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Thread: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

  1. #1

    Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    And just to add the UTTER hypocrisy - the Paradise Papers leak now reveals that numerous Labour councils were avoiding paying tax / stamp duty etc by using offshore companies

    Warrington council - paid 200million for a business centre in Cheshire via an offshore firm - 10.5million avoided

    New Sefton avoided 1.6million stamp duty by buying a shopping centre in Bootle via a Luxembourg company.

    And to top it all - Labour HQ in London pay 1Million a year in rent for their office to Shroeder - a JERSEY based property "Trust"

    Im sure it's happened to all sides - but yet again the hypocrisy of the man - earlier this week he was jumping up and down at the CBI conference demanding that the Queen apologise to the public, as well as Prince Charles and everyone caught up in this - turns out he and the Labour Party were doing exactly the same thing #hypocrit

  2. #2

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    And it seems like Father like son, his dad used to sh@g his secretary 'Tracey' at his official residence well it seems his son David has now been removed from office after Corbyn office receieved a complaint of sexual harassment - I never realised he was Corbyns speech writer.

    The way it is going at the moment there will be no MPs left to sexually harass anyone !!!

  3. #3

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    I'd have thought you already knew that all councils are incorporated, they are a business, same as the courts, police, etc. And if you want to get technical, you are a business too, from the moment your birth certificate is issued. We sail under Admiralty Law.

  4. #4

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Are we saying that left wing socialist have capitalist habits?

  5. #5

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    What is the net effect of a council avoiding stamp duty?

  6. #6

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    I maintain that 'they are all cnuts' and wrong is wrong but isn't there massive difference between trying to save Public money to deliver Business Parks and Shopping Centres , i.e. not for personal gain but reduce public expenditure?

    Isn't that at least a tad more more 'Robin Hood' than individuals or their private companies simply seeking to pay no tax for bigger profit?

  7. #7

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimto View Post
    I maintain that 'they are all cnuts' and wrong is wrong but isn't there massive difference between trying to save Public money to deliver Business Parks and Shopping Centres , i.e. not for personal gain but reduce public expenditure?

    Isn't that at least a tad more more 'Robin Hood' than individuals or their private companies simply seeking to pay no tax for bigger profit?
    More money sloshing about could also mean bigger salaries for those on the council payroll

  8. #8

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    And to top it all - Labour HQ in London pay 1Million a year in rent for their office to Shroeder - a JERSEY based property "Trust"
    What a hilarious reach for something resembling scandal.

    Aside from all the dramatic bolding, what are you proposing they do? Most of London is owned by Russian mobsters, Saudi princes or even worse people.

  9. #9

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    More money sloshing about could also mean bigger salaries for those on the council payroll
    It could, rather than spending your time winking like somebody ITK you could go and look that up though as their director level salary data will almost certainly be published.

  10. #10

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    What a hilarious reach for something resembling scandal.

    Aside from all the dramatic bolding, what are you proposing they do? Most of London is owned by Russian mobsters, Saudi princes or even worse people.
    Interestingly most of those Saudi princes have just been collared, so maybe (and it's a big maybe), we will get a glimpse of how corrupt the world really is? The great and the good in Westminster won't be immune to any of this either. Blair was in bed with Bush/Clinton as was Cameron with Obama, not to mention cabinet ministers who are married to people who conduct shady arms deals with SA. If Trump plays it by the book, I'd get the popcorn ready, but I'm not holding my breath!

  11. #11

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It could, rather than spending your time winking like somebody ITK you could go and look that up though as their director level salary data will almost certainly be published.
    It's supposed to be the job of the press to investigate all this stuff, instead they are a part of the problem!

  12. #12

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    What a hilarious reach for something resembling scandal.

    Aside from all the dramatic bolding, what are you proposing they do? Most of London is owned by Russian mobsters, Saudi princes or even worse people.
    Jeremy wont go to the Balfore celebration meeting because he has high morals, loves Palestine, hates Israel. Demands the highest level of morals in his politics - but happy to pay rent for Labour HQ to a jersey 'trust' and it seems happy that Labour councils do offshore deals to avoid tax, tax that would have gone into his 250 Billion spending spree. If that is not the definition of shooting yourself in the foot then I dont know what is.

    Far better he find a nice landlord instead - a landlord that pays their tax in the UK perhaps.

    Same goes for the Tories , Libs and SNP etc. Why not apply that ruling to every Council, every Govt dept - buy british, and only use firms that pay their taxes in the UK and dont do offshore dodgy deals.... I realise by the looks of it - there wont be anyone left at this rate.

