not because of any good works I may have done (I do good works because I believe that is what Jesus expects me to do, not for reward) and because I own up to being a sinner (yes, that word, how very non-PC!).


    Don't you worry about being non pc Blue remember thought crime is not a crime

  5. #45
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    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I sometimes wonder if some of the above posters who pontificate about “religion” have ever met a Christian? Unless I am unique (which I know I’m not, as I know a lot of Christians),

    I…

    Am not afraid of death (the manner of my dying is a different matter!)

    Am not holier than thou/superior, in fact the opposite, because as much as I try, I know I can never be truly Christ-like because I am a human being

    Have no desire to harm anyone of a different faith

    Have no desire to subjugate the masses

    Have no desire to indoctrinate anyone – I witness to being a Christian by the way I try to live my life but whether others wish to emulate that, that’s up to them

    Am not “some sanctimonious arsehole judging others for their beliefs or non beliefs”. That’s not to say I don’t feel sad when I look around and see what a mess some people make of their lives and the way the world in general is going; but this is to be expected of course as society has mostly rejected Christ and his teaching.

    Will go to heaven simply because I believe in Jesus Christ, not because of any good works I may have done (I do good works because I believe that is what Jesus expects me to do, not for reward) and because I own up to being a sinner (yes, that word, how very non-PC!).
    Agree with all of the above.

    For me, my grandfather was the man I felt most lived up to “Christian values” in terms of the way he conducted himself and treated others. But he had no religion at all.

    I know I’m biased, but if all believers of whatever faith, led their lives like him, the world would be a much better place.

    For me, we have to many people following “man-made” religious laws and not enough following Christ’s teaching of live to one another.

    And here endeth today’s sermon.

  6. #46

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I sometimes wonder if some of the above posters who pontificate about “religion” have ever met a Christian? Unless I am unique (which I know I’m not, as I know a lot of Christians),

    I…

    Am not afraid of death (the manner of my dying is a different matter!)

    Am not holier than thou/superior, in fact the opposite, because as much as I try, I know I can never be truly Christ-like because I am a human being

    Have no desire to harm anyone of a different faith

    Have no desire to subjugate the masses

    Have no desire to indoctrinate anyone – I witness to being a Christian by the way I try to live my life but whether others wish to emulate that, that’s up to them

    Am not “some sanctimonious arsehole judging others for their beliefs or non beliefs”. That’s not to say I don’t feel sad when I look around and see what a mess some people make of their lives and the way the world in general is going; but this is to be expected of course as society has mostly rejected Christ and his teaching.

    Will go to heaven simply because I believe in Jesus Christ, not because of any good works I may have done (I do good works because I believe that is what Jesus expects me to do, not for reward) and because I own up to being a sinner (yes, that word, how very non-PC!).
    Hi gofer

    Are you saying you will go to heaven because you believe in Jesus Christ and people who don't believe in Jesus Christ won't go ?

    I thought god was a forgiving type ?

    If he is why won't he let people in who are not Christians ? , If this is what you are saying ?

    Regards

  7. #47

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    "Christian values" is a term used by christians who have hijacked the term "human values" in order to put themselves above the rest of us.

    Why are "Christian values" any better than the values of Judaism (The root of Christianity and Islam) or Hinduism, Seikhism, Buddism?

    Religions are forced upon the children of adherents in order that the religion will survive. Is there any religion in the world that doesn’t force children to follow?

  8. #48

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Joe Walsh, a former congressman, controversial shockjock and idiot tweets:


    "I have a right to speak my mind, practice my religion, freely assemble, and carry a firearm. These rights come from God, not government."


    I don't know whether he really believes that but it seems there is a large number of Americans who do. If I lived in the States, that kind of outlook would worry me a lot.

  9. #49
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    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Joe Walsh, a former congressman, controversial shockjock and idiot tweets:


    "I have a right to speak my mind, practice my religion, freely assemble, and carry a firearm. These rights come from God, not government."


    I don't know whether he really believes that but it seems there is a large number of Americans who do. If I lived in the States, that kind of outlook would worry me a lot.
    http://news.sky.com/story/woman-lose...inger-11117180

  10. #50

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    Agree with all of the above.

    For me, my grandfather was the man I felt most lived up to “Christian values” in terms of the way he conducted himself and treated others. But he had no religion at all.

    I know I’m biased, but if all believers of whatever faith, led their lives like him, the world would be a much better place.

