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Thread: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

  1. #1

    Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    What a bunch of tossers the conservatives are

  2. #2

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    What a bunch of tossers the conservatives are
    I would say it is since the crash / recession of 2007 Ive seen a steady increase, certainly in Cardiff. Most seem to have alcohol or addiction issues - which is probably why they wont be allowed into homeless shelters etc or the Huggard charity place.

    Sludge - we have a labour run council and labour run Assembly here. You cant pin everything on the conservatives or Lib Dems mate. Homelessness in Cardiff is an issue for the council and the WAG to assist with.

    My mate who teachers down by the Parade caught one of his students begging a few years back, they had words - and he stopped doing it.

  3. #3

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I would say it is since the crash / recession of 2007 Ive seen a steady increase, certainly in Cardiff. Most seem to have alcohol or addiction issues - which is probably why they wont be allowed into homeless shelters etc or the Huggard charity place.

    Sludge - we have a labour run council and labour run Assembly here. You cant pin everything on the conservatives or Lib Dems mate. Homelessness in Cardiff is an issue for the council and the WAG to assist with.

    My mate who teachers down by the Parade caught one of his students begging a few years back, they had words - and he stopped doing it.
    So, nothing to do with Central Government?

  4. #4

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt View Post
    So, nothing to do with Central Government?
    I’m almost certain there’s a politics forum for posts such as this.

  5. #5

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt View Post
    So, nothing to do with Central Government?
    To a certain extent yes - but

    https://fullfact.org/economy/homelessness-uk/

    "In 2014, the Welsh government passed a law placing what it described as a “stronger duty” on councils than under the 1996 Housing Act, which previously applied to Wales as well as England.

    It means that Welsh councils now have to provide everyone, whether homeless or not, with housing advice and assistance. And there are now fewer exceptions in Wales on when the council has to find accommodation for a homeless person or family."

  6. #6

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Back in the late 1980s, the Tory minister, Sir George Young reputedly said
    The homeless ? Aren’t they the people you step over when you came out of the opera?

  7. #7

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    To a certain extent yes - but

    https://fullfact.org/economy/homelessness-uk/

    "In 2014, the Welsh government passed a law placing what it described as a “stronger duty” on councils than under the 1996 Housing Act, which previously applied to Wales as well as England.

    It means that Welsh councils now have to provide everyone, whether homeless or not, with housing advice and assistance. And there are now fewer exceptions in Wales on when the council has to find accommodation for a homeless person or family."
    Here have a 'stronger duty' and now you have that stronger duty you can do more to help people with a smaller budget.

  8. #8

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Here have a 'stronger duty' and now you have that stronger duty you can do more to help people with a smaller budget.
    Politics board?

  9. #9

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    What a bunch of tossers the conservatives are
    It's the same on the streets of mainland Europe, rich are leaving the have nots behind, I still see it over and above any other reason as to why the UK voted to leave the EU, the poorest in society had a chance to make a statement and they exercised their choice, Wales as a region should have not rejected the EU on the basis of funds received per head alone, but the funds benefited very few, a new viaduct in aber somewhere was never going to persuade 2 to 3 generations in the valleys that things were getting better.

  10. #10

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    To a certain extent yes - but

    https://fullfact.org/economy/homelessness-uk/

    "In 2014, the Welsh government passed a law placing what it described as a “stronger duty” on councils than under the 1996 Housing Act, which previously applied to Wales as well as England.

    It means that Welsh councils now have to provide everyone, whether homeless or not, with housing advice and assistance. And there are now fewer exceptions in Wales on when the council has to find accommodation for a homeless person or family."
    So basically what you're saying is that if the Welsh government hadn't implemented the legislation, the numbers of homelessness would be higher.

  11. #11

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Most seem to have alcohol or addiction issues - which is probably why they wont be allowed into homeless shelters etc or the Huggard charity place.

    My mate who teachers down by the Parade caught one of his students begging a few years back, they had words - and he stopped doing it.
    Many people turn to alcohol and drugs as a way to cope AFTER becoming homeless though.
    I'd imagine myself having all the drive in the world dorbthem first few weeks, then after ha ing every door closed in my face and realising how hard this might actually be, I could quite easily get into the cycle of drug taking.
    There are people local to me who are known to have flats who sleep on the streets, others who don't like to live alone for varying reasons so stay with other family members (don't judge as these aren't simple reasons, although these are wasted properties)


    When in Manchester I would always stop and talk to people on the streets, give a bit of change and be on my way to the next boozer, this happened all weekend and my mates eventually stepped in and told me to stop. Overhearing us a couple explained that some of the beggars in Manchester weren't actually homeless. I felt a little ripped off but I still won't "judge" who I give to and let a few put me off.

