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Thread: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

  1. #61

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Well the Tories found money to bribe the DUP to get a government together

    It's their watch now and they are overseeing a massive housing crisis

    The problem is the Tory party never have and never will give a feck about the vulnerable in society as they don't vote for them
    I’ll ask again - wheres the money coming from for all these new houses?

    It’s a straightforward, direct question.

  2. #62

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Labour from 1997 to 2010 certainly didn't. Blair pledged 200,000 per year, Brown aimed for 240,000 a year (the number experts believed were necessary). Between them they averaged 185,000 in that 13-year span.
    I am no fan of Blair , he was Thatcher in a suit

  3. #63

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I beg to differ a little, Sludge if I may, it is cheaper to use private Landlords (if you can find them) to house people rather than build the property yourself, and maintain it ie white goods, maintenance etc

    Merthyr council I think were offering a deal to private landlords - if you had a 1 bed flat, they would pay the Landlord £500 a month, guarantee the rent full occupancy for 5 years and they would also do the maintenance themselves. I had a mate who had a 2 x 1 bed flats - he had murder with tennants not paying, smashing the place up etc. He bit their hand off when they offered it to him - guaranteed hassle free / maintenance free rent - it worked out cheaper for the council than having to buy land , build a houses / flats etc.

    I would argue that this is the best of both worlds - private sector carries the cost build / purchase, public sector guarantees the rent and conditions of the property. It didnt extend to maintenance of roofs etc though or rewires - just general stuff
    But it is short-sighted in my view. £500 a month for a decade = £60,000. Surely the cost of building a single-bed flat in a block would be less than that. In the long term, paying private landlords instead of building has to work out more expensive. If you factor in the ability to be able to buy a property, using private landlords is even more expensive again. Even if you factor in the cost of land, a council-owned property will surely cost less after 20 years than paying a private landlord to provide the same.

  4. #64

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I’ll ask again - wheres the money coming from for all these new houses?

    It’s a straightforward, direct question.
    Sludge is right. Where did this government find £1bn to cling onto power? There might be the answer you're looking for. You could also ask where this government is finding the money to subsidise Brexit so the full effect isn't felt.

  5. #65

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Sludge is right. Where did this government find £1bn to cling onto power? There might be the answer you're looking for. You could also ask where this government is finding the money to subsidise Brexit so the full effect isn't felt.
    No, all I’m asking is where the money is coming from to build many, many new houses. Nothing else. Just that.

  6. #66

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Must say it’s good to see that political debate is now accepted on the main message board.

  7. #67

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    No, all I’m asking is where the money is coming from to build many, many new houses. Nothing else. Just that.
    I'll answer that one. The money can be created from thin air. Just like that 800 billion quid was in 2008 to bail out those bastard bankers.

  8. #68

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    I'll answer that one. The money can be created from thin air. Just like that 800 billion quid was in 2008 to bail out those bastard bankers.
    Who created 800b from thin air?

  9. #69

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Don't tell Sludge, it was the Labour government.

  10. #70

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    But it is short-sighted in my view. £500 a month for a decade = £60,000. Surely the cost of building a single-bed flat in a block would be less than that. In the long term, paying private landlords instead of building has to work out more expensive. If you factor in the ability to be able to buy a property, using private landlords is even more expensive again. Even if you factor in the cost of land, a council-owned property will surely cost less after 20 years than paying a private landlord to provide the same.
    I'm think Ninian Clark is describing a leasing scheme. These are used to place households in temporary accommodation. The local authority doesn't pay the rent though it comes from the leasing company who claw it back through Housing Benefit.

    It's definitely not Merthyr council either.

  11. #71

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    To just blame a single political party is very short sighted ,its too complex to badge this issue , a lot of funded councils are not all Tory , how many are homeless in
    London Boroughs run by Labour ?
    Councils have no money and are still being told they need to make cuts. Whether the council is Labour or Tory is irrelevant, what is to blame is the continual forced moulding of a selfish society where things are more important than people.

  12. #72

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Councils have no money and are still being told they need to make cuts. Whether the council is Labour or Tory is irrelevant, what is to blame is the continual forced moulding of a selfish society where things are more important than people.
    That is certainly a big part of the problem.

  13. #73

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    No, all I’m asking is where the money is coming from to build many, many new houses. Nothing else. Just that.
    It's coming from the same place as the £1bn for the DUP, Brexit subsidies etc. Maybe you'd like to question where the money is coming from for those.

