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Thread: Why are attendances so poor?

  1. #51

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TH63 View Post
    To answer the OP, if anyone knows the answer, then let the club know, I'm sure they're just as baffled.

    I found these stats from the following website http://european-football-statistics....nclub/carc.htm

    I've just selected the years since my first game.

    Couple of key points.

    1. Average attendance during those 48 years is just 11,000
    2. After the rebrand, average attendances actually increased
    3. They only started going down again after we were relegated
    4. Last season in NP, we averaged just under 14,000
    5. Average attendance playing in Red - 24,000
    6. Average attendance playing in Blue - 10,000
    7. Despite all the issues about cost, shopping with the wife, rebrand, rugby, other things to do, attendances are still higher than they ever were during the last 40 years at NP.
    8. Who cares anyway? Did I enjoy standing on the bob bank with my mates in 1981 with 5,000 others any less than I do now sitting in the grandstand with the same mates and an extra 10,000 to keep us company?

    My point being, that despite all the rhetoric and despite some obvious individual opinions, in general terms, our fan base is more interested in league position than the colour of the shirt.

    If we go up, we'll suddenly find an extra 10,000 minimum clamouring for tickets. Maybe for the "wrong" reasons I grant you, but who knows, they may come to see Man U, but over time, maybe they'll be coming to see city.

    If that happens, I dare say some of us will be wishing we were back in NP with crowds of 5,000.


    2017 16564
    2016 16463
    2015 21124
    2014 27430
    2013 22999
    2012 22100
    2011 23194
    2010 20717
    2009 18000
    2008 13939
    2007 15223
    2006 11720
    2005 12976
    2004 15569
    2003 13050
    2002 12523
    2001 7962
    2000 6895
    1999 7131
    1998 3610
    1997 3594
    1996 3420
    1995 4543
    1994 6072
    1993 8560
    1992 6191
    1991 2946
    1990 3642
    1989 4385
    1988 4390
    1987 2826
    1986 3061
    1985 4363
    1984 7067
    1983 7036
    1982 5574
    1981 6767
    1980 9926
    1979 9246
    1978 8365
    1977 12790
    1976 11702
    1975 9143
    1974 10714
    1973 11456
    1972 15510
    1971 21535
    1970 21501

    Average 11157
    Good post

  2. #52

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Good post
    Post of the year for effort,very informative ,thanks TH63.

  3. #53

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Thanks for the comments

  4. #54

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    I'd forgotten how low the attendances were in the late 80's and early 90's. I was a regular then and I do remember that it was a breeze getting into NP - no queues even with 5 minutes to KO. Also it was quite possible to stand in the enclosure in front of the grandstand and not be within 10 yards of another supporter! Looking at the figures, what happened between 1977 and 1978 - why was there such a huge fall in percentage terms? 12790 down to 8365 - approx 35% drop. City were in Divn 2 in both those seasons weren't they?

  5. #55

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    City...two cheapest walk ups £36...

    Merthyr Vue (see Wonder Woman ❤️) £10

    It’s cash... but it’s more the ‘what we want to do with it’ has changed. We prefer to go to the cinema or Nando’s (I’ve never been). Football just isn’t as an attractive thing to do with the little spare cash we have when there are alternatives.

  6. #56

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/champi...wettbewerb/GB2

    This is an interesting read.

    Up by 3k from previous.
    Down 2 k from season 14/15

    Need to run a check on age groups to find out if it's a drop off from ageism
    I'd be interested in an age breakdown too, I've had a long running theory that Cardiff suffer from a lack of 30-45 year olds comparative to other clubs. I may be completely wrong though

  7. #57

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    I'd be interested in an age breakdown too, I've had a long running theory that Cardiff suffer from a lack of 30-45 year olds comparative to other clubs. I may be completely wrong though
    Interesting point. Now you mention it, whenever I’m in the ground, most people around me seeem to be 50+ ok I sit in the grandstand so no real shocks there, it probably the same people who’ve been going for years. Meanwhile, the family stand always looks half empty

  8. #58

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Let’s put this to bed once and for all.
    Wales is not a hotbed for football.
    Even this message board has fewer members than most.
    Last edited by William Treseder; 22-11-17 at 07:16. Reason: Spelling

  9. #59

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Thanks TH63 for putting all of that work in. I'll add one thing to what you say - 1960/61 is remembered as the season Spurs won the double and for City the big occasion that season was when we beat them 3-2 at Ninian Park in front of a crowd of 45,463. It was our first season back in the top flight after relegation in 1958 and yet, despite the boost that crowd against Spurs would have given the figure, our average attendance was only 22,310. The Spurs game was played in March and our crowds after that were 19,754, 16,339, 16,192 and 9,549 - Cardiff City's support, always has been fickle, always will be fickle.

    Regarding the drop in average attendance between 1977 ans 1978, I'm pretty sure that was mostly down to a combination of some parts of the ground not being used and early kick offs because the Council ordered the capacity had to be reduced to under five figures for a while and the floodlights could not be used after they insisted that Health and Safety work be carried out before they would allow the capacity to be increased again.

  10. #60

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Its quite simple.

    Not as many people as you think want to watch Cardiff these days.

