307 mass shooting

[Gofer Blue]

So they had to wait until they were teenagers and went to Uni or left home to get married before they could make their own decision? (Meaning they were about 18 years old, and therefore adults, not children)
I say again, what modern teenagers would blindly follow what their parents say/do? I was brought up in a Christian home myself but at secondary school I rejected Christianity totally (aged about 14 probably). This was because I was very interested in science and thought, as many people do, that science had all the answers and had debunked Christianity as a myth/nice story. I became a Christian in my early 40’s because I took the trouble to stand back and take a serious look at it.

In the meantime, up until those opportunities came about, were they taught your religion by you and other followers?
They had lots of school friends from secular homes but still came to church with us and learnt about Jesus, yes. Where else would they learn it? They didn’t have to do that as undoubtedly they were ridiculed by some for it.

If one of your children at the age of 10 had said “I no longer want to follow your religion, I don’t believe any of it”, would you have allowed them that privilege? (Don’t forget, telling lies is a sin)

Of course I would. After all I did exactly that! Not sure if at 10 a child is mature enough to make such a decision though?

[jon1959]

Of course I would. After all I did exactly that! Not sure if at 10 a child is mature enough to make such a decision though?

Mature enough to reject or blindly follow their parents beliefs? As you said to a different point - it works both ways.

My parents were Congregationalists (Roath Park Congregationalist Church originally) - what became the United Reformed Church. I was brought up to go to church, Sunday School and the local scouts. However, when I was 12 I went to a series of church membership evening meetings with half a dozen others my age with the minister at The Manse. These went through the whole gammut of beliefs and practices in the church and the normal outcome was that a few weeks later the group would be accepted into the church at a brief ceremony during the service. After 6 weeks - aged 12 - I decided I was an atheist and never went to church again (until this summer for my dad's funeral). I also left the scouts at that time because of all the god and queen nonsense at the start of each meeting. And just to complete my transformation from a god-following dib-dib-dibber I bought and read The Communist Manifesto.

My brother went through the same thing a little later and turned into a Buddhist.

My Mam and Dad carried on in the church - she as a conformist; he as a self-labelling 'heretic' along with a few of his non-conformist mates. I doubt he ever believed in god or the devil or heaven or hell. The called himself (and others like him) a secular Christian.

Maybe you are right that 10 is too young to form a view on these big issues, but 12 isn't.

[I.8.POLITICAL.CORRECTNESS]

Mature enough to reject or blindly follow their parents beliefs? As you said to a different point - it works both ways.

My parents were Congregationalists (Roath Park Congregationalist Church originally) - what became the United Reformed Church. I was brought up to go to church, Sunday School and the local scouts. However, when I was 12 I went to a series of church membership evening meetings with half a dozen others my age with the minister at The Manse. These went through the whole gammut of beliefs and practices in the church and the normal outcome was that a few weeks later the group would be accepted into the church at a brief ceremony during the service. After 6 weeks - aged 12 - I decided I was an atheist and never went to church again (until this summer for my dad's funeral). I also left the scouts at that time because of all the god and queen nonsense at the start of each meeting. And just to complete my transformation from a god-following dib-dib-dibber I bought and read The Communist Manifesto.

My brother went through the same thing a little later and turned into a Buddhist.

My Mam and Dad carried on in the church - she as a conformist; he as a self-labelling 'heretic' along with a few of his non-conformist mates. I doubt he ever believed in god or the devil or heaven or hell. The called himself (and others like him) a secular Christian.

Maybe you are right that 10 is too young to form a view on these big issues, but 12 isn't.

a book you may enjoy on the subject Jon by the late Christopher Hitchens
god is not great : how religion poisons everything

[jon1959]

a book you may enjoy on the subject Jon by the late Christopher Hitchens
god is not great : how religion poisons everything

Thanks - it's on my 'to read' list.

[Wales-Bales]

a book you may enjoy on the subject Jon by the late Christopher Hitchens
god is not great : how religion poisons everything

Sapiens : A Brief History of Humankind is also a good book, as it goes right back to the very beggining of human development, and it explains how humans are more likely to believe in fairytales than the cold hard truth. Rulers and politians have been using this knowledge against us for thousands of years.

While we may like to think we are smart because we can now see religion for what it is, the reality is they have developed a whole new bag of tricks which can be used to manipulate us and keep us in line. With the advent of TV, radio and the mass media, religion soon became superfluous to requirements as far more effective methods of control came in being. Religion was also expensive to run, and the clergy wanted a slice of the pie too. They still control huge assets which was payment for keeping the population under surveillance and teaching them how to think and behave, but as an organisation they are pretty much finished.

BTW who do you think it was that first put these ideas into our heads that religion was a load of old tosh?

[I.8.POLITICAL.CORRECTNESS]

Sapiens : A Brief History of Humankind is also a good book, as it goes right back to the very beggining of human development, and it explains how humans are more likely to believe in fairytales than the cold hard truth. Rulers and politians have been using this knowledge against us for thousands of years.

While we may like to think we are smart because we can now see religion for what it is, the reality is they have developed a whole new bag of tricks which can be used to manipulate us and keep us in line. With the advent of TV, radio and the mass media, religion soon became superfluous to requirements as far more effective methods of control came in being. Religion was also expensive to run, and the clergy wanted a slice of the pie too. They still control huge assets which was payment for keeping the population under surveillance and teaching them how to think and behave, but as an organisation they are pretty much finished.

