Lee Tomlin question....

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Go tell the other office boys to stop picking on you mate, go have a 10 minute sit down onbthe bogs and calm down.. walk and have a coffee..

Playing the player not the ball, eh?

[Penarth Blues]

I get the feeling he's a fat bastard tbh, that pathetic "big ribs" comment...

He's a professional footballer, earning a professional footballers wage. Onus is on him to manage his weight and fitness, he's not a bloody child.

Nobody is saying he has to have the greatest cardio in the history of football but when the view of the staff of the club is that he can't at this point manage 90 minutes it's absolutely pathetic.

All I hear is excuse after excuse... oh community service. That stops him using an exercise bike after finishing the service? If you've got the drive to want to play 90 minutes each and every game, then you work your bollocks off to achieve it.

There is clearly this aspect to the whole saga surrounding Lee. The question is whether you accept that for the other things he brings? At present it is clear that NW is not sure that his positives outweigh his negatives for a full game.

What I would hope is not in doubt is that he brings a skill level to the side that no other player can manage and could be the key to us winning games against those sides which set up to stop us getting in behind them through the use of speed alone.

I'm pleased NW has him as an option for matches no matter how disappointing it is that he can't seem to get his fitness up to what is needed to play week in week out

[ccfc_is_my_life]

There is clearly this aspect to the whole saga surrounding Lee. The question is whether you accept that for the other things he brings? At present it is clear that NW is not sure that his positives outweigh his negatives for a full game.

What I would hope is not in doubt is that he brings a skill level to the side that no other player can manage and could be the key to us winning games against those sides which set up to stop us getting in behind them through the use of speed alone.

I'm pleased NW has him as an option for matches no matter how disappointing it is that he can't seem to get his fitness up to what is needed to play week in week out

I've absolutely zero doubt he has class, is able to turn a game at this level. He's one of the most skillful players we have. No argument on that score from me.

What I question is his professionalism. It's for me inexcusable that a professional footballer at this level midway through a season is as out of shape as Tomlin has clearly been.

Le Tissier was certainly never a world class athlete; didn't need to be but he played 90 minutes every week. He wasn't used as a bit part player.

A fully fit Tomlin playing off Zohore, My god, even Wolvesalona would drool over the prospect. Yes, Zohore is out injured but even if he wasn't, it doesn't look as if 90 minutes of Zohore and Tomlin together would be anywhere near close to happening. I want players ( injury, form excluded ) capable of playing each and every game if needed.

[dembethewarrior]

Playing the player not the ball, eh?

Reading your poat I think you know I replied to the post not the poster.

What makes u say that anyway? Last interaction I had with you was Saturday talking about mls and that Carl fella..

No picky choosy now eh pal..

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Reading your poat I think you know I replied to the post not the poster.

What makes u say that anyway? Last interaction I had with you was Saturday talking about mls and that Carl fella..

No picky choosy now eh pal..

I'm glad you've been imbibing the Christmas spirit.

[Penarth Blues]

I've absolutely zero doubt he has class, is able to turn a game at this level. He's one of the most skillful players we have. No argument on that score from me.

What I question is his professionalism. It's for me inexcusable that a professional footballer at this level midway through a season is as out of shape as Tomlin has clearly been.

Le Tissier was certainly never a world class athlete; didn't need to be but he played 90 minutes every week. He wasn't used as a bit part player.

A fully fit Tomlin playing off Zohore, My god, even Wolvesalona would drool over the prospect. Yes, Zohore is out injured but even if he wasn't, it doesn't look as if 90 minutes of Zohore and Tomlin together would be anywhere near close to happening. I want players ( injury, form excluded ) capable of playing each and every game if needed.

I'm not sure Lee is out of shape, I just don't think he's in the physical shape that NW wants in his players. He's clearly not an athlete and never will be, but he's capable of playing football of the kind that Le Tissier and Whitts have played their whole careers.

It was clear when NW no longer valued Whitts contributions that he didn't want this type of player in his first team, but him offering Whitts an extension showed that he did understand what he could bring in certain situations. Lee is the Whitts replacement basically.

[dembethewarrior]

I'm glad you've been imbibing the Christmas spirit.

Had a fiery intro to the place. I'm myself now.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

Fair enough he's not match fit but he should be physically fit. Built more like a Sunday league pub footballer. No excuse. Needs to be more professional. Gets paid enough.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

I'm not sure Lee is out of shape, I just don't think he's in the physical shape that NW wants in his players. He's clearly not an athlete and never will be, but he's capable of playing football of the kind that Le Tissier and Whitts have played their whole careers.

