Do you think this lot had an effect on the Brexit vote outcome?

[the other bob wilson]

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/...avourite-here/

For what it's worth, I reckon they did in promoting an image that the EU were the epitome of political correctness gone mad.

[Wales-Bales]

So glad the BBC don't get involved in propaganda

[Mrs Steve R]

So glad the BBC don't get involved in propaganda

Why did I read this with a mouth full of coconut oil? you trying to kill me?

[Vimto]

Indeed, of course the Press - as per article - have moulded our views on Europe. Especially the ragtops.
I'm sure the TV media have too.

[Vimto]

What have the Romans ever done for us ..

[Vimto]

^^
That's why I didn't waste any of my life replying to your 'demand'.
What a waste of time.

I'm not even particularly a Europhile.
Nor a committed remainer. Nor a Brexiteer.

I just see shambles and _nobody_ getting what they actually voted for. Or thought they had voted for..

Or perhaps I agree with WB , that the shambles _is_ the plan. Perhaps.

[life on mars]

Vim

Off the top of your head (no googling now) what are the top 10 GOOD things the EU do - in your opinion

Off the top of my head ,honest :
Minimum wage
Work time regulations .
Free movement of labour .
Collective trade deal.
Health and Safety uplift Paternity leave .
The ugliness of Farage and the right.
Bigotry exposed.
Huge Investment into Wales .
Ability of young people to move freely ,live and study where ever they liked .

[life on mars]

Playing Devils advocate rather than Dick Advocate - could we not do that if we are outside the EU ? , we have the 'Living Wage' , we can introduce work time regulations as we see fit. Same goes for paternity leave (we do have our own Parliament I think) , it doesnt need the EU to expose bigotry - Hitler proved that and we werent in the EU then either.

Investment in Wales - definitely - in Wales we got given more than we put in , although that objective 1 funding (I think that's what its called) is ending or has ended - has there are poorer nations than Wales now.

Erasmus arrangement for students - no reason that cant continue post Brexit - if both sides agree to it. All I'm saying is that we dont need the EU to do things for us - we can do that ourselves. It would be a damn site easier for everyone if we were still in though.

Yes I'm sure we could have achieved all that on our own , question is though , would we have , without european legislation and push,or would successive governments spent or legislated elsewhere ?

[the other bob wilson]

Yes I'm sure we could have achieved all that on our own , question is though , would we have , without european legislation and push,or would successive governments spent or legislated elsewhere ?

Exactly, we had plenty of opportunity to do it all before we joined the old Common Market in the 70s.

[life on mars]

I would counter that - in theory yes maybe the UK Govts (Labour, Conservative and Coalition) would have been this evil regime that did everything in its powers to hurt employees, women, put up taxes etc.

Or instead - in recent years - the raising of the income tax allowance to 12k, first the minimum wage, now the Living wage etc etc.

My only small point being is that it doesnt take an EU commission to make laws - we are capable and have been provenm to be capable of passing laws on our own - without having to bung the EU 10 Billion NET a year - that's all - just a simple point.

International container storage system - now used the world over - has eased shipping to an almost childlike ease. That didn't involve the EU, or a commissioner making the law etc, it was done as the person who invented it waived his copyright.

We dont need an additional 5 new countries to join the EU, we didnt want TTIP, an EU defence force or for France and the UK to concede their UN security council seats in favour an EU one etc etc etc.

All the countries of the European area need is a system where they can trade freely amongst one another, if they want to use their own 'wholesale traders' currency - that's up to them. We need a system that means corporations pay tax on the product sold where the customer lives - not in Ireland or Luxembourg - common sense in my book - but the EU wont change - so it seems the people will change it for them.

I had lunch yesterday with an ex work colleague - she works for a software company in the netherlands - for her - the feeling on the streets of Utrecht - is the same anti EU sentiment as there was here. Unless the EU addresses this - there will never be harmony - in my small humble and on the whole irrelevant opinion.

Your last para sums up why they have payed a hard game with May and co ,they must be terrified of us being successful, hence the spin , enticing in Labour comment , I think they want the divorce bill and add on' s to be so terrifying, that others like Holland would not consider going there .

I voted to stay in , however I am beginning to doubt it as I view in real timd the hierarchy make up and
Its brow beating , it's very big brother and bullish ,run by two countries Germany and France.

I still disagree on the points of employee law and Welsh investment though .