    We need a cup run, that usually gets the natives out, or a season in the Prem, the customers love that one.

    The Prem FFS.

  11. #61

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Thanks TH63 for putting all of that work in. I'll add one thing to what you say - 1960/61 is remembered as the season Spurs won the double and for City the big occasion that season was when we beat them 3-2 at Ninian Park in front of a crowd of 45,463. It was our first season back in the top flight after relegation in 1958 and yet, despite the boost that crowd against Spurs would have given the figure, our average attendance was only 22,310. The Spurs game was played in March and our crowds after that were 19,754, 16,339, 16,192 and 9,549 - Cardiff City's support, always has been fickle, always will be fickle.

    Regarding the drop in average attendance between 1977 ans 1978, I'm pretty sure that was mostly down to a combination of some parts of the ground not being used and early kick offs because the Council ordered the capacity had to be reduced to under five figures for a while and the floodlights could not be used after they insisted that Health and Safety work be carried out before they would allow the capacity to be increased again.
    I started attending NP regularly from March 1978 having moved back to the area from Essex. I don't remember the floodlight episode that you mention but it sounds reasonable. If we had been relegated I could understand such a drop but we weren't.

  12. #62

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I started attending NP regularly from March 1978 having moved back to the area from Essex. I don't remember the floodlight episode that you mention but it sounds reasonable. If we had been relegated I could understand such a drop but we weren't.
    I think the problems had been sorted by March, but in the first half of the season we only played midweek matches until about September and even then they kicked off at 5.30/6, while Saturday afternoon matches were starting at half one and two during the autumn.

  13. #63

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I think the problems had been sorted by March, but in the first half of the season we only played midweek matches until about September and even then they kicked off at 5.30/6, while Saturday afternoon matches were starting at half one and two during the autumn.
    That's right, I remember leaving school and rushing to catch the train down to Cardiff for 5.30pm kick offs

    From TH63 post above attendances would naturally have gone up under the rebrand as we were top of the league and then had the season in the premier league. However I don't think the attendances would have dropped so dramatically afterwards without the rebrand though

  14. #64

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone View Post
    That's right, I remember leaving school and rushing to catch the train down to Cardiff for 5.30pm kick offs

    From TH63 post above attendances would naturally have gone up under the rebrand as we were top of the league and then had the season in the premier league. However I don't think the attendances would have dropped so dramatically afterwards without the rebrand though
    Exactly. 16400 for a Saturday game when in the top 3 is not down to "fickleness". Cardiff have never struggled for numbers when doing so well at this stage in a season.

    Most of those giving reasons for low attendances are people who are still attending, so it's little more than speculation.

    I stopped going after the promotion season - I could no longer identify with the club, it's fanbase (we won't miss you, you'll be replaced). If Tan hadn't tarnished the club's history (something I was always proud of, despite its lack of glamour) for reasons of superstition then I would still be attending along with 4 family members. People here seem to think we stopped going because we're fickle.

    Until Tan, it always felt that the club needed my support. Tan then said he would be happy with 25% of the fan base leaving. That statement alone had an impact because now the club were saying to its fans/customers - "you're not really that important". For a club like Cardiff where loyalty is worn as a badge of honour, it was a pretty stupid thing to say from someone who had little respect for the fabric of the club. He said that when crowds were 26000. He's lost a lot of those and some were people who would not have been anywhere else than at Cardiff v Brentford on Saturday. There are lots of reasons that the crowds can't touch the 20000 mark - but it isn't down to apathy and fickleness alone.

  15. #65

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I started attending NP regularly from March 1978 having moved back to the area from Essex. I don't remember the floodlight episode that you mention but it sounds reasonable. If we had been relegated I could understand such a drop but we weren't.
    The capacity at NP was reduced to 10000 at one stage in the 70s. It's in John Crooks' book.

  16. #66

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock View Post
    Its quite simple.

    Not as many people as you think want to watch Cardiff these days.

    We need a cup run, that usually gets the natives out, or a season in the Prem, the customers love that one.

    The Prem FFS.
    Look at the averages as posted above, I'm under no illusions, it's been the way forever.

    I can accept it, I can also accept "plastics" who bump up our crowds. Hopefully a few start to stay and our base attendance grows a bit.

  17. #67

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt View Post
    Exactly. 16400 for a Saturday game when in the top 3 is not down to "fickleness". Cardiff have never struggled for numbers when doing so well at this stage in a season.

    Most of those giving reasons for low attendances are people who are still attending, so it's little more than speculation.

    I stopped going after the promotion season - I could no longer identify with the club, it's fanbase (we won't miss you, you'll be replaced). If Tan hadn't tarnished the club's history (something I was always proud of, despite its lack of glamour) for reasons of superstition then I would still be attending along with 4 family members. People here seem to think we stopped going because we're fickle.