It was clear when NW no longer valued Whitts contributions that he didn't want this type of player in his first team, but him offering Whitts an extension showed that he did understand what he could bring in certain situations. Lee is the Whitts replacement basically.

Whitts was on the decline though; not a number 10 nor a ball winning central midfielder, essential to Warnock's formations. Tomlin was bought to be an integral part of the side, number 10 providing that creative spark.

Tomlin hasn't featured for most of the season, playing minor cameos. Don't get me wrong, I fully agree he's capable of changing games for us. What I'm saying is that right now, he's not able to routinely play 90 minutes and for me that's on the player. Nice turn, nice run then gasping for breath.

Tomlin in the past referred to having "big ribs". We've heard his head was all over the place with the court case, community service etc - the reality is it's coming up to halfway through the season and he still does not appear to be physically capable of playing 90 minutes on a regular basis. I've zero doubt his fitness/match fitness is the number one issue behind that. Again, if you're a professional footballer then you can have one of two attitudes; either expect the club to sort your fitness out or work your bollocks off to improve your cardio to get near where it needs to be.

Yes, Tomlin can change a game in an instant even with 15 minute cameos. My point is why should we expect someone with his skill to be on the bench? He would have far, far more impact playing most games for the full 90. The fact he cannot do so, for me, is all on him.

[jamieccfc]

Whitts was on the decline though; not a number 10 nor a ball winning central midfielder, essential to Warnock's formations. Tomlin was bought to be an integral part of the side, number 10 providing that creative spark.

Tomlin hasn't featured for most of the season, playing minor cameos. Don't get me wrong, I fully agree he's capable of changing games for us. What I'm saying is that right now, he's not able to routinely play 90 minutes and for me that's on the player. Nice turn, nice run then gasping for breath.

Tomlin in the past referred to having "big ribs". We've heard his head was all over the place with the court case, community service etc - the reality is it's coming up to halfway through the season and he still does not appear to be physically capable of playing 90 minutes on a regular basis. I've zero doubt his fitness/match fitness is the number one issue behind that. Again, if you're a professional footballer then you can have one of two attitudes; either expect the club to sort your fitness out or work your bollocks off to improve your cardio to get near where it needs to be.

Yes, Tomlin can change a game in an instant even with 15 minute cameos. My point is why should we expect someone with his skill to be on the bench? He would have far, far more impact playing most games for the full 90. The fact he cannot do so, for me, is all on him.

To be fair if he was always fit and had the attitude and desire to play at the top do you think he would be playing for us?

[ccfc_is_my_life]

To be fair if he was always fit and had the attitude and desire to play at the top do you think he would be playing for us?

Why not? Having all three of those qualities doesn't in itself mean you rise to the top.

There are things entirely within Tomlin's control - his cardio being one of those things. We have an entire squad of players willing to run all game for Warnock. Tomlin is a player with great skill, having to be used in cameos due to being unable to play a full game at this point, midway through a season. Why should fans accept that and more importantly why should the player himself accept that?

If Tomlin can give more than 10 minute bursts then Zohore and he will boss this league easily.

[dembethewarrior]

Tomlins style of play isn't built on running down defenders and chasing the ball back into midfield the way Warnock likes his players to.

He's there to flick on balls like he did for Bogle against Ipswich.

If we can't afford that luxury in the team then he doesn't play.

But people expecting him to all of a sudden run around with the energy of No Farah are likely to be disappointed.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Nobody is saying he should be running marathons.

People have the reasonable expectation that Tomlin shouldn't be knackered after a single burst which is what's been happening.

Warnock himself acknowledges it's an issue.

"But if you get a fit Lee Tomlin, he’d get in any team in the country, let alone in the Championship. But we don’t have that. We have a player who either starts and plays an hour, or we bring him on for half an hour, usually."

I doubt Warnock expects him to run marathons like Mo Farah - but he's said Tomlin hasn't been fit for the role he wants him to play in the side.

We need that number 10 able to provide something different as teams will start to park the bus. We need Tomlin match fit during / post Christmas to be able to ply 90 minutes, not the odd cameo here and there.

[dembethewarrior]

Usually gets 10 minutes.

Only got a start as he's been forced to play..and when he did he put in the effort until he left the pitch.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

And why does he usually get 10 minutes? That's the question.

Nobody has questioned his effort when on the pitch. The issue has been he's getting blown up as his cardio isn't where it needs to be.

Warnock would love, love, love Tomlin putting in 90 minutes each and every game.

[Bobby Dandruff]

I get the feeling he's a fat bastard tbh, that pathetic "big ribs" comment...

He's a professional footballer, earning a professional footballers wage. Onus is on him to manage his weight and fitness, he's not a bloody child.