  12. #12

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    Many people turn to alcohol and drugs as a way to cope AFTER becoming homeless though.
    I'd imagine myself having all the drive in the world dorbthem first few weeks, then after ha ing every door closed in my face and realising how hard this might actually be, I could quite easily get into the cycle of drug taking.
    There are people local to me who are known to have flats who sleep on the streets, others who don't like to live alone for varying reasons so stay with other family members (don't judge as these aren't simple reasons, although these are wasted properties)


    When in Manchester I would always stop and talk to people on the streets, give a bit of change and be on my way to the next boozer, this happened all weekend and my mates eventually stepped in and told me to stop. Overhearing us a couple explained that some of the beggars in Manchester weren't actually homeless. I felt a little ripped off but I still won't "judge" who I give to and let a few put me off.
    There’s a smack / crack head in Merthyr who begs outside Aldi and he’s not homeless. He’s getting around 80 quid a day 7 days a week. I don’t give to him anymore.

  13. #13

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    There’s a smack / crack head in Merthyr who begs outside Aldi and he’s not homeless. He’s getting around 80 quid a day 7 days a week. I don’t give to him anymore.

    Of course you will always get the odd few who scam but there cannot be any doubt that homelessness has seen a massive increase and for the vast majority the situation is very real, it cannot be nice, the money is in the system.

  14. #14

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    There’s a smack / crack head in Merthyr who begs outside Aldi and he’s not homeless. He’s getting around 80 quid a day 7 days a week. I don’t give to him anymore.
    There's a few sat about late at night in the old M&S ponty..ive seen them there in the morning still asleep and again in the evening time sat there too but people who look a lot like smackheads will stop there to talk all through the day too...likely just chancers..could be homeless but in this case BECAUSE of drugs..hard to have sympathy even if it makes me sound a horrible ****.
    They must have been found out as they don't seem to be there in the day now but are there later in the evenings I've been told.

  15. #15

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Has the lack of a bus station highlighted it a bit more in Cardiff? The homeless tended to congregate there, now they’ve spread out to town itself. Sad times though, there has to be a solution some day as the numbers of the unfortunates does seem to be on the rise.

  16. #16

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxim View Post
    Back in the late 1980s, the Tory minister, Sir George Young reputedly said
    The homeless ? Aren’t they the people you step over when you came out of the opera?
    It's amazingly how many claims there are that he reputedly say that, none with any evidence. Sounds more like an urban myth, or a test run for Momentum's fake news brigade.

  17. #17

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Wouldn't be surprised to see them bring back the workhouses, could end up like the Victorian times.

  18. #18

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    There was another guy on his patch the order day. As I was walking past him his mobile phone rings and I could hear him say “no I’m not in the house at the moment, I’ll be home in about 2 hours”!!!! Probably when he’d got enough for some rocks!!

    Sadly these incidents have put me off giving to the genuine homeless.

  19. #19

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    It's amazingly how many claims there are that he reputedly say that, none with any evidence. Sounds more like an urban myth, or a test run for Momentum's fake news brigade.
    I was working for Oxford housing rights centre at the time and he did indeed say that , I remember the outrage , quite rightly , at the time

  20. #20

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    It's amazingly how many claims there are that he reputedly say that, none with any evidence. Sounds more like an urban myth, or a test run for Momentum's fake news brigade.
    Do you purposely just go around this message board intent on disagreeing with anyone, and everything? Or does it just come naturally?

  21. #21

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    Has the lack of a bus station highlighted it a bit more in Cardiff? The homeless tended to congregate there, now they’ve spread out to town itself. Sad times though, there has to be a solution some day as the numbers of the unfortunates does seem to be on the rise.
    Queen Street is a right eyesore. Since the money’s been ploughed into SD2 and the Hayes, Queen Street has become the real shitty end of town.

  22. #22

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    To a certain extent yes - but

    https://fullfact.org/economy/homelessness-uk/

    "In 2014, the Welsh government passed a law placing what it described as a “stronger duty” on councils than under the 1996 Housing Act, which previously applied to Wales as well as England.

    It means that Welsh councils now have to provide everyone, whether homeless or not, with housing advice and assistance. And there are now fewer exceptions in Wales on when the council has to find accommodation for a homeless person or family."
    You do realise that the council's are working with their hands tied behind their backs in terms of providing housing ? The reason .......the conservatives sold loads of fecking council houses !!