    For me, we have to many people following “man-made” religious laws and not enough following Christ’s teaching of live to one another.

    And here endeth today’s sermon.
    How do we know Christ's teaching was one of love ?

    The Bible ?

    That was written many years after his death , if he even existed !

    There is no evidence whatsoever that there is a god , none

    Nobody has gone to heaven and come back to tell us how great it is ......you would have thought that God , who is supposed to be all powerful would have made someone do that to make sure we all loved each other , protected the planet and animals and stopped children starving all over the world ?

    I am with Richard Dawkins on this , it might be a good book but it's fiction

  11. #51

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Good on her

  12. #52

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Joe Walsh, a former congressman, controversial shockjock and idiot tweets:


    "I have a right to speak my mind, practice my religion, freely assemble, and carry a firearm. These rights come from God, not government."


    I don't know whether he really believes that but it seems there is a large number of Americans who do. If I lived in the States, that kind of outlook would worry me a lot.
    Did you see that interview with the local sherrif ?

    Guns don't kill people , people do

    Fecking hell

    Those Texas police and some of the people they interviewed looked like they came straight from the set of the Texas chainsaw massacre or the hills have eyes

    In god we trust ff sake

    Well he didn't help out those people murdered by the gun yesterday did he !!

  13. #53
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    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Good on her
    Indeed. Fire her for expressing her first amendment right, but God help anyone who tries to restrict her second amendment right.

  14. #54

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Joe Walsh, a former congressman, controversial shockjock and idiot tweets:


    "I have a right to speak my mind, practice my religion, freely assemble, and carry a firearm. These rights come from God, not government."


    I don't know whether he really believes that but it seems there is a large number of Americans who do. If I lived in the States, that kind of outlook would worry me a lot.
    Great guitarist though

  15. #55

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Great guitarist though
    Which band is God in?

  16. #56

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    How do we know Christ's teaching was one of love ?

    The Bible ?

    That was written many years after his death , if he even existed !

    There is no evidence whatsoever that there is a god , none

    Nobody has gone to heaven and come back to tell us how great it is ......you would have thought that God , who is supposed to be all powerful would have made someone do that to make sure we all loved each other , protected the planet and animals and stopped children starving all over the world ?

    I am with Richard Dawkins on this , it might be a good book but it's fiction
    There have been thousands of gods worshipped throughout history and in all different locations around the world - and we all know which one most people believe in i.e. the one they were indoctrinated with as a child. Religions generally travel along the same routes as languages and Empires. That's why you are likely to be a Catholic if you speak Spanish etc. And what most current-day Abrahamists would have believed in just over two thousand years ago is anyone's guess. Depends on what bed they were born in methinks.

  17. #57

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by I.8.POLITICAL.CORRECTNESS View Post
    Don't you worry about being non pc Blue remember thought crime is not a crime
    What's he said that's not PC? Why do people who talk about non PC never have any idea what it actually is?

  18. #58

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    What's he said that's not PC? Why do people who talk about non PC never have any idea what it actually is?
    i was agreeing with what he was suggesting in his post
    and was just commenting on his comment about being non-pc
    because what he posted was not offensive it did not seek to marginalize any sets of groups it was rational
    it wasn't tippy tappy around the subject trying hard not to upset somebody, because of what "group" they see themselves as part of
    in actual fact he was very pc with his post lol

    I think I know what political correctness is

  19. #59

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    There have been thousands of gods worshipped throughout history and in all different locations around the world - and we all know which one most people believe in i.e. the one they were indoctrinated with as a child. Religions generally travel along the same routes as languages and Empires. That's why you are likely to be a Catholic if you speak Spanish etc. And what most current-day Abrahamists would have believed in just over two thousand years ago is anyone's guess. Depends on what bed they were born in methinks.
    We've been gong down the wrong path for millennia, and Zeus is gonna be pretty pissed off when he comes back.

  20. #60

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Hi gofer

    Are you saying you will go to heaven because you believe in Jesus Christ and people who don't believe in Jesus Christ won't go ?

    I thought god was a forgiving type ?

    If he is why won't he let people in who are not Christians ? , If this is what you are saying ?

    Regards
    Good evening sir.

    Q.1: Yes.

    Q.2: Heaven is a place for believers/followers of Jesus. Jesus made an extraordinary, almost arrogant claim – no one comes to the Father except by me. Why would non-Christians want or even expect to go there? Surely to them it's a fictional place and Christians are deluding themselves.

