True socialism is the answer

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

In the post war years until 1952 , we had a true socialist government under the great Clement Attlee

That's what we need to get back to , a society for all of us

Since Thatcher turned up , the free market has destroyed all sense of society and caring for people less fortunate than ourselves

Today greed , self interest rule and everything that isn't nailed down has been sold

The railways , public utilities , etc and the NHS is next

Forget may , forget Cameron , forget new labour and it's pretend caring side

The country needs someone like corbyn

If he can get rid of the hangers on , we might turn around the never ending race to the bottom and me me me culture we have seen envelop this country

Happy Christmas , especially to the poor , those sleeping on the streets and the marginalised in society

[Nick]

>>>>>>Politics forum.

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

In the post war years until 1952 , we had a true socialist government under the great Clement Attlee

That's what we need to get back to , a society for all of us

Since Thatcher turned up , the free market has destroyed all sense of society and caring for people less fortunate than ourselves

Today greed , self interest rule and everything that isn't nailed down has been sold

The railways , public utilities , etc and the NHS is next

Forget may , forget Cameron , forget new labour and it's pretend caring side

The country needs someone like corbyn

If he can get rid of the hangers on , we might turn around the never ending race to the bottom and me me me culture we have seen envelop this country

Happy Christmas , especially to the poor , those sleeping on the streets and the marginalised in society

Before the election, I thought Corbyn was a joke. There was no way I would vote for him. But, out came his policies, and the only ones painting him as a disaster are the Murdoch press. I think we need a decade of Socialism to fix the unfairness of society. Let's get homes for the homeless. Let's get jobs for the jobless, and meaningful jobs. Corbyn gets my vote.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Before the election, I thought Corbyn was a joke. There was no way I would vote for him. But, out came his policies, and the only ones painting him as a disaster are the Murdoch press. I think we need a decade of Socialism to fix the unfairness of society. Let's get homes for the homeless. Let's get jobs for the jobless, and meaningful jobs. Corbyn gets my vote.

This governments so called house building programme won't help those in housing need get what is required ......low cost rented housing

It's going to push more people into debt

In the post war period there was no shame in renting from the local council

But Thatcher for political reasons , to win votes and weaken the local councils , pushed the right to buy with massive subsidies and we are left with the housing crisis we have today .....a nation obsessed with home ownership and people breaking their backs to keep up with mortgages they can't afford

Capitalism is taking us to oblivion

[Feedback]

This governments so called house building programme won't help those in housing need get what is required ......low cost rented housing

It's going to push more people into debt

In the post war period there was no shame in renting from the local council

But Thatcher for political reasons , to win votes and weaken the local councils , pushed the right to buy with massive subsidies and we are left with the housing crisis we have today .....a nation obsessed with home ownership and people breaking their backs to keep up with mortgages they can't afford

Capitalism is taking us to oblivion

repeating a lie over an over doesn't make it a truth

Thatcher built more social housing in her last year of office than Blair and Brown did in the entirety of their tenure.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

repeating a lie over an over doesn't make it a truth

Is that the one about Labour overspending causing our current economic misery? The only people pedalling that load of nonsense are the Tories and their friends in the media, not independent, impartial, accredited and recognised fiscal organisations.

[Feedback]

Is that the one about Labour overspending causing our current economic misery? The only people pedalling that load of nonsense are the Tories and their friends in the media, not independent, impartial, accredited and recognised fiscal organisations.

what has this got to do with the OP?

however, I will humour you. I doubt anyone has ever said labour were solely responsible. What some, me included, have said was that Labour were asleep at the tiller whilst the lightly regulated banks and consumers were going credit crazy. Labour were also responsible for the spending plans that saw the UK experience a >10% deficit in 2009. It matters not if the Tories agreed the plans in advance, it was up to Labour as the party in Power to ensure suitable plans were in place to cover any shock to the economy. They failed.

it is old news anyway. all parties fail eventually, it is only a matter of time. Look how this shower of shite are imploding over the perennial question of Europe.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

>>>>>>Politics forum.