    Recently Wales brought in legislation to end the right to buy and not before time !!

  23. #23

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I would say it is since the crash / recession of 2007 Ive seen a steady increase, certainly in Cardiff. Most seem to have alcohol or addiction issues - which is probably why they wont be allowed into homeless shelters etc or the Huggard charity place.

    Sludge - we have a labour run council and labour run Assembly here. You cant pin everything on the conservatives or Lib Dems mate. Homelessness in Cardiff is an issue for the council and the WAG to assist with.

    My mate who teachers down by the Parade caught one of his students begging a few years back, they had words - and he stopped doing it.
    I used to work in housing advice and in a homeless shelter

    Many people develop alcohol and drug problems after they have become homeless due to the people they are with when they are not in the night shelters or sleeping rough

    As for who is responsible ? It's the Tories , the selling off of council homes , benefits changes since 2010 , the 1985 housing act , all have had a devastating effect ........and it's getting worse

    The Welsh government can only work with the funds it's given by the people running the show in Westminster and that's the conservatives

    Since 2010 they have slashed public services and forced local authorities to make huge cuts ......much of this has fallen on the voluntary sector who do so much to help those in housing need , those with substance abuse problems and mental ill health ........which often leads to homelessness

    The charity MIND in Wales has been badly hit ......a local office by me used to offer 18 hours of open access to give advice and support ........now it's down to four

  24. #24

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Services cut but our council tax still rising at a much higher rate than inflation. Local council have got to share the blame fir that Sludge.

  25. #25

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    [QUOTE=J R Hartley;4805974]Services cut but our council tax still rising at a much higher rate than inflation. Local council have got to share the blame fir that Sludge.[/QUOTE

    The money from the council tax is not used to build housing stock , which is what we need

  26. #26

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Politics board?

    I think it's such an important issue and a disgrace I hope it stays on here as long as possible

  27. #27

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    [QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;4805976]
    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Services cut but our council tax still rising at a much higher rate than inflation. Local council have got to share the blame fir that Sludge.[/QUOTE

    The money from the council tax is not used to build housing stock , which is what we need
    Quite right. The rise in council tax doesn't come close to correcting the shortfall from central government.

  28. #28

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I think it's such an important issue and a disgrace I hope it stays on here as long as possible
    Me too

  29. #29

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    Me too
    Lets stop discussing he says /she says re politics and talk reality

    So we have someone who is on drugs/alcoholic, who is homeless, has no money, no job and needs to get off their habit.

    The response is we need to build them a house, pay their rent for them , fit out the house with white goods etc then when we have done that - we need to get them off drugs, stop them drinking, get them trained up and then try and find them a job.

    Have I missed anything ? end to end any idea how much that costs when everything is taken into account?

    The budget is set,so there is only so much to go round, what budget would you cut to get them housed,trained,educated, clean, and employed.

    Unfortunately it seems politicians of all colours dont see this as a priority - a sad fact of life.
    Maybe if councils, non Doms and large corps stop doing dodgy offshore deals there would be enough for everyone.
    I wont hold my breath

  30. #30

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    The number of job centre sanctions issued under Universal Credit is set to triple from current levels. Here's the rules: http://benefitsaware.centralenglandl...dit-sanctions/

    Unless I read it wrong, someone in receipt of JSA and Housing Benefit who's sanctioned will lose both payments during the sanction period as they both come under the UC umbrella. That could be for either 4 or 13 weeks for a minor infraction such as arriving 5 minutes late for an appointment. Homelessness would likely rocket.

    It's brutal ideological punishment from the Political Class 'cos Labour supports UC.

  31. #31

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    The number of job centre sanctions issued under Universal Credit is set to triple from current levels. Here's the rules: http://benefitsaware.centralenglandl...dit-sanctions/

    Unless I read it wrong, someone in receipt of JSA and Housing Benefit who's sanctioned will lose both payments during the sanction period as they both come under the UC umbrella. That could be for either 4 or 13 weeks for a minor infraction such as arriving 5 minutes late for an appointment. Homelessness would likely rocket.

    It's brutal ideological punishment from the Political Class 'cos Labour supports UC.
    Labour and indeed a few Tories are calling for a halt in universal credit and for the government to look at this benefit again , as it's clearly got some serious flaws

  32. #32

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt View Post
    So, nothing to do with Central Government?
    No, you're wrong there, it was to do with central Government in the time from the 2008 crash to the election in May 2010, but not since then.