  14. #74

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Don't tell Sludge, it was the Labour government.
    Gideon would have done exactly the same. We should have said bollocks to the bankers.

  15. #75

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    33 million people in England and Wales self-identified as Christians according to the 2011 Census. There must be plenty of spare bedrooms that can be made available from that lot. Their churches are way underused too.

  16. #76

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    33 million people in England and Wales self-identified as Christians according to the 2011 Census. There must be plenty of spare bedrooms that can be made available from that lot. Their churches are way underused too.
    :) !

  17. #77

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I’ll ask again - wheres the money coming from for all these new houses?



    It’s a straightforward, direct question.
    The money is there , they found it for the DUP !!

  18. #78

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    No, all I’m asking is where the money is coming from to build many, many new houses. Nothing else. Just that.
    And I have just told you , the money's there to go to war , prop up a minority government , it's a simple question of priority

  19. #79

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    33 million people in England and Wales self-identified as Christians according to the 2011 Census. There must be plenty of spare bedrooms that can be made available from that lot. Their churches are way underused too.
    My mother's local church talks a god game but ask them to put up a rough sleeper over Christmas and they would run a mile

  20. #80

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Clearing up a few of these tax loopholes which the mega rich use would help.

  21. #81

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    What a bunch of tossers the conservatives are
    Sludge. Your hatred of the Conservatives is legendary on here, and I’m not disagreeing with you, but if 90% of the wealth in the UK is owned by 10% of the people, how come they are in power most of the time, and when Labour are in charge, why do things never seem to get better? After all, if Labour did a better, fairer job of running the country then they’d surely stay in power longer?
    They are as bad as each other.

  22. #82

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Sludge. Your hatred of the Conservatives is legendary on here, and I’m not disagreeing with you, but if 90% of the wealth in the UK is owned by 10% of the people, how come they are in power most of the time, and when Labour are in charge, why do things never seem to get better? After all, if Labour did a better, fairer job of running the country then they’d surely stay in power longer?
    They are as bad as each other.
    Because, until recently, Rupert Murdoch decided who would win which election. It rarely has anything to do with policy, and almost always is Hobson's choice of "best of the worst".

    Labour in 1997 were Tory Lite - I didn't vote for them after 1997 until 2010 because I thought Brown had the best plan to get out of the global financial crisis. I still think he had the best plan.

    I couldn't vote for Miliband, and I didn't think I could vote for Corbyn but then I read his policies and he got my vote, and will get it again in the next election (February/March 2018).

  23. #83

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Sludge. Your hatred of the Conservatives is legendary on here, and I’m not disagreeing with you, but if 90% of the wealth in the UK is owned by 10% of the people, how come they are in power most of the time, and when Labour are in charge, why do things never seem to get better? After all, if Labour did a better, fairer job of running the country then they’d surely stay in power longer?
    They are as bad as each other.
    For me, power and wealth have bought most of the media - those that have the most are able to impart the most influence over people. Brexit was a prime example of that where multi-millionaires were able to convince people to leave the EU. The Sun's record at "backing the winner" of general elections is strong (or influencing the electorate, your choice). The printed media's influence has been massive, though with the advent of social media, their power is on the wane.

    Through this, people's opinion of Labour is that they'd crash the ecomony again. This myth (lie) has gone unchallenged for almost a decade and in general, people trust the Conservatives with the economy. It should be pointed out that, in opposition, George Osborne has said that he would have done exactly the same as Labour did and spent the same way had he been in power, yet the Conservative press were able to instill into the public a thought that Labour crashed the economy. That was mainly caused by bailing out the banks, which the Conservatives would have done. Had the Tories been in power between 2005-10, the economy would have been in virtually the same state as it was when they joined forces with the Lib Dems in 2010. (It's interesting to note that, despite nearly a decade of austerity, public spending has hardly dropped, yet the worst off have been the most affected while the top earners have had tax cuts; this will bite the Tories in the next election).

    A friend of mine is a known economist and lecturer, whose name I shan't divulge. With regard Labour overspending causing a financial crisis, he discovered that the only organisation that claimed this was the Tories. Not one single independent financial organisation did (OBR, IFS etc), yet the right-wing media have pedalled these lines to the point where most believe them to be true.