I am sure it will be moved in time , that's up to Mike and the mods

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

This governments so called house building programme won't help those in housing need get what is required ......low cost rented housing

It's going to push more people into debt

In the post war period there was no shame in renting from the local council

But Thatcher for political reasons , to win votes and weaken the local councils , pushed the right to buy with massive subsidies and we are left with the housing crisis we have today .....a nation obsessed with home ownership and people breaking their backs to keep up with mortgages they can't afford

Capitalism is taking us to oblivion

It's already taken many. Being in debt has led to many a suicide. Fact is, most of us are one bad day away from being homeless. It has happened to wealthier and cleverer people than me. My biggest debt is the mortgage - in all honesty I don't need to own a home but have been socially conditioned into wanting to own one.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

repeating a lie over an over doesn't make it a truth

Thatcher built more social housing in her last year of office than Blair and Brown did in the entirety of their tenure.

How many did she sell ?

And don't get me started on Blair , he was no socialist , he was Maggie in a red dress

[Feedback]

How many did she sell ?

And don't get me started on Blair , he was no socialist , he was Maggie in a red dress

I see. you can't support your original position so you change tack.

Yes of course Maggie sold of social housing. This didn't change the demand for social housing, this didn't change the total housing stock in the UK. what it did do was make a lot of less well off a lot happier as they now had the chance to own their own home - something that was the preserve of the rich and middle classes until RTB.

[Rocco Siffredi]

Have a look at Venezuela, this is what Corbyn aspires to , god forbid he is ever given power .

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Have a look at Venezuela, this is what Corbyn aspires to , god forbid he is ever given power .

Amazing how they conveniently forget that. I always loved the way Owen Jones contorted himself into bigging up Venezuela when he'd have been persecuted both for being gay and a "journalist".

Besides, surely you got the memo now that Venezuela wasn't really socialist...

[Rjk]

Have a look at Venezuela, this is what Corbyn aspires to , god forbid he is ever given power .

Have a look at Somalia, with practically zero state- that's where the Tories want to take us.

Reductio ad absurdum works both ways.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Have a look at Somalia, with practically zero state- that's where the Tories want to take us.

Reductio ad absurdum works both ways.

“When we celebrate, and it is a cause for celebration, the achievements of Venezuela, in jobs, in housing, in health, in education, but above all its role in the whole world as a completely different place, then we do that because we recognise what they have achieved.”

Care to point out when any Tory has praised Somalia in such gushing terms? No? Absurdum indeed.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

It's already taken many. Being in debt has led to many a suicide. Fact is, most of us are one bad day away from being homeless. It has happened to wealthier and cleverer people than me. My biggest debt is the mortgage - in all honesty I don't need to own a home but have been socially conditioned into wanting to own one.

Indeed , there is a brilliant book written by a fella from Bristol university's housing policy department called the property owning democracy , all about Thatcher's social conditioning of housing

People who couldn't afford a house were pushed into the idea that they could , lots of people who took up the right to buy still couldn't afford the mortgage and they ended up homeless and dependent on poor quality private rented housing and the cost was again lumped on the taxpayer through housing benefit , going to greedy landlords

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Have a look at Venezuela, this is what Corbyn aspires to , god forbid he is ever given power .

No he doesn't ya daft sod , that's the right wing media you have been reading and watching

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Is that the one about Labour overspending causing our current economic misery? The only people pedalling that load of nonsense are the Tories and their friends in the media, not independent, impartial, accredited and recognised fiscal organisations.

You are wasting your time with supporters of free market capitalism mate

Keep the faith , one day it's all going to go tits up and the never ending greed of today's society will be responsible

[xsnaggle]

You are wasting your time with supporters of free market capitalism mate

Keep the faith , one day it's all going to go tits up and the never ending greed of today's society will be responsible