    Until Tan, it always felt that the club needed my support. Tan then said he would be happy with 25% of the fan base leaving. That statement alone had an impact because now the club were saying to its fans/customers - "you're not really that important". For a club like Cardiff where loyalty is worn as a badge of honour, it was a pretty stupid thing to say from someone who had little respect for the fabric of the club. He said that when crowds were 26000. He's lost a lot of those and some were people who would not have been anywhere else than at Cardiff v Brentford on Saturday. There are lots of reasons that the crowds can't touch the 20000 mark - but it isn't down to apathy and fickleness alone.
    groundhog-day-1_1050_591_81_s_c1.jpg

  18. #68

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    The trouble is , when the club gets a big gate , like against Leeds , they try and get them interested by offering cheap deals , such as the kids for a quid deal on Halloween............and those very same fans just don't bother

    They are not fans of Cardiff city , they are typical south Wales sports fans ......they turn up for the big games ......as they do for international rugby .......and then vanish

    They will sing as long as we beat the English at the rugby on a Saturday then go home and cheer on English football teams on sky TV , from their front room or the local pub

  19. #69

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt View Post
    Exactly. 16400 for a Saturday game when in the top 3 is not down to "fickleness". Cardiff have never struggled for numbers when doing so well at this stage in a season.

    Most of those giving reasons for low attendances are people who are still attending, so it's little more than speculation.

    I stopped going after the promotion season - I could no longer identify with the club, it's fanbase (we won't miss you, you'll be replaced). If Tan hadn't tarnished the club's history (something I was always proud of, despite its lack of glamour) for reasons of superstition then I would still be attending along with 4 family members. People here seem to think we stopped going because we're fickle.

    Until Tan, it always felt that the club needed my support. Tan then said he would be happy with 25% of the fan base leaving. That statement alone had an impact because now the club were saying to its fans/customers - "you're not really that important". For a club like Cardiff where loyalty is worn as a badge of honour, it was a pretty stupid thing to say from someone who had little respect for the fabric of the club. He said that when crowds were 26000. He's lost a lot of those and some were people who would not have been anywhere else than at Cardiff v Brentford on Saturday. There are lots of reasons that the crowds can't touch the 20000 mark - but it isn't down to apathy and fickleness alone.
    Sorry, can't agree with that. TH63's list only goes back to 1970, but the seasons immediately preceding that also saw buoyant attendances, following decent league seasons and the European runs.

    For the past 52 years I have witnessed regular wild fluctuation in attendances, depending on how well City are doing. Vincent Tan was still a youth selling newspapers in Malaysia or whatever he was doing when this trend was already in evidence. I dare say a few remain offended by the circumstances regarding the change to red, but not nearly in the numbers that would affect attendances that much.

    No, you just have to face up to the fact that Cardiff City supporters are historically fickle.

  20. #70

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Our next Saturday 3pm home game is January 13th.
    That’ll almost be 2 months after last Saturdays game against Brentford.

  21. #71

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Nothing to do with the rebrand nor Tan's wild proclamations. It's all because of some spurious reasons regurgitated by people who still attend.

    Alfie Sherwood, TLG, Jordi Cule - off the top of my head these were people who attended religiously who have stopped attending. What were their reasons for not going?

  22. #72

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    The trouble is , when the club gets a big gate , like against Leeds , they try and get them interested by offering cheap deals , such as the kids for a quid deal on Halloween............and those very same fans just don't bother

    They are not fans of Cardiff city , they are typical south Wales sports fans ......they turn up for the big games ......as they do for international rugby .......and then vanish

    They will sing as long as we beat the English at the rugby on a Saturday then go home and cheer on English football teams on sky TV , from their front room or the local pub
    Sadly, I think you're right Sludge. Thanks to a cheap ticket deal, we get over 27,000 on a Tuesday night for a match against the league leaders and give them a bit of a hiding. We then face a team that is currently in the top six four days later with normal prices and nearly nine thousand less are there. Now I reckon there were some who turned up for the Leeds match and were so impressed that they bought a ticket for the Derby game and, who knows, they may have been to every match since, but, far, far more of those who don't go to matches often who were tempted into coming to the Leeds game have not bothered since despite the fact that they must, surely, have enjoyed themselves that night. I daresay a few who were at the Leeds match also made it along to the Villa game in August where we laid on another excellent display, but it seems that with some people in this area, what the team does when they go to a game makes no difference to them - that's got nothing to do with the rebrand and everything to do with being a "typical south Wales fan".

  23. #73

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bob Banker Spanker View Post
    Our next Saturday 3pm home game is January 13th.
    That’ll almost be 2 months after last Saturdays game against Brentford.
    Ding ding ding...we have a winner.

    If you had all this spare time in between games, would you find something else to do? Don't get me wrong they could come to midweek games and That, but many have other commitments, well done to those that manage to do all home games, what with work and family etc to contend for time as well.
    I know "plastic" United fans who have been to European games, cup games, all home games and still managed plenty of always, if not all...if people want to go they will go.

  24. #74

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Let’s put this to bed once and for all.
    Wales is not a hotbed for football.
    Even this message board has fewer members than most.

    that's including the many posters who have multiple names

    (still haven't worked out whos who )

  25. #75

    Re: Why are attendances so poor?

    Leeds match - Cheap tickets - Large crowd

    Other games - More expensive tickets - Small crowd

    Q. Why are attendances so poor?
    A. Tickets are too expensive.

    Hope this helps.

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