    I can think of one way of summing up the right-wing Tory media - newspapers so clever at manipulating people to think that immigrants and benefit scroungers have caused Britain to be in the state it is, yet have been involved with financial practices that have robbed the country of far more than any group they care to demonise and encouraging people to vote so they can continue doing this. The EU is set to announce major obstacles to the way the mega wealthy and corporations can avoid paying tax. No wonder the Mail, Express, Arron Banks etc wanted out and would do anything to achieve this.

    It's all about the powerful and wealthy manipulating the rest of us.

  24. #84

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Tandy View Post
    There are 10,000 people on the housing waiting list in Cardiff.
    Any ideas?
    You should cover you're face if you think that second hand caravans are a housing policy in this day n age.

  25. #85

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Labour from 1997 to 2010 certainly didn't. Blair pledged 200,000 per year, Brown aimed for 240,000 a year (the number experts believed were necessary). Between them they averaged 185,000 in that 13-year span.
    Blair's government are amongst the worst offenders in housing policy agreed. Governments have built homes before. I not going to believe that the private sector is going to fill the void. They won't. You know it, I know it. Government intervention is required. Who else is going to build affordable homes.

  26. #86

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Where’s the money coming from for these new homes? Lots of them? Have you any idea how much a single new house costs even here in Wales?
    Well we could always stick with the status quo and say it can't be done. Why not borrow to build homes. Its not like you won't get a return on the investment. It needs a political will. Its a big ask of course but its a big problem.

  27. #87

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by joecity View Post
    Well we could always stick with the status quo and say it can't be done. Why not borrow to build homes. Its not like you won't get a return on the investment. It needs a political will. Its a big ask of course but its a big problem.
    Good shout.

    We can afford tax cuts for the most wealthy. We don't get a return on that and it costs the economy, but we can afford that. Long term, building has to be more affordable than private renting.

  28. #88
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    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by joecity View Post
    Blair's government are amongst the worst offenders in housing policy agreed. Governments have built homes before. I not going to believe that the private sector is going to fill the void. They won't. You know it, I know it. Government intervention is required. Who else is going to build affordable homes.
    Labour failed on getting enough new homes built - but in other areas of housing policy the Blair/Brown government was light years ahead of what had come before (since the 1970s). The green paper in 2000 'Quality And Choice For All' was the first policy paper in over a generation that thought housing was about more than Right To Buy and interest rates. It set out to transform social rented housing (Choice Based Lettings, the Decent Homes programme and much more) and it also in its last couple of years freed up Councils to start building again (with the work on Self Financing Housing Revenue Accounts that went live under Cameron in 2010). Labour also produced the two housing ministers from the last four decades who cared about housing and knew what they were talking about - Nick Raynsford and John Healey. Governments since 2010 have rolled back to the pathetic stance of the Thatcher/Major years - using the financial crisis and cult of austerity as cover.

  29. #89

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Labour failed on getting enough new homes built - but in other areas of housing policy the Blair/Brown government was light years ahead of what had come before (since the 1970s). The green paper in 2000 'Quality And Choice For All' was the first policy paper in over a generation that thought housing was about more than Right To Buy and interest rates. It set out to transform social rented housing (Choice Based Lettings, the Decent Homes programme and much more) and it also in its last couple of years freed up Councils to start building again (with the work on Self Financing Housing Revenue Accounts that went live under Cameron in 2010). Labour also produced the two housing ministers from the last four decades who cared about housing and knew what they were talking about - Nick Raynsford and John Healey. Governments since 2010 have rolled back to the pathetic stance of the Thatcher/Major years - using the financial crisis and cult of austerity as cover.
    Well I know that you know youre housing policy from you're second hand caravan policy so I will take your word for it. I think now though that although the policies, papers and meanings were sound that we have a serious shortage of actual dwellings of a standard for people to occupy. You would think a Labour government would have delivered more actual quality and affordable dwellings. Actual housing stock. The financial crisis and the follow on austerity choice is indeed a useful tool for yet more hand wringing when it comes to getting housing stock built.

    There is no bigger issue for me than housing currently. I can't see how it will improve under this shower of c#nts.

  30. #90

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    This where will the money come from lark. Surely a government that can borrow money at a record low rate, create jobs through constructing housing stock that will in turn generate income and become an assert improve health, criminal justice cots, related improvements in getting people back to or keeping them in work, save countless millions on b and b s, housing benefit rip offs. The wider benefits to society of well housed people. You could ask what will the cost be of not doing it.

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