Sadly sludge you're wrong.
the soviet union was founded on the priciple but it didn't work. One of the main reasons it didn't work was greed, the so called socialist aparatchiks were just as greedy as you say the tories are.
Even in bad times they produced enough food to feed the nation but it rotted in railway sidings because no one could afford to pay the bribes needed to get it moved. thew whole society was build on bribery and corruption And don't tell me that is western propagand because I know for a fact it isn't. I live in a society where the practice of paying to make a document acceptable still goes on, a society where ordinary working people are still in poverty, and I mean true poverty not like the so called poor here.
People work all their lives for a pittance with no health provision no old age pension and unless their family buys it collectively no home, literally no home with no chance of the government even pretending to help.
My wife grew up in this society. She told m for example that before 1992 they only had 3 kinds of soap, green whiute and black - and they were all horrible. All they had to eat was potatoes and bread. No butter, it was unheard of.
She only gets things done now because she is married to "An Englishman" (they don't know the difference) which means she has the money to do the things her erstwhile peers cannot do, and people either want to be associated with her for the kudos or they're afraid to try and rip her off in case I complain through the british embassy.
This is socialism truly at work, or rather the tail end of it in a country kicking and screaming to free itself of all the socialism it enjoyed for 80+ years.

If you want that for this country then I for one am out!!!!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I see. you can't support your original position so you change tack.

Yes of course Maggie sold of social housing. This didn't change the demand for social housing, this didn't change the total housing stock in the UK. what it did do was make a lot of less well off a lot happier as they now had the chance to own their own home - something that was the preserve of the rich and middle classes until RTB.

Complete nonsense , it dramatically reduced the stock of social council housing available to local authorities to house those in need , the nice council houses were sold , leaving the worst stock on the poorest areas of estates .....sink estates .....to house those left

A nightmare of a policy

Do you know gibbonsdown in Barry or the colcot estate or the snowden road area of Ely , off Wilson road ?

Why do you think very few council houses were sold in these areas compared to those on better council housing areas ?

It wasn't about increasing home ownership it was about weakening local authorities and getting working class people to vote Tory

[Feedback]

I said it did not reduce the housing stock, which it did not; for each reduction in social housing stock was a corresponding increase in private housing. For each house that was sold removed the requirement by social housing by the same amount. The demand for social housing was the same before as it was after with no increase or decrease.

What I do find bizarre is that home ownership and tenancy are issues that have blighted the poorest in society since time immemorial and here we have a policy which allows those to own their own home - previously the preserve of the rich and middle classes - being derided by the left even. madness.

NB why shouldn't the Tories want the electorate to vote for them? You seem to think only the left have the answer. That is of course absurd. If one political thought had all the answers governments the world over would adhere to that way of thinking.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I said it did not reduce the housing stock, which it did not; for each reduction in social housing stock was a corresponding increase in private housing. For each house that was sold removed the requirement by social housing by the same amount. The demand for social housing was the same before as it was after with no increase or decrease.

That's not correct, is it? You're not taking the flow of demand for social housing into consideration or taking into account new applicants for social housing.

Each year, people that live in social housing will end up not needing to. Each year, people that don't live in social housing will end up needing to.

Take the amount of people no longer needing social housing to be the same as the number of people suddenly requiring social housing. If the number of council/housing association properties remains the same, then the people who no longer need social housing (through deaths, moving to better areas etc) end up having their properties taken over by those who need them.

Suppose you sell off, say, 1000 homes and don't replace them. That means there's 1000 homes less for those who suddenly need to apply to live in social housing.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I said it did not reduce the housing stock, which it did not; for each reduction in social housing stock was a corresponding increase in private housing. For each house that was sold removed the requirement by social housing by the same amount. The demand for social housing was the same before as it was after with no increase or decrease.

What I do find bizarre is that home ownership and tenancy are issues that have blighted the poorest in society since time immemorial and here we have a policy which allows those to own their own home - previously the preserve of the rich and middle classes - being derided by the left even. madness.

NB why shouldn't the Tories want the electorate to vote for them? You seem to think only the left have the answer. That is of course absurd. If one political thought had all the answers governments the world over would adhere to that way of thinking.

You are talking out of your arse

Read a property owning democracy by professor Peter malpass of Bristol university on the effect of the right to buy

Alternatively e mail him

He's an expert on the subject , unlike yourself

[Rocco Siffredi]

No he doesn't ya daft sod , that's the right wing media you have been reading and watching

What about all his meetings with Gerry Adams and his murderers back in the seventies , right wing photoshopped???

[GRUMPYS DEN]

What about all his meetings with Gerry Adams and his murderers back in the seventies , right wing photoshopped???

Corbyn and Abbott-the dream team!!!