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Thread: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

  1. #1

    The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT


  2. #2

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Llanedeyrnblue View Post
    It amazes me how the rich and powerful are able to successfully negotiate their tax obligations with HMRC while the likes of the ordinary person would be jailed for doing so.

  3. #3

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    It amazes me how the rich and powerful are able to successfully negotiate their tax obligations with HMRC while the likes of the ordinary person would be jailed for doing so.
    Presumably because the former are wealthy enough to employ the services of sharp accountants.

  4. #4

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Presumably because the former are wealthy enough to employ the services of sharp accountants.
    And the government are obliging enough to lay the carpet of avoidance methods for these accountants to cultivate and mow.

  5. #5

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Presumably because the former are wealthy enough to employ the services of sharp accountants.
    The rich getting richer is a good thing, haven't you heard of the trickle down effect...

    53-Graphic.jpg

  6. #6

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT


  7. #7

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    And the government are obliging enough to lay the carpet of avoidance methods for these accountants to cultivate and mow.
    Or more accurately, the tax system is so ****ing overcomplicated, loopholes are always found.

    More money is lost through illegal evasion than legal avoidance anyway.

  8. #8

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    Or more accurately, the tax system is so ****ing overcomplicated, loopholes are always found.

    More money is lost through illegal evasion than legal avoidance anyway.
    Found or built-in?

  9. #9

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Found or built-in?
    Found.

    You seem to act as if it's a massive conspiracy. It isn't. HMRC for example can retrospectively act.

    Example; in IT there were numerous schemes where income went to off shore Trust who then "loaned" you the money; every year loans would be written off. It was ridiculously obvious the intent - I told one of those accountancy companies spinning it to **** right off. For one thing, should that Trust be taken over and loans demanded, you're financially ****ed. Equally, only way to prevent that is documentation up front proving loans would not be paid - which exposes the concept.

    From the day those schemes were clamped down on, HMRC could act retrospectively - meaning you would get penalised for years where those schemes were deemed legal, which craps all over justice.

    Equally, the system is so bloated, there's no definite law. It's all interpretation - accountants interpretation and HMRC's interpretation. There's no guarantee HMRC have things right, only way of finding out is testing in the courts.

    What we really need is to streamline the tax system, simplify around a few understandable concepts.

  10. #10

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    Found.

    You seem to act as if it's a massive conspiracy. It isn't. HMRC for example can retrospectively act.

    Example; in IT there were numerous schemes where income went to off shore Trust who then "loaned" you the money; every year loans would be written off. It was ridiculously obvious the intent - I told one of those accountancy companies spinning it to **** right off. For one thing, should that Trust be taken over and loans demanded, you're financially ****ed. Equally, only way to prevent that is documentation up front proving loans would not be paid - which exposes the concept.

    From the day those schemes were clamped down on, HMRC could act retrospectively - meaning you would get penalised for years where those schemes were deemed legal, which craps all over justice.

    Equally, the system is so bloated, there's no definite law. It's all interpretation - accountants interpretation and HMRC's interpretation. There's no guarantee HMRC have things right, only way of finding out is testing in the courts.

    What we really need is to streamline the tax system, simplify around a few understandable concepts.
    It is complicated for a reason, misdirection.

    There appears to be a lot of movement of staff between HMRC and big business that benefit from 'finding' the loopholes. The government tell me what tax to pay, they effectively ask mega rich and big businesses what they would like to pay.

    You know you are ****ed when the woman whose face is on the currency doesn't even keep her money here.

  11. #11

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It is complicated for a reason, misdirection.

    There appears to be a lot of movement of staff between HMRC and big business that benefit from 'finding' the loopholes. The government tell me what tax to pay, they effectively ask mega rich and big businesses what they would like to pay.

    You know you are ****ed when the woman whose face is on the currency doesn't even keep her money here.
    The government don't tell you what tax to pay, HMRC do. For those self-employed, HMRC go off declared income. It's just as well everyone in the land is so honest with regards to cash payments, isn't it?

  12. #12

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    Found.

    You seem to act as if it's a massive conspiracy. It isn't. HMRC for example can retrospectively act.

    Example; in IT there were numerous schemes where income went to off shore Trust who then "loaned" you the money; every year loans would be written off. It was ridiculously obvious the intent - I told one of those accountancy companies spinning it to **** right off. For one thing, should that Trust be taken over and loans demanded, you're financially ****ed. Equally, only way to prevent that is documentation up front proving loans would not be paid - which exposes the concept.

    From the day those schemes were clamped down on, HMRC could act retrospectively - meaning you would get penalised for years where those schemes were deemed legal, which craps all over justice.

    Equally, the system is so bloated, there's no definite law. It's all interpretation - accountants interpretation and HMRC's interpretation. There's no guarantee HMRC have things right, only way of finding out is testing in the courts.


    What we really need is to streamline the tax system, simplify around a few understandable concepts.
    Hence my observation So why haven't they fixed it?

    The whole legal system is full of holes that honourable members of the Bar regularly exploit.

  13. #13
    International TH63's Avatar
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    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Shouldn't this be in the politics forum?

  14. #14

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Hence my observation So why haven't they fixed it?

    The whole legal system is full of holes that honourable members of the Bar regularly exploit.
    They haven't fixed it due to it requiring parliament to severely curtail HMRC's powers.

