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Thread: True socialism is the answer

  1. #51

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    Non sequitur.
    If you sell off 1000 homes you reduce demand by 1000 also, as those former tenants no longer require social housing (as they own their home).

    The total housing stock doesn't change, the total number of occupiers doesn't change. What does change is the legal owner.
    You still haven't addressed the issue of new people wanting social housing. Youngsters moving out of family homes, couples splitting and one needing accomodation, etc etc.

    By your logic we never need more housing as demand always stays the same. Bollocks.

  2. #52

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    Get on the comedians son , remember the Brighton bombing , or was this Daily Mail propaganda
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    You still haven't addressed the issue of new people wanting social housing. Youngsters moving out of family homes, couples splitting and one needing accomodation, etc etc.

    By your logic we never need more housing as demand always stays the same. Bollocks.
    Domestic violence leading to women with children fleeing to a women's aid hostel then needing housing .....let's call the council ......this woman is vulnerable and in priority need because she has children .....

    Council ? Oh sorry we have been forced to sell them

  3. #53

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    You still haven't addressed the issue of new people wanting social housing. Youngsters moving out of family homes, couples splitting and one needing accomodation, etc etc.

    By your logic we never need more housing as demand always stays the same. Bollocks.

    Demand is bound to stay the same if the population has only increased by multi millions. Oh!

  4. #54

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    You still haven't addressed the issue of new people wanting social housing. Youngsters moving out of family homes, couples splitting and one needing accomodation, etc etc.

    By your logic we never need more housing as demand always stays the same. Bollocks.
    Have you addressed the older generation dying?

  5. #55

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    In the post war years until 1952 , we had a true socialist government under the great Clement Attlee

    That's what we need to get back to , a society for all of us

    Since Thatcher turned up , the free market has destroyed all sense of society and caring for people less fortunate than ourselves

    Today greed , self interest rule and everything that isn't nailed down has been sold

    The railways , public utilities , etc and the NHS is next

    Forget may , forget Cameron , forget new labour and it's pretend caring side

    The country needs someone like corbyn

    If he can get rid of the hangers on , we might turn around the never ending race to the bottom and me me me culture we have seen envelop this country

    Happy Christmas , especially to the poor , those sleeping on the streets and the marginalised in society
    The shame is: that with all the money the free market generates, there is more than enough to pay for health, education and the needy.

    However, keep them fat and stupid seems to be working well for the 1%.

  6. #56

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Have you addressed the older generation dying?
    Yes.

    An older person passing away would leave a council house for someone on the waiting list to be homed in. A person passing away who has bought their property will pass their house on to family etc. If that house hasn't been replaced by the local authority, then there is one less property to go to someone adding themselves to a waiting list.

  7. #57

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    Get on the comedians son , remember the Brighton bombing , or was this Daily Mail propaganda
    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    The shame is: that with all the money the free market generates, there is more than enough to pay for health, education and the needy.

    However, keep them fat and stupid seems to be working well for the 1%.
    Come the revolution but not in my lifetime

    It will all be too late by then

  8. #58

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    02920 341577

    Help and support with legal matters , housing and benefits , including filling in forms , appeals and representation at tribunals

    You will need to book a slot first , they have legal aid lawyers

    Lower cathedral road , Riverside , Cardiff

    If you are out of the Cardiff area , they will put you in touch with a local service
    Thank you Sludge. Did the DLA forms myself last time and they look similar,but it took ages and I am not sure I have the energy at the moment.

  9. #59

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    Get on the comedians son , remember the Brighton bombing , or was this Daily Mail propaganda
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Yes.