  13. #13

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Jeremy wont go to the Balfore celebration meeting because he has high morals, loves Palestine, hates Israel. Demands the highest level of morals in his politics - but happy to pay rent for Labour HQ to a jersey 'trust' and it seems happy that Labour councils do offshore deals to avoid tax, tax that would have gone into his 250 Billion spending spree. If that is not the definition of shooting yourself in the foot then I dont know what is.

    Far better he find a nice landlord instead - a landlord that pays their tax in the UK perhaps.

    Same goes for the Tories , Libs and SNP etc. Why not apply that ruling to every Council, every Govt dept - buy british, and only use firms that pay their taxes in the UK and dont do offshore dodgy deals.... I realise by the looks of it - there wont be anyone left at this rate.
    I agree that people need a push in the right direction regarding supporting firms that pay tax in the uk. It is actually a very pertinent point you make, money spent in the UK, that remains in the UK has a greater effect than its initial value - hence why selectively investing in infrastructure that will have the side effect of growing the economy shouldn't really be labelled a 'spending spree'.

    As for labour councils. What is the net effect of a council avoiding tax? The council budget is provided by taxation so presumably it is pretty easy to penalise them if we see fit.

    As for labours hq. Take a look at this visual representation of foreign ownership in UK (http://www.private-eye.co.uk/registry). Zoom in on London and the problem they face when finding a property owned by a UK landlord might become more apparent.

  14. #14

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I agree that people need a push in the right direction regarding supporting firms that pay tax in the uk. It is actually a very pertinent point you make, money spent in the UK, that remains in the UK has a greater effect than its initial value - hence why selectively investing in infrastructure that will have the side effect of growing the economy shouldn't really be labelled a 'spending spree'.

    As for labour councils. What is the net effect of a council avoiding tax? The council budget is provided by taxation so presumably it is pretty easy to penalise them if we see fit.

    As for labours hq. Take a look at this visual representation of foreign ownership in UK (http://www.private-eye.co.uk/registry). Zoom in on London and the problem they face when finding a property owned by a UK landlord might become more apparent.
    I agree Eric - London / the UK has become a sort of tax haven mainly for foreign businesses and investors. Live in the UK , get non dom status - like Bob Geldof for example - and then dont pay the stamp duty on your homes.

    The law needs to be changed in this regard, certain individuals and companies want all the safeties and assurances of living in the UK - but dont pay any tax for this privilege.

    If we dont want councils doing 'dodgy' deals overseas and avoiding tax - then simply pass a law saying that the tax does not apply to Councils - whilst at the same time reducing their budget accordingly.

  15. #15

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    And just to add the UTTER hypocrisy - the Paradise Papers leak now reveals that numerous Labour councils were avoiding paying tax / stamp duty etc by using offshore companies

    Warrington council - paid 200million for a business centre in Cheshire via an offshore firm - 10.5million avoided

    New Sefton avoided 1.6million stamp duty by buying a shopping centre in Bootle via a Luxembourg company.

    And to top it all - Labour HQ in London pay 1Million a year in rent for their office to Shroeder - a JERSEY based property "Trust"

    Im sure it's happened to all sides - but yet again the hypocrisy of the man - earlier this week he was jumping up and down at the CBI conference demanding that the Queen apologise to the public, as well as Prince Charles and everyone caught up in this - turns out he and the Labour Party were doing exactly the same thing #hypocrit


    These were Corbyn's words when asked about the queen at the CBI conference

    "Well anyone that is putting money into tax havens in order to avoid taxation in Britain, and obviously investigations have to take place, should do two things – not just apologise for it but also recognise what it does to our society."

    Where is the part where he is jumping up and down and demanding that the queen apologises to the public.

    His statement is specifically aimed at those trying to avoid taxation. How much taxation are the labour party avoiding by leasing their HQ?

    Given the above, could you explain why he is a hypocrite?

    Would you agree with the sentiments in his quoted words?

  16. #16

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Veg1960 View Post
    These were Corbyn's words when asked about the queen at the CBI conference

    "Well anyone that is putting money into tax havens in order to avoid taxation in Britain, and obviously investigations have to take place, should do two things not just apologise for it but also recognise what it does to our society."

    Where is the part where he is jumping up and down and demanding that the queen apologises to the public.

    His statement is specifically aimed at those trying to avoid taxation. How much taxation are the labour party avoiding by leasing their HQ?

    Given the above, could you explain why he is a hypocrite?

    Would you agree with the sentiments in his quoted words?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41883472

    Watch the video - at about 20 seconds in

    Q "Mr Corbyn should the Queen apologise for her private estate making offshore investments etc etc etc"

    A - Well just watch him speak for your answer

  17. #17

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41883472

    Watch the video - at about 20 seconds in

    Q "Mr Corbyn should the Queen apologise for her private estate making offshore investments etc etc etc"


    So you watch that video and see a man

    A - Well just watch him speak for your answer

    So you watch that video and see a man jumping up and down demanding an apology from the queen��

    Let's say that he was jumping up and down too fast for my old eyes to see, and was speaking too fast for my ears to pick up any demands of the queen.