    God is forgiving but to obtain forgiveness surely first you have to acknowledge that there is something that needs to be forgiven and then ask for forgiveness! That tends to fly in the face of relativism which today's society is based upon - what feels right to me must be right etc. Hence my suggestion that the word “sinner” is a very non-PC expression today – if I called you a sinner I suspect you might be a little upset? The fact that someone professes to be a Christian is an acknowledgment that he/she is a sinner and therefore no different to anyone else in that sense, as we ALL fall short of being the person that Jesus wants us to be. The big difference is that the Christian knows that he/she falls short but has the humility to recognise this.

  21. #61

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    What's he said that's not PC? Why do people who talk about non PC never have any idea what it actually is?
    See my reply to Sludge Factory.

  22. #62

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    How do we know Christ's teaching was one of love ?

    The Bible ?

    That was written many years after his death , if he even existed !

    There is no evidence whatsoever that there is a god , none

    Nobody has gone to heaven and come back to tell us how great it is ......you would have thought that God , who is supposed to be all powerful would have made someone do that to make sure we all loved each other , protected the planet and animals and stopped children starving all over the world ?

    I am with Richard Dawkins on this , it might be a good book but it's fiction
    This is a well worn argument, sorry. Even Taunton Blue Genie will tell you that he has never denied the existence of the historical Jesus (as he once reminded me).

  23. #63

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Monk View Post
    "Christian values" is a term used by christians who have hijacked the term "human values" in order to put themselves above the rest of us.

    Why are "Christian values" any better than the values of Judaism (The root of Christianity and Islam) or Hinduism, Seikhism, Buddism?

    Religions are forced upon the children of adherents in order that the religion will survive. Is there any religion in the world that doesn’t force children to follow?


    Yes, Christianity, if you consider Christianity to be a religion (which I don't), i.e. not a relationship with a person, just a follower of an ideology or philosophy. My two sons grew up in a Christian home and were free to choose their own path. They had ample opportunity to turn away (away at university, leaving home to get married etc.) but they have not. We never coerced them - what teenagers would accept that! There is an expression "to love people into the kingdom" - do you seriously think that anyone today could be bullied into becoming a Christian?

  24. #64

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Good evening sir.

    Q.1: Yes.

    Q.2: Heaven is a place for believers/followers of Jesus. Jesus made an extraordinary, almost arrogant claim – no one comes to the Father except by me. Why would non-Christians want or even expect to go there? Surely to them it's a fictional place and Christians are deluding themselves.

    God is forgiving but to obtain forgiveness surely first you have to acknowledge that there is something that needs to be forgiven and then ask for forgiveness! That tends to fly in the face of relativism which today's society is based upon - what feels right to me must be right etc. Hence my suggestion that the word “sinner” is a very non-PC expression today – if I called you a sinner I suspect you might be a little upset? The fact that someone professes to be a Christian is an acknowledgment that he/she is a sinner and therefore no different to anyone else in that sense, as we ALL fall short of being the person that Jesus wants us to be. The big difference is that the Christian knows that he/she falls short but has the humility to recognise this.
    I am not a Christian , have made many mistakes in my life , been arrested and admit I am not perfect

    If there is a heaven I believe I will be let in because I have always done my best to help people

    But I don't think there is a heaven or a god

    Regards

  25. #65

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I am not a Christian , have made many mistakes in my life , been arrested and admit I am not perfect

    If there is a heaven I believe I will be let in because I have always done my best to help people

    But I don't think there is a heaven or a god

    Regards
    You’ll be alright Sludge, being an ex cop I will be on St Michaels pay roll up there doing security and i’ll Let you in after you’ve done your purgatory for some of that shocking metal you’re into 😉👍

  26. #66

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    [/COLOR]

    Yes, Christianity, if you consider Christianity to be a religion (which I don't), i.e. not a relationship with a person, just a follower of an ideology or philosophy. My two sons grew up in a Christian home and were free to choose their own path. They had ample opportunity to turn away (away at university, leaving home to get married etc.) but they have not. We never coerced them - what teenagers would accept that! There is an expression "to love people into the kingdom" - do you seriously think that anyone today could be bullied into becoming a Christian?
    My sisters kid was brought up by my sister and her husband who are both devout , god fearing Catholics

    Is it any surprise she has turned out the same ?

