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Thread: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

  1. #241

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by I.8.POLITICAL.CORRECTNESS View Post
    Cheers Dems I will certainly give that a watch tonight mate
    I remember the media influence so well it was the first time I was old enough to vote
    so took a keen interest
    it felt like every media outlet was pro Blair (maybe its my rose tinted specs) forgive the pun
    quite a lot of us were duped there , the folly of youth I reckon
    It all started so well with Blair but then god told him to invade Iraq

  2. #242

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    It all started so well with Blair but then god told him to invade Iraq

    Theres a cracking debate on youtube Sludge well worth a watch with
    Tony Blair and Christopher Hitchens Hitch wipes the floor with him

  3. #243

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by I.8.POLITICAL.CORRECTNESS View Post
    Theres a cracking debate on youtube Sludge well worth a watch with
    Tony Blair and Christopher Hitchens Hitch wipes the floor with him
    Will give it a look , marched against the war in Iraq , complete asshole , and his wife

  4. #244

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    interesting fact on R4's Today programme this am. More council houses were built in the last year of Thatcher's reign than during the whole tenure of the last Labour government.

  5. #245

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    interesting fact on R4's Today programme this am. More council houses were built in the last year of Thatcher's reign than during the whole tenure of the last Labour government.
    You cant say things like that on here mate - you'll have the ccmb Corbynista's trolling you and putting a horses head on your front garden.

    I would withdraw that remark immediately and hope for forgiveness

  6. #246

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    interesting fact on R4's Today programme this am. More council houses were built in the last year of Thatcher's reign than during the whole tenure of the last Labour government.
    Governments are never how they like to portray themselves.

    The only fact that really matters is that the average house price is something like 10x the average wage. Where I live it is probably closer to 20x. Whatever has happened in the last 35 years, whether by design or accident, has not worked.

  7. #247

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Governments are never how they like to portray themselves.

    The only fact that really matters is that the average house price is something like 10x the average wage. Where I live it is probably closer to 20x. Whatever has happened in the last 35 years, whether by design or accident, has not worked.
    Simple economics Eric (unfortunately) especially over the last 15 years.

    We have people with money that want to invest it somewhere in the hope of getting a return (nothing wrong with that)
    There are 3 places they put money, stocks and shares, Govt bonds type arrangements - or bricks and mortar).

    Stocks and shares hardly been a beacon of virtue with economic environment or exactly trustworthy , some investors lost lots in the crash and had their fingers severely burned. Weve had low interest rates for a very long time now - so no return on investment there either.

    The only area wher you can virtually guarantee income - whether thats rental income or income from improving a property and reselling it - is in houses / flats etc.

    The end result is that the housing market has seen lots of investment in terms investment companies, pension companies and individuals (including overseas) buying up property to rent or sell. The end result is an increase in prices.

    If people cant get a return on the property by selling it - they will rent it - removing the number of houses on the market - which in turn increases the price.

    I dont have the answer, as you can probably gather. You cant stop companies from buying land or property.
    Whats your solution ?

  8. #248

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Simple economics Eric (unfortunately) especially over the last 15 years.

    We have people with money that want to invest it somewhere in the hope of getting a return (nothing wrong with that)
    There are 3 places they put money, stocks and shares, Govt bonds type arrangements - or bricks and mortar).

    Stocks and shares hardly been a beacon of virtue with economic environment or exactly trustworthy , some investors lost lots in the crash and had their fingers severely burned. Weve had low interest rates for a very long time now - so no return on investment there either.

    The only area wher you can virtually guarantee income - whether thats rental income or income from improving a property and reselling it - is in houses / flats etc.

    The end result is that the housing market has seen lots of investment in terms investment companies, pension companies and individuals (including overseas) buying up property to rent or sell. The end result is an increase in prices.

    If people cant get a return on the property by selling it - they will rent it - removing the number of houses on the market - which in turn increases the price.

    I dont have the answer, as you can probably gather. You cant stop companies from buying land or property.
    Whats your solution ?
    Make sure we build enough houses, which all governments harp on about but rarely actually do. It will cause some pain but my parents house is 5 times the price they bought it for in 1990 and the average wage has possibly doubled, if that.

    It really is simple economics, increase supply.

  9. #249

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Make sure we build enough houses, which all governments harp on about but rarely actually do. It will cause some pain but my parents house is 5 times the price they bought it for in 1990 and the average wage has possibly doubled, if that.