    You insist that he is a hypocrite, which would suggest him saying one thing while doing the opposite. He is speaking out quite specifically against people who use offshore to lessen their
    uk tax. Do you have an example of him doing this?

  18. #18

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41883472

    Watch the video - at about 20 seconds in

    Q "Mr Corbyn should the Queen apologise for her private estate making offshore investments etc etc etc"

    A - Well just watch him speak for your answer
    I have now watched this. Maybe it would work better if you tell us what you think he said.

  19. #19

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I agree Eric - London / the UK has become a sort of tax haven mainly for foreign businesses and investors. Live in the UK , get non dom status - like Bob Geldof for example - and then dont pay the stamp duty on your homes.

    The law needs to be changed in this regard, certain individuals and companies want all the safeties and assurances of living in the UK - but dont pay any tax for this privilege.

    If we dont want councils doing 'dodgy' deals overseas and avoiding tax - then simply pass a law saying that the tax does not apply to Councils - whilst at the same time reducing their budget accordingly.

  20. #20

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Veg1960 View Post
    So you watch that video and see a man jumping up and down demanding an apology from the queen��

    Let's say that he was jumping up and down too fast for my old eyes to see, and was speaking too fast for my ears to pick up any demands of the queen.

    You insist that he is a hypocrite, which would suggest him saying one thing while doing the opposite. He is speaking out quite specifically against people who use offshore to lessen their
    uk tax. Do you have an example of him doing this?
    Cant embed bbc video here - so here is the RT youtube



    Meanwhile we then discover Labour councils are doing offshore deals to avoid paying stamp duty whilst the Labour HQ is renting an office to property trust company in Jersey. Ironically the money those Labour Councils (and presumably other councils are doing) could be used to help Corbyns 250 billion spending program.

    Ps dont get me wrong - the premise of what he says I agree with re tax offshore payments (see posts further up) , but he needs to get his own house in order - hence he shot himself in the foot.

    I also dont agree with his mad spending spree either - just so you know.

  21. #21

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Cant embed bbc video here - so here is the RT youtube



    Meanwhile we then discover Labour councils are doing offshore deals to avoid paying stamp duty whilst the Labour HQ is renting an office to property trust company in Jersey. Ironically the money those Labour Councils (and presumably other councils are doing) could be used to help Corbyns 250 billion spending program.

    Ps dont get me wrong - the premise of what he says I agree with re tax offshore payments (see posts further up) , but he needs to get his own house in order - hence he shot himself in the foot.

    I also dont agree with his mad spending spree either - just so you know.

    I had a funny feeling that you don't agree with his spending plans

    Don't really see how you can accuse him of being hypocritical over this though

  22. #22

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Cant embed bbc video here - so here is the RT youtube



    Meanwhile we then discover Labour councils are doing offshore deals to avoid paying stamp duty whilst the Labour HQ is renting an office to property trust company in Jersey. Ironically the money those Labour Councils (and presumably other councils are doing) could be used to help Corbyns 250 billion spending program.

    Ps dont get me wrong - the premise of what he says I agree with re tax offshore payments (see posts further up) , but he needs to get his own house in order - hence he shot himself in the foot.

    I also dont agree with his mad spending spree either - just so you know.
    I just watched that one and I still can't spot it. Can you tell me the exact time on the video where Corbyn says that the Queen should apologise?

  23. #23

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I just watched that one and I still can't spot it. Can you tell me the exact time on the video where Corbyn says that the Queen should apologise?
    Chris Hope Question - "Mr Corbyn should the Queen apologise over her private estate ....."

    Around 20 seconds in Corbyn "ANYONE that is putting money into tax havens .... should do 2 things - not just apologise but also etc .....

    Reporting the same thing

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41883472
    https://www.politico.eu/article/jere...e-investments/
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/j...-a3677531.html
    https://news.sky.com/story/paradise-...nswer-11115857
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...rbyn-suggests/

  24. #24

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Chris Hope Question - "Mr Corbyn should the Queen apologise over her private estate ....."

    Around 20 seconds in Corbyn "ANYONE that is putting money into tax havens .... should do 2 things - not just apologise but also etc .....

    Reporting the same thing

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41883472
    https://www.politico.eu/article/jere...e-investments/
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/j...-a3677531.html
    https://news.sky.com/story/paradise-...nswer-11115857
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...rbyn-suggests/
    Distorted headlines methinks.

  25. #25

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Any one who tries to make party political (tory v Labour) points when it comes to the recent sex and tax scandals is deluding themselves - neither party is in a position to criticise the other and claim they are squeaky clean, so, despite Feedback's efforts to define almost any political discussion in anti Labour terms it won't work this time.