    An older person passing away would leave a council house for someone on the waiting list to be homed in. A person passing away who has bought their property will pass their house on to family etc. If that house hasn't been replaced by the local authority, then there is one less property to go to someone adding themselves to a waiting list.
    There's a bloke lives by me in a council house , he's ninety , real good bloke , he could have bought his house years ago , he has plenty of family he could pass it onto

    But he's a true socialist and that property will be available for the next family in need of social housing when he passes away

    That's what council houses were built for in the post war period , not to be sold off on the free market leading to increased social division , leaving what remains to be a dumping ground for the vulnerable

  10. #60

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    Get on the comedians son , remember the Brighton bombing , or was this Daily Mail propaganda
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    Thank you Sludge. Did the DLA forms myself last time and they look similar,but it took ages and I am not sure I have the energy at the moment.
    No problem mate , you are welcome , get in touch with them , they will go through things with you , take the stress off you and your Mrs

  11. #61

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    In the post war years until 1952 , we had a true socialist government under the great Clement Attlee

    That's what we need to get back to , a society for all of us

    Since Thatcher turned up , the free market has destroyed all sense of society and caring for people less fortunate than ourselves

    Today greed , self interest rule and everything that isn't nailed down has been sold

    The railways , public utilities , etc and the NHS is next

    Forget may , forget Cameron , forget new labour and it's pretend caring side

    The country needs someone like corbyn

    If he can get rid of the hangers on , we might turn around the never ending race to the bottom and me me me culture we have seen envelop this country

    Happy Christmas , especially to the poor , those sleeping on the streets and the marginalised in society
    The trouble with your argument is that Corbyn isnt a true Socialist, he is a Trotskyist/Communist, supported by people like that paragon of virtue 'The Socialist Worker' and hooligans like 'Momentum'. God knows where we will end up if we start agreeing with them.

  12. #62

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Have a look at Somalia, with practically zero state- that's where the Tories want to take us.

    Reductio ad absurdum works both ways.
    “When we celebrate, and it is a cause for celebration, the achievements of Venezuela, in jobs, in housing, in health, in education, but above all its role in the whole world as a completely different place, then we do that because we recognise what they have achieved.”

    Care to point out when any Tory has praised Somalia in such gushing terms? No? Absurdum indeed.

  13. #63
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    Re: True socialism is the answer

    come on mike. this shouldn't be here!!!!

  14. #64

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    EDIT: Deleted a very belated duplicate post for some wierd reason.

  15. #65
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    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    You are wasting your time with supporters of free market capitalism mate

    Keep the faith , one day it's all going to go tits up and the never ending greed of today's society will be responsible
    Sadly sludge you're wrong.
    the soviet union was founded on the priciple but it didn't work. One of the main reasons it didn't work was greed, the so called socialist aparatchiks were just as greedy as you say the tories are.
    Even in bad times they produced enough food to feed the nation but it rotted in railway sidings because no one could afford to pay the bribes needed to get it moved. thew whole society was build on bribery and corruption And don't tell me that is western propagand because I know for a fact it isn't. I live in a society where the practice of paying to make a document acceptable still goes on, a society where ordinary working people are still in poverty, and I mean true poverty not like the so called poor here.
    People work all their lives for a pittance with no health provision no old age pension and unless their family buys it collectively no home, literally no home with no chance of the government even pretending to help.
    My wife grew up in this society. She told m for example that before 1992 they only had 3 kinds of soap, green whiute and black - and they were all horrible. All they had to eat was potatoes and bread. No butter, it was unheard of.
    She only gets things done now because she is married to "An Englishman" (they don't know the difference) which means she has the money to do the things her erstwhile peers cannot do, and people either want to be associated with her for the kudos or they're afraid to try and rip her off in case I complain through the british embassy.
    This is socialism truly at work, or rather the tail end of it in a country kicking and screaming to free itself of all the socialism it enjoyed for 80+ years.

    If you want that for this country then I for one am out!!!!