Nobody is saying he has to have the greatest cardio in the history of football but when the view of the staff of the club is that he can't at this point manage 90 minutes it's absolutely pathetic.

All I hear is excuse after excuse... oh community service. That stops him using an exercise bike after finishing the service? If you've got the drive to want to play 90 minutes each and every game, then you work your bollocks off to achieve it.

Yes, I have to agree with you - it does all seem very strange. It IS his job to be fit after all......

[Bobby Dandruff]

I've absolutely zero doubt he has class, is able to turn a game at this level. He's one of the most skillful players we have. No argument on that score from me.

What I question is his professionalism. It's for me inexcusable that a professional footballer at this level midway through a season is as out of shape as Tomlin has clearly been.

Le Tissier was certainly never a world class athlete; didn't need to be but he played 90 minutes every week. He wasn't used as a bit part player.

A fully fit Tomlin playing off Zohore, My god, even Wolvesalona would drool over the prospect. Yes, Zohore is out injured but even if he wasn't, it doesn't look as if 90 minutes of Zohore and Tomlin together would be anywhere near close to happening. I want players ( injury, form excluded ) capable of playing each and every game if needed.

I have to agree with that. Hardly an unreasonable expectation of a professional athlete!

[Nick]

I have to agree with that. Hardly an unreasonable expectation of a professional athlete!

Tomlin needs to understand that is is now in the last chance saloon to make it at this level. He is close to thirty, he has been In trouble an£ came close to imprisonment, he is clearly not fit to last 90 minutes at Championship level, he is clearly a player Warnock wanted playing for him.

Unfortunately, he has yet to raise his game like Warnock other signings have.

If he wants a career 5hat his undoubted talents deserve, now is the time to knuckle down, get fit, make himself undroppable or otherwise accep5 it’s league 1 or 2 at best for @ talented waster.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

Tomlin needs to understand that is is now in the last chance saloon to make it at this level. He is close to thirty, he has been In trouble an£ came close to imprisonment, he is clearly not fit to last 90 minutes at Championship level, he is clearly a player Warnock wanted playing for him.

Unfortunately, he has yet to raise his game like Warnock other signings have.

If he wants a career 5hat his undoubted talents deserve, now is the time to knuckle down, get fit, make himself undroppable or otherwise accep5 it’s league 1 or 2 at best for @ talented waster.

If there's a manager who can get the best out of him, it's Warnock.

Lesser managers would have thrown him into the starting lineup from day one; Warnock's showed he's got to earn his place. The rest is up to Tomlin.

[Nick]

If there's a manager who can get the best out of him, it's Warnock.

Lesser managers would have thrown him into the starting lineup from day one; Warnock's showed he's got to earn his place. The rest is up to Tomlin.

I really, really hope he can come through. He has his demons to fight though.

[J R Hartley]

Tomlins style of play isn't built on running down defenders and chasing the ball back into midfield the way Warnock likes his players to.

He's there to flick on balls like he did for Bogle against Ipswich.

If we can't afford that luxury in the team then he doesn't play.

But people expecting him to all of a sudden run around with the energy of No Farah are likely to be disappointed.

It was the same with Whitts. If he could run about and tackle like Gunnarson then he wouldn’t have spent his career in the Championship.
Same with Tomlin. If he didn’t have his flaws he wouldn’t be playing in the championship with his undoubted technical ability.
There are very few players who’ve got the lot. They tend too be top class and much sought after.

[J R Hartley]

An exercise bike ffs. That doesn’t make you match fit. Completely different kind of fitness.
Matches will make him match fit. He’s turned 1 point into 4 last 2 games with a piece of magic in each game. It’s time he was given a run in the side, even if he’s pulled off after an hour. It’s got to be better than playing him for 5-10 minutes when we need an equaliser as most of his cameos have been.

[NYCBlue]

I thought it was the other way around and Beckenbauer was told to man-mark Charlton!

I've read they were both told to mark each other.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

An exercise bike ffs. That doesn’t make you match fit. Completely different kind of fitness.
Matches will make him match fit. He’s turned 1 point into 4 last 2 games with a piece of magic in each game. It’s time he was given a run in the side, even if he’s pulled off after an hour. It’s got to be better than playing him for 5-10 minutes when we need an equaliser as most of his cameos have been.

His cardio is questionable, that's undeniable.

Warnock sees him every day in training. Do you seriously think that he'd deliberately not start Tomlin every game with no valid reason.

[J R Hartley]

His cardio is questionable, that's undeniable.

Warnock sees him every day in training. Do you seriously think that he'd deliberately not start Tomlin every game with no valid reason.

And do you think he