    It really is simple economics, increase supply.
    Build more houses so that property companies, pension funds, foreign investors and second home investors can buy them. Building more houses per se, wont solve the problem will it.

    You need to ensure that the houses being built are affordable to first time genuine buyers - how will you do that ?
    How will you get house builders to build these cheap homes for you ? - house builders build houses that make them the most money.
    How will you ensure that these amazing new cheap affordable houses built by house builders who have had their profits cut because they arent making as money from each one, how will you ensure that these then arent resold to proprty investors after 6 months ?

    It is not simple - otherwise it would have been done.

  10. #250

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Build more houses so that property companies, pension funds, foreign investors and second home investors can buy them. Building more houses per se, wont solve the problem will it.

    You need to ensure that the houses being built are affordable to first time genuine buyers - how will you do that ?
    How will you get house builders to build these cheap homes for you ? - house builders build houses that make them the most money.
    How will you ensure that these amazing new cheap affordable houses built by house builders who have had their profits cut because they arent making as money from each one, how will you ensure that these then arent resold to proprty investors after 6 months ?

    It is not simple - otherwise it would have been done.
    So you think if we build a shit loads of houses the average house price won't fall? Investors will keep buying them, inflating the price, in order to rent them to nobody?

    Simple fact is we don't build the right houses in the right places and we don't actually build enough of anything.

    The only barrier to this is whether we have the people to build them and fit them out. My mate can earn a shedload fitting carpets now because every other person is a media grad fighting for the same min wage jobs.

  11. #251

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Remove the green belt. That's the biggest obstacle in the way.

    It will never happen of course.

    Then there are those empty nesters living in perfectly decent family homes until the snuff it. Far too many homes of this nature stymie the housing market.

    We have plenty enough bedrooms in the UK, they are just unoccupied

  12. #252

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    So you think if we build a shit loads of houses the average house price won't fall? Investors will keep buying them, inflating the price, in order to rent them to nobody?

    Simple fact is we don't build the right houses in the right places and we don't actually build enough of anything.

    The only barrier to this is whether we have the people to build them and fit them out. My mate can earn a shedload fitting carpets now because every other person is a media grad fighting for the same min wage jobs.
    If there is still a good return on buying property / renting property / selling property - then they wil be still be seen as investment opportunities that's how markets work, when they can get better returns elsewhere - the money will flow there instead.

    Obviously in your world, you will find someone to build a lovely house that the property developer will then only sell at a price of 2-3 times the average wage - because they are very kind like that.

    "Simple fact is we don't build the right houses in the right places and we don't actually build enough of anything."- see above - I agree by the way - BUT ask yourself why that is again, there is a reason and that's because the return is better.

  13. #253

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    If there is still a good return on buying property / renting property / selling property - then they wil be still be seen as investment opportunities that's how markets work, when they can get better returns elsewhere - the money will flow there instead.

    Obviously in your world, you will find someone to build a lovely house that the property developer will then only sell at a price of 2-3 times the average wage - because they are very kind like that.

    "Simple fact is we don't build the right houses in the right places and we don't actually build enough of anything."- see above - I agree by the way - BUT ask yourself why that is again, there is a reason and that's because the return is better.
    So when houses were valued at a level closer to the average wage that wasn't because the population was lower it was because the property developers were kinder? You mentioned economics but don't seem to want to recognise the basics of supply and demand. Unfortunately where houses need to be built, there often isn't the land - as TISS says, the green belt gets in the way (unfortunately).

    We are going to have to do all sorts of wacky shit post brexit (like negotiate trade deals) why don't we learn how to build some houses too.

    I get the feeling moving people is easier for the government. Trying desperately to mould the north of England into some kind of rival for London - shifting business/jobs up there could ease the pressure on prices around London. Also as workplaces become less fixed, that may help. If I can work on a laptop anywhere, why pick the home counties?

  14. #254

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    As previously mentioned in this thread - who benefits by not enough properties being built. Here's a recap: winners include homeowners, the value of whose homes have rocketed, then there's the government because flipping overpriced houses is good for the country's annual GDP number, and let's not forget the City of London boys who set policy from behind the curtain, they get lots more interest on the loans they create via their fractional lending scam.

    Just follow the money.

  15. #255

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    As previously mentioned in this thread - who benefits by not enough properties being built. Here's a recap: winners include homeowners, the value of whose homes have rocketed, then there's the government because flipping overpriced houses is good for the country's annual GDP number, and let's not forget the City of London boys who set policy from behind the curtain, they get lots more interest on the loans they create via their fractional lending scam.