  16. #66

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Sadly sludge you're wrong.
    the soviet union was founded on the priciple but it didn't work. One of the main reasons it didn't work was greed, the so called socialist aparatchiks were just as greedy as you say the tories are.
    Even in bad times they produced enough food to feed the nation but it rotted in railway sidings because no one could afford to pay the bribes needed to get it moved. thew whole society was build on bribery and corruption And don't tell me that is western propagand because I know for a fact it isn't. I live in a society where the practice of paying to make a document acceptable still goes on, a society where ordinary working people are still in poverty, and I mean true poverty not like the so called poor here.
    People work all their lives for a pittance with no health provision no old age pension and unless their family buys it collectively no home, literally no home with no chance of the government even pretending to help.
    My wife grew up in this society. She told m for example that before 1992 they only had 3 kinds of soap, green whiute and black - and they were all horrible. All they had to eat was potatoes and bread. No butter, it was unheard of.
    She only gets things done now because she is married to "An Englishman" (they don't know the difference) which means she has the money to do the things her erstwhile peers cannot do, and people either want to be associated with her for the kudos or they're afraid to try and rip her off in case I complain through the british embassy.
    This is socialism truly at work, or rather the tail end of it in a country kicking and screaming to free itself of all the socialism it enjoyed for 80+ years.

    If you want that for this country then I for one am out!!!!
    Rubbish , you are confusing socialism with communism , seen at its most blunt under Stalin

    In 1945 we had a true socialist government that built the NHS , invested in public transport and social housing

    That's socialism

  17. #67
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    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics.

  18. #68

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Try collectivism Sludge , that maybe preferential to full on bollocking Socialism. It's an idea but unfortunately neither will succeed . All the problems in our social and health services come from complete mismanagement. We waste so much public money it is staggering. If a political party addresses this , I would be all over it like a rash .

  19. #69

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    However in the real world it is unclear where the money is going to come from for things like rail privatisation
    Can you explain what you mean by this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    Taxing business and the wealthy simply doesn't work
    It seems to work quite well actually, it is what we currently do.

  20. #70

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    In the end every ideology falls flat on its face because because it doesn't account for the fact that such a high proportion of humans are self-serving greedy *****.

  21. #71

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    Try collectivism Sludge , that maybe preferential to full on bollocking Socialism. It's an idea but unfortunately neither will succeed . All the problems in our social and health services come from complete mismanagement. We waste so much public money it is staggering. If a political party addresses this , I would be all over it like a rash .
    Massive under funding has been the main issue. It's almost like the NHS is being made to fail so it can be privatised.

  22. #72

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Can you explain what you mean by this?


    .
    I'be forgotten the name of it but the railway that runs the east coast of England was nationalised for one year and made a decent profit the 2 years either side is was privatised and made huge losses.

  23. #73

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    The debt is 1.5 trillion
    The deficit used to be 150 billion per year
    The deficit is now down to 50 Billion

    Corbyn / McDonnell policy was to spend 250Billion - and hope that they would be able to raise tax in order to recoup the money. They seem to forget that businesses move their money to avoid excessive damage to their income.
    result - more debt - greater deficit, and with such massive increases in public spending you would introduce inflation into the economy.

    It all sounds great in principle - never works in practice - if in debt see how Hollande got on in France or dare I mention it Venezuela
    Yeah, and 8 years of cuts is working isn't it? We still have a deficit, a deficit that spreadsheet Phil can't eradicate, and the Tories have borrowed more than Labour. At least Labour are talking about investments - something this country needs feedy.

  24. #74

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Rubbish , you are confusing socialism with communism , seen at its most blunt under Stalin

    In 1945 we had a true socialist government that built the NHS , invested in public transport and social housing

    That's socialism
    Spot on.

  25. #75

    Re: True socialism is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    In the end every ideology falls flat on its face because because it doesn't account for the fact that such a high proportion of humans are self-serving greedy *****.
    Yeah, ideally we'd live in a society ruled by an incorruptible, benevolent elite class. But unfortunately everyone's corrupt or corruptible.

    I remember reading that the typical person on average physically meets/interacts with 80,000 people during their lifetime. That would mean a Briton would meet 1 in every 825 fellow UK citizens, a tiny fraction in anyone's book.

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