  33. #33

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    No, you're wrong there, it was to do with central Government in the time from the 2008 crash to the election in May 2010, but not since then.
    Very true lol

  34. #34

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Labour and indeed a few Tories are calling for a halt in universal credit and for the government to look at this benefit again , as it's clearly got some serious flaws
    I agree Sludge - I think the intentions of it were good (lan and cons seem to think so anyway), as in a phased approach between work / benefits so it's not all or nothing. Obviously something that should be a very simple task has been made extremely complex mainly by politicians I would guess. As for the 6 week delay issue - I heard there was a process in place to cover that - but never looked into what that was - too many other things to do than look at it.

    Probably would be easier if politicians kept their noses out - they seem to like making changes for changes sake. Better off getting the IT company doing the work (Logica I think) to just liaise with the head of dept for benefits and let them get on with it.

  35. #35

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    As Splott Parker said the closure of the bus station means more homeless people visible around the city.
    These tended to be the ‘clean’ homeless ie those who didn’t have drink or drug issues
    Sadly there is a lot more aggressive begging these days with people walking up to members of tne public’s askinb for cash in what can be an intimidatory manner.
    South Wales police have an operation on at the moment, but it’s like putting a plaster over a gaping wound.
    Not sure what the answer is but it’s the worst I’ve ever seen in my lifetime

  36. #36

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    As Splott Parker said the closure of the bus station means more homeless people visible around the city.
    These tended to be the ‘clean’ homeless ie those who didn’t have drink or drug issues
    Sadly there is a lot more aggressive begging these days with people walking up to members of tne public’s askinb for cash in what can be an intimidatory manner.
    South Wales police have an operation on at the moment, but it’s like putting a plaster over a gaping wound.
    Not sure what the answer is but it’s the worst I’ve ever seen in my lifetime
    Tip of the iceberg I fear. Not likely to get better, nor be a priority for Govt any time soon

    Nobody would deliberately choose a 'life' on the streets.
    These people are not the ones sucking the money out of the system.

  37. #37

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    There is a housing crisis and with year on year immigration growing how wouldn't there be. We haven't got enough houses to affordably accommodate everyone at the moment before you factor in the fact that hardly any more are built which explains why temporary accommodation is groaning under the weight of families living in one room for years on end and often miles from where they are from. Some of these fall down into street homeless.

    You will always have people with different reasons falling through the nets and ending up street homeless and years ago there were properly resourced services to deal with this. These services are perilously funded now. Government policy is just plain wrong I include the last Labour government in this as well.

    The current bunch of back slappers included an extra 2 week delay in UC for reasons only known to themselves. Added to the mandatory 4 week wait as you would get ' in the real world' and bravo. The lack of housing is a disgrace when you factor in the hidden homeless of sofa surfers and folks staying with friends then it is unforgivable. It just gets a bit more coverage this time of year.

  38. #38

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by joecity View Post
    There is a housing crisis and with year on year immigration growing how wouldn't there be. We haven't got enough houses to affordably accommodate everyone at the moment before you factor in the fact that hardly any more are built which explains why temporary accommodation is groaning under the weight of families living in one room for years on end and often miles from where they are from. Some of these fall down into street homeless.

    You will always have people with different reasons falling through the nets and ending up street homeless and years ago there were properly resourced services to deal with this. These services are perilously funded now. Government policy is just plain wrong I include the last Labour government in this as well.

    The current bunch of back slappers included an extra 2 week delay in UC for reasons only known to themselves. Added to the mandatory 4 week wait as you would get ' in the real world' and bravo. The lack of housing is a disgrace when you factor in the hidden homeless of sofa surfers and folks staying with friends then it is unforgivable. It just gets a bit more coverage this time of year.
    We need a massive house building programme , both private and public .....in council housing .....and it needs to start now !

    But what have the Tories done ? Extended the fecking right to buy meaning more stock will be lost !!

    They promised to replace each council or housing association property sold with a new build .......that was just another Tory election fib .....as it hasn't happened

  39. #39

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Vimto View Post
    Tip of the iceberg I fear. Not likely to get better, nor be a priority for Govt any time soon

    Nobody would deliberately choose a 'life' on the streets.
    These people are not the ones sucking the money out of the system.
    I beg to differ.

    There is a bloke in my local area who has a flat yet sleeps rough.

    Also the brother of an ex councillor who sleeps rough.

  40. #40

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled


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