    The difference is she is very bright and studying anthropology and evolution at king's college London and surely she will over the course of her studies realise that the earth is billions of years old and that , in my opinion , creationism is nonsense

    At least l hope she does

  27. #67

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    You’ll be alright Sludge, being an ex cop I will be on St Michaels pay roll up there doing security and i’ll Let you in after you’ve done your purgatory for some of that shocking metal you’re into 😉👍
    Nice one officer

  28. #68

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I am not a Christian , have made many mistakes in my life , been arrested and admit I am not perfect

    If there is a heaven I believe I will be let in because I have always done my best to help people

    But I don't think there is a heaven or a god

    Regards
    OK, so don't worry about it then. As Dawkins has said - "there probably is no God, so stop worrying and get on with your life". Remember the famous slogan on the side of the bus -

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ri...0jygJyyvms-EM:

  29. #69

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    My sisters kid was brought up by my sister and her husband who are both devout , god fearing Catholics

    Is it any surprise she has turned out the same ?

    The difference is she is very bright and studying anthropology and evolution at king's college London and surely she will over the course of her studies realise that the earth is billions of years old and that , in my opinion , creationism is nonsense

    At least l hope she does
    Maybe. On the other hand she may discover that the age of the earth has no relevance whatsoever to matters of the human condition and the chaos in the world.

  30. #70

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Maybe. On the other hand she may discover that the age of the earth has no relevance whatsoever to matters of the human condition and the chaos in the world.
    But Christians believe the Bible to be the word of God and that the earth was created in 10000 years

    Why wasn't there any mention of dinosaurs in the Bible ?

    God is supposed to be omnipresent ......everywhere , all the time , watching over us ......you don't seriously believe that do you ?

    Why didn't he stop Adolf Hitler ?

    Why does he allow people to die in tower blocks in horrible fires , some of them young children ?

    Why does a young doctor get killed in a car crash when he had so many lives to save and a bright future ?

    God is all powerful isn't he ?

    I simply cannot accept there is a god if he is supposed to be everywhere at all times and all powerful

    Regards

  31. #71

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    [/COLOR]

    Yes, Christianity, if you consider Christianity to be a religion (which I don't), i.e. not a relationship with a person, just a follower of an ideology or philosophy. My two sons grew up in a Christian home and were free to choose their own path. They had ample opportunity to turn away (away at university, leaving home to get married etc.) but they have not. We never coerced them - what teenagers would accept that! There is an expression "to love people into the kingdom" - do you seriously think that anyone today could be bullied into becoming a Christian?
    So they had to wait until they were teenagers and went to Uni or left home to get married before they could make their own decision? (Meaning they were about 18 years old, and therefore adults, not children)
    In the meantime, up until those opportunities came about, were they taught your religion by you and other followers?
    If one of your children at the age of 10 had said “I no longer want to follow your religion, I don’t believe any of it”, would you have allowed them that privilege? (Don’t forget, telling lies is a sin)

  32. #72

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    [/COLOR]

    Yes, Christianity, if you consider Christianity to be a religion (which I don't), i.e. not a relationship with a person, just a follower of an ideology or philosophy. My two sons grew up in a Christian home and were free to choose their own path. They had ample opportunity to turn away (away at university, leaving home to get married etc.) but they have not. We never coerced them - what teenagers would accept that! There is an expression "to love people into the kingdom" - do you seriously think that anyone today could be bullied into becoming a Christian?
    You didn’t answer my first question.

  33. #73

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    [/COLOR]

    Yes, Christianity, if you consider Christianity to be a religion (which I don't), i.e. not a relationship with a person, just a follower of an ideology or philosophy. My two sons grew up in a Christian home and were free to choose their own path. They had ample opportunity to turn away (away at university, leaving home to get married etc.) but they have not. We never coerced them - what teenagers would accept that! There is an expression "to love people into the kingdom" - do you seriously think that anyone today could be bullied into becoming a Christian?
    It is pretty obvious that a religious upbringing affects the belief systems of children in quite a fundamental manner. If people were allowed to be religion-free until adulthood the results would be different as to how they perceive the world and the eventual religious or non-religious path that they would follow. Creating a belief system in a child is a very strong influence and a considerable traction, something that has been recognised by purveyors of religious and political dogmas throughout time.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathl...b_5664805.html

    "In our first study, we found that children’s judgments about characters in biblical narratives were strongly affected by their upbringing. Children who had had some form of religious education - via church, parochial school or both — generally judged the central character to be a real person. Children who did not have religious education — who did not go to church and went to a secular school — largely judged the central character to be fictional.