BTW who do you think it was that first put these ideas into our heads that religion was a load of old tosh?

Sapiens : A Brief History of Humankind is also a good book, as it goes right back to the very beggining of human development, and it explains how humans are more likely to believe in fairytales than the cold hard truth. Rulers and politians have been using this knowledge against us for thousands of years.

While we may like to think we are smart because we can now see religion for what it is, the reality is they have developed a whole new bag of tricks which can be used to manipulate us and keep us in line. With the advent of TV, radio and the mass media, religion soon became superfluous to requirements as far more effective methods of control came in being. Religion was also expensive to run, and the clergy wanted a slice of the pie too. They still control huge assets which was payment for keeping the population under surveillance and teaching them how to think and behave, but as an organisation they are pretty much finished.

BTW who do you think it was that first put these ideas into our heads that religion was a load of old tosh?

I just had a quick peruse of this review from the guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...al-noah-harari
that actually looks very interesting Bales Thank you mate
thats going on my Christmas list

your question has kind of stumped me with it being so philosophical
but for me personally it was
my earliest possible memory would be when I was 6 years of age
I had a cream coloured Labrador dog named Sandy.
One winter on a walk over the woods in the snow he ran across the ice on the river the ice broke and he went under and got trapped
firemen even waded in on with a rope attached to them to bring him out gave him the kiss the life
as I prayed for Sandy to be alright , he wasn't he died
then I got slightly older 8 or 9 maybe
and I possibly just did not buy it and religious people always came across as untrustworthy cruel hypocrites I don't think it was an individual or a group of of people generally , something instinctively felt it was a form of control "do this or you will be hurt"
my fathers side of the family my Grandfathers funeral service was last year was a humanist service
my mothers parents they was in a church with mass (optional)
Maybe media,tv ect has had an impact or maybe as you get a bit older you read more literature, get information I don't know,
Wasn't karl Marx that quoted something about religion being the opium to the people (I'm not sure on the exact quote)

what about you mate ?

[Wales-Bales]

I just had a quick peruse of this review from the guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...al-noah-harari
that actually looks very interesting Bales Thank you mate
thats going on my Christmas list

your question has kind of stumped me with it being so philosophical
but for me personally it was
my earliest possible memory would be when I was 6 years of age
I had a cream coloured Labrador dog named Sandy.
One winter on a walk over the woods in the snow he ran across the ice on the river the ice broke and he went under and got trapped
firemen even waded in on with a rope attached to them to bring him out gave him the kiss the life
as I prayed for Sandy to be alright , he wasn't he died
then I got slightly older 8 or 9 maybe
and I possibly just did not buy it and religious people always came across as untrustworthy cruel hypocrites I don't think it was an individual or a group of of people generally , something instinctively felt it was a form of control "do this or you will be hurt"
my fathers side of the family my Grandfathers funeral service was last year was a humanist service
my mothers parents they was in a church with mass (optional)
Maybe media,tv ect has had an impact or maybe as you get a bit older you read more literature, get information I don't know,
Wasn't karl Marx that quoted something about religion being the opium to the people (I'm not sure on the exact quote)

what about you mate ?

I think the answer is in the above mentioned book. You can make people believe absolutely anything if you know how. It worked for around 2,000 years regarding religion, but I'm guessing that with the advent TV, radio & media, religion was allowed or even encouraged to die, as it had already served it's purpose. There is also the socialist/communist subversive element which included the destruction of religion as a core doctrine, but by this time the Tavistock Institute and others like Edward Bernays had already worked out how to replace it.

Once you know the rules of the game the role of slogans, repeat messaging, news by ommision, nudge units, propaganda, misinformation/disinformation, conformation bias, bogeymen, etc, becomes very clear. We are like putty in the hand for those who have agendas and big ideas to implement

[I.8.POLITICAL.CORRECTNESS]

I think the answer is in the above mentioned book. You can make people believe absolutely anything if you know how. It worked for around 2,000 years regarding religion, but I'm guessing that with the advent TV, radio & media, religion was allowed or even encouraged to die, as it had already served it's purpose. There is also the socialist/communist subversive element which included the destruction of religion as a core doctrine, but by this time the Tavistock Institute and others like Edward Bernays had already worked out how to replace it.

Once you know the rules of the game the role of slogans, repeat messaging, news by ommision, nudge units, propaganda, misinformation/disinformation, conformation bias, bogeymen, etc, becomes very clear. We are like putty in the hand for those who have agendas and big ideas to implement

I am sure I have watched an interview or a documentary about the Tavistock Institute
about their methods of social engineering and brainwashing
I understand its non profit charity too ?

[Tokyo Blue]

a book you may enjoy on the subject Jon by the late Christopher Hitchens
god is not great : how religion poisons everything

Awesome book. Hitchens could've made a speech claiming that the grass is blue and the sky is green and I think he might almost sway my views on that. You might say that his political views weren't always popular, but regardless of that he was a great speaker and an intellectual powerhouse. I've spent countless hours watching YouTube videos of him and wishing we still had him here today.

[I.8.POLITICAL.CORRECTNESS]

Awesome book. Hitchens could've made a speech claiming that the grass is blue and the sky is green and I think he might almost sway my views on that. You might say that his political views weren't always popular, but regardless of that he was a great speaker and an intellectual powerhouse. I've spent countless hours watching YouTube videos of him and wishing we still had him here today.

so so true Blue,
his videos have me in stiches