    Just follow the money.
    basically yes

  16. #256

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    So when houses were valued at a level closer to the average wage that wasn't because the population was lower it was because the property developers were kinder? You mentioned economics but don't seem to want to recognise the basics of supply and demand. Unfortunately where houses need to be built, there often isn't the land - as TISS says, the green belt gets in the way (unfortunately).

    We are going to have to do all sorts of wacky shit post brexit (like negotiate trade deals) why don't we learn how to build some houses too.

    I get the feeling moving people is easier for the government. Trying desperately to mould the north of England into some kind of rival for London - shifting business/jobs up there could ease the pressure on prices around London. Also as workplaces become less fixed, that may help. If I can work on a laptop anywhere, why pick the home counties?
    When I bought my house - interest rates were around 10% (my house about 4-5 times the average wage). Although there was money in housing then, it didnt seem as much as today. The reason being that with interest rates like - you would struggle to get the same yield on a property that was rented out.

    If you can get a yield circa 5% - you're doing ok. Since the crash the money has gone wherever the returns are more greater - and more stable - which is property.

    Or if you want to see a neat trick (I think this was one of John Prescott's) If as a property developer you're building accommodation on brown field and then made it student accommodation - you were given a tax break - which explains why we have so many student accommodation places. All the developer then does (as is happening in Cardiff right now) is appeal to the council saying there arent enough students available to fill the building - and so apply to change it to private accommodation instead. I'm not sure though that when they do that they have to pay their tax break back or not - I suspect not.

  17. #257

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    When I bought my house - interest rates were around 10% (my house about 4-5 times the average wage). Although there was money in housing then, it didnt seem as much as today. The reason being that with interest rates like - you would struggle to get the same yield on a property that was rented out.

    If you can get a yield circa 5% - you're doing ok. Since the crash the money has gone wherever the returns are more greater - and more stable - which is property.

    Or if you want to see a neat trick (I think this was one of John Prescott's) If as a property developer you're building accommodation on brown field and then made it student accommodation - you were given a tax break - which explains why we have so many student accommodation places. All the developer then does (as is happening in Cardiff right now) is appeal to the council saying there arent enough students available to fill the building - and so apply to change it to private accommodation instead. I'm not sure though that when they do that they have to pay their tax break back or not - I suspect not.
    Going back to the original post , there was an interesting article tonight on the icwales website

    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...ssive-13921504


    "According to Cabinet Member for Housing and Communities Lynda Thorne, of the 16 arrested for aggressive begging only one of these was actually registered as homeless."

    As stated there is no reason for anyone to be homeless in Cardiff (Cardiff Labour Council statement). It seems we have more a problem about alcoholics and drug addicts needing a fix than we do about homelessness. And the public are inadvertently helping them get worse not better.

    Again Lynda Thorne
    "She said: “It was a police action to address antisocial behaviour and aggressive begging. The statistics I had was that there were 16 arrests for aggressive begging and only one of those was registered as homeless.

    “People might say ‘how do you know’, well we have seven outreach workers who are out seven days a week, mornings and night times.

    “All of the partner organisations who provide the breakfast run, soup run and the night bus register everybody on the street.

    “There is a single gateway into homelessness so everybody knows who is registered. To be honest those people would be known to the police and outreach workers.”

  18. #258

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Must say the cops have sorted the problem with beggars outside Cardiff Central station asking for 50p that they're short of for their rail fare. But they've migrated to St Mary and especially Queen Street. Not surprised to learn from the article only one's genuinely homeless.

  19. #259

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Must say the cops have sorted the problem with beggars outside Cardiff Central station asking for 50p that they're short of for their rail fare. But they've migrated to St Mary and especially Queen Street. Not surprised to learn from the article only one's genuinely homeless.
    I was back in Cardiff on Friday for the weekend to watch city
    and a lady copper moved a "homeless man" along on queen street who was begging
    by where the queens west place was
    I overheard her colleagues mention to each other he was wasn't homeless
    I stopped because said lady copper was kind of cute and had a cracking bum (so I pretended to tie my shoe lace)

  20. #260

    Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

    The article says they prosecute persistent beggars, meaning they have become a right royal pain in the Aris before being placed before the magistrates, and therin's why they proliferate. A zero tolerance approach is the way to go, after all begging and vagrancy have been illegal since 1824. Everyone who's familiar with the problem all say the same - do not give them money.

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