    In a follow-up study, we obtained a similar pattern for what we might call quasi-biblical stories — stories that included miraculous events but not ones that children would read about in the Bible. For example, we told children a story about the parting of the mountains. Religious children were more likely than non-religious children to think that the main character was real."

  34. #74

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    God is supposed to be omnipresent ......everywhere , all the time , watching over us ......you don't seriously believe that do you ?
    He's been replaced by the Snoopers Charter

  35. #75

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    It is pretty obvious that a religious upbringing affects the belief systems of children in quite a fundamental manner. If people were allowed to be religion-free until adulthood the results would be different as to how they perceive the world and the eventual religious or non-religious path that they would follow. Creating a belief system in a child is a very strong influence and a considerable traction, something that has been recognised by purveyors of religious and political dogmas throughout time.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathl...b_5664805.html

    "In our first study, we found that children’s judgments about characters in biblical narratives were strongly affected by their upbringing. Children who had had some form of religious education - via church, parochial school or both — generally judged the central character to be a real person. Children who did not have religious education — who did not go to church and went to a secular school — largely judged the central character to be fictional.

    In a follow-up study, we obtained a similar pattern for what we might call quasi-biblical stories — stories that included miraculous events but not ones that children would read about in the Bible. For example, we told children a story about the parting of the mountains. Religious children were more likely than non-religious children to think that the main character was real."
    I'm quite sure this is correct, in fact thinking about it, it is stating the bleeding obvious as they say. However surely it works both ways? If children are told that Christianity is a load of bull, should we be surprised that they reject it?

  36. #76

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Monk View Post
    So they had to wait until they were teenagers and went to Uni or left home to get married before they could make their own decision? (Meaning they were about 18 years old, and therefore adults, not children)
    I say again, what modern teenagers would blindly follow what their parents say/do? I was brought up in a Christian home myself but at secondary school I rejected Christianity totally (aged about 14 probably). This was because I was very interested in science and thought, as many people do, that science had all the answers and had debunked Christianity as a myth/nice story. I became a Christian in my early 40’s because I took the trouble to stand back and take a serious look at it.

    In the meantime, up until those opportunities came about, were they taught your religion by you and other followers?
    They had lots of school friends from secular homes but still came to church with us and learnt about Jesus, yes. Where else would they learn it? They didn’t have to do that as undoubtedly they were ridiculed by some for it.

    If one of your children at the age of 10 had said “I no longer want to follow your religion, I don’t believe any of it”, would you have allowed them that privilege? (Don’t forget, telling lies is a sin)
    Of course I would. After all I did exactly that! Not sure if at 10 a child is mature enough to make such a decision though?

  37. #77

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Monk View Post
    You didn’t answer my first question.
    Sorry, what first question?

  38. #78
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    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Of course I would. After all I did exactly that! Not sure if at 10 a child is mature enough to make such a decision though?
    Mature enough to reject or blindly follow their parents beliefs? As you said to a different point - it works both ways.

    My parents were Congregationalists (Roath Park Congregationalist Church originally) - what became the United Reformed Church. I was brought up to go to church, Sunday School and the local scouts. However, when I was 12 I went to a series of church membership evening meetings with half a dozen others my age with the minister at The Manse. These went through the whole gammut of beliefs and practices in the church and the normal outcome was that a few weeks later the group would be accepted into the church at a brief ceremony during the service. After 6 weeks - aged 12 - I decided I was an atheist and never went to church again (until this summer for my dad's funeral). I also left the scouts at that time because of all the god and queen nonsense at the start of each meeting. And just to complete my transformation from a god-following dib-dib-dibber I bought and read The Communist Manifesto.

    My brother went through the same thing a little later and turned into a Buddhist.

    My Mam and Dad carried on in the church - she as a conformist; he as a self-labelling 'heretic' along with a few of his non-conformist mates. I doubt he ever believed in god or the devil or heaven or hell. The called himself (and others like him) a secular Christian.

    Maybe you are right that 10 is too young to form a view on these big issues, but 12 isn't.

  39. #79

    Re: 307 mass shooting

    God did nothing about that shooter in the church

    “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

  40. #80
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    Re: 307 mass shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    God did nothing about that shooter in the church

    “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
    I know I'm wasting my time here, but God gives us free choice. Ideally to do good, but some of us also do evil.

    That said, I too find it very difficult to reconcile myself with the doctrine when such tragedies happen.

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