    The quickest way to fix it is to go through the ridiculously large number of tax guidelines and simplify them. Do that and the likes of Corbyn will funnily enough play politics with it.

  15. #15

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    It started out with a trick, how did it end up like this? It was only a trick, I'm Mrs Brighthouse ..

    https://projekte.sueddeutsche.de/par...-firm-e567616/

  16. #16

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    They haven't fixed it due to it requiring parliament to severely curtail HMRC's powers.

    The quickest way to fix it is to go through the ridiculously large number of tax guidelines and simplify them. Do that and the likes of Corbyn will funnily enough play politics with it.
    It all sounds very convenient It seems like the lobbyists and polital donors get what they pay for

  17. #17

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    It all sounds very convenient It seems like the lobbyists and polital donors get what they pay for
    Only if you're a conspiracy theorist.

    Tax system started off small, over time became larger becoming a behemoth of small print and edge cases.

  18. #18

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    Only if you're a conspiracy theorist.

    Tax system started off small, over time became larger becoming a behemoth of small print and edge cases.
    Not really a conspiracy, the facts are there for all to see. If you are looking for a motive, just ask the question who benefits? You are saying the situation came about purely by accident rather than design, which is fair enough, but there is no reason to call people who don't agree with you a conspiracy theorist in defence of your arguement. Do you even know how the term conspiracy theory came about?

  19. #19

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    The government don't tell you what tax to pay, HMRC do. For those self-employed, HMRC go off declared income. It's just as well everyone in the land is so honest with regards to cash payments, isn't it?
    No, the government do. HMRC are the heavies. Government decide the rate

  20. #20

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    No, the government do. HMRC are the heavies. Government decide the rate
    Government issue the guidelines, things like rates.
    HMRC decide their own view of what applies to what, things like employment status which is often wrong - see IR35.

  21. #21

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Not really a conspiracy, the facts are there for all to see. If you are looking for a motive, just ask the question who benefits? You are saying the situation came about purely by accident rather than design, which is fair enough, but there is no reason to call people who don't agree with you a conspiracy theorist in defence of your arguement. Do you even know how the term conspiracy theory came about?
    I bet there was a conspiracy behind it. I blame tinfoil manufacturers.

  22. #22

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Odd that this story " breaks " just in time to take the heat off the Westminster perves scandal.

  23. #23

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    I bet there was a conspiracy behind it. I blame tinfoil manufacturers.
    Let's run with your theory that the tax code is riddled with holes purely by accident, so how would you go about explaining the existence of the tax havens located in British overseas territories? It does seem too good to be true that the wealthy can to take advantage of an accidentally designed tax code, in order to avoid paying tax using this system. Some might say it is a match made in heaven. Ok go on then, call me a coincidence theorist if you must

  24. #24

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWales View Post
    Odd that this story " breaks " just in time to take the heat off the Westminster perves scandal.
    We have known about the existence of this hack for a while

  25. #25

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Wonder how many of us are using google at the moment..

  26. #26

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    We have known about the existence of this hack for a while
    So why didn't you tell us about it ?

    Anything to do with Clinton you're over it like a Ginger Trump rash.

    Also who is / are " We " your highness.

  27. #27

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Let's run with your theory that the tax code is riddled with holes purely by accident, so how would you go about explaining the existence of the tax havens located in British overseas territories? It does seem too good to be true that the wealthy can to take advantage of an accidentally designed tax code, in order to avoid paying tax using this system. Some might say it is a match made in heaven. Ok go on then, call me a coincidence theorist if you must
    "Accidentally designed tax code" - who claims that? Christ, I've little confidence in HMRC for generating correct tax codes - one year within the space of two weeks I was sent letters containing four different codes!

  28. #28

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    The rich have always looked after themselves and that includes the monarchy. God knows why people look up to these social inadequates.

  29. #29

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    The uninformed rantings about 'people not paying their taxes' are so typical of the times we live in. Grab a headline and make loud indignant noises about it, never mind the facts. Everybody pays tax. The question is how much tax. And what is done with it.

    People who use perfectly legal tax avoidance schemes are not criminals or 'tainted' in any way. All they are doing is desperately trying to hang on to more of their OWN money. Shock horror!

    Generally speaking, anybody who claims they don't organise their financial affairs in order to minimise their tax liability, is either an idiot or a hypocrite. Most fall into the second category, e.g. The Guardian, Daily Mirror, John McDonnell, Margaret Beckett and most Lefties who love to huff and puff about 'tax havens'.

    I've got no particular axe to grind about Lewis Hamilton. I detest Formula 1. But he bought an aircraft for several million pounds - from earnings on which he had already paid tax. He then arranged the purchase in such a way that he avoided being taxed again. What he did was perfectly legal. Was it immoral? That's a matter of personal conjecture. It doesn't bother me. What would bother me is if he started lecturing the rest of us about the immorality of legal tax avoidance, as do McDonnell and Beckett. Of course the motto of the Left is 'do as I say, not as I do'. They all undergo specialist training on how to be a hypocrite.

  30. #30
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    The uninformed rantings by tax dodgers' apologists are so typical of the times we live in.

  31. #31

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    The uninformed rantings by tax dodgers' apologists are so typical of the times we live in.
    We can't rely on your vote then?

  32. #32

    Re: The queen and her rich chums are helping the country NOT

    Using your tax free allowance is avoiding paying tax

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