  26. #26

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Basically if you have money you try and protect it to the best of your ability .

    The rich use tax loopholes.

    The poor or less well off may use things like not paying VAT on a building job ,by paying in cash, or buy some off the back of lorry meat ,booze fags in yer local.

    Yes the difference is big however the act is the same .

  27. #27

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Chris Hope Question - "Mr Corbyn should the Queen apologise over her private estate ....."

    Around 20 seconds in Corbyn "ANYONE that is putting money into tax havens .... should do 2 things - not just apologise but also etc .....

    Reporting the same thing

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41883472
    https://www.politico.eu/article/jere...e-investments/
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/j...-a3677531.html
    https://news.sky.com/story/paradise-...nswer-11115857
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...rbyn-suggests/
    Lol

    The ... that you have chosen to not include contains all the detail - 'in order to avoid taxation in this country'.

  28. #28

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Basically if you have money you try and protect it to the best of your ability .

    The rich use tax loopholes.

    The poor or less well off may use things like not paying VAT on a building job ,by paying in cash, or buy some off the back of lorry meat ,booze fags in yer local.

    Yes the difference is big however the act is the same .
    Impact is a bit different though eh.

  29. #29

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Basically if you have money you try and protect it to the best of your ability .

    The rich use tax loopholes.

    The poor or less well off may use things like not paying VAT on a building job ,by paying in cash, or buy some off the back of lorry meat ,booze fags in yer local.

    Yes the difference is big however the act is the same .
    Brilliant analogy, apart from the fact that when Apple do it it's legal and when the builder does it he risks proscecution.

  30. #30

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Chris Hope Question - "Mr Corbyn should the Queen apologise over her private estate ....."

    Around 20 seconds in Corbyn "ANYONE that is putting money into tax havens .... should do 2 things - not just apologise but also etc .....

    Reporting the same thing

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41883472
    https://www.politico.eu/article/jere...e-investments/
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/j...-a3677531.html
    https://news.sky.com/story/paradise-...nswer-11115857
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...rbyn-suggests/
    This kind of begs the question whether you made the OP in response to what you heard Corbyn say or how it was reported in the media.

    Says more about the state of the media in this country than any hypocrisy on Corbyn's part imo

  31. #31

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Veg1960 View Post
    This kind of begs the question whether you made the OP in response to what you heard Corbyn say or how it was reported in the media.

    Says more about the state of the media in this country than any hypocrisy on Corbyn's part imo
    I made the original post as at the start of week we had Corbyn playing holier than thou on his moral soap box, asking people (like the Queen) to apologise etc etc etc

    Then low and behold - it turns out that he was not clean himself, and his own Labour run councils were avoiding stamp duty.

    I only posted those other references so people like you could actually see it was a main stream story re the Queen.

    But heyho - thanks for your input old boy, but I couldnt really careless about your opinion

  32. #32

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I made the original post as at the start of week we had Corbyn playing holier than thou on his moral soap box, asking people (like the Queen) to apologise etc etc etc

    Then low and behold - it turns out that he was not clean himself, and his own Labour run councils were avoiding stamp duty.

    I only posted those other references so people like you could actually see it was a main stream story re the Queen.

    But heyho - thanks for your input old boy, but I couldnt really careless about your opinion
    You seem to be confusing 'personal gain' with 'trying to save public money' ?!
    You could save yourself some frothing at the mouth.

    Corbyn said the right thing about individuals and their wealth. He said the right thing. You interpret him as a hypocrite. Well OK...
    He may likely not have even known that some Labour-led Authorities were using 'Tax loopholes' to get public work done for less public money. (ooh err .. How terrible..).

  33. #33

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    I wonder when the whiff of corruption emanating in Saudi Arabia and the USA will cross the Atlantic? I can't see our lot and the EU being immune to all of this, as the money trail will inevitably get thrown to the wind ..



  34. #34

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimto View Post
    You seem to be confusing 'personal gain' with 'trying to save public money' ?!
    You could save yourself some frothing at the mouth.

    Corbyn said the right thing about individuals and their wealth. He said the right thing. You interpret him as a hypocrite. Well OK...
    He may likely not have even known that some Labour-led Authorities were using 'Tax loopholes' to get public work done for less public money. (ooh err .. How terrible..).
    You are entering the 2@ zone, somewhere you'll be familiar with princess

  35. #35

    Re: Oops - Labour Councils caught out using offshore firms - definition of a hypocrit

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    You are entering the 2@ zone, somewhere you'll be familiar with princess
    No need to describe yourself in such terms surely, but yes it does seem a bit familiar.
    You could still do with some ointment for that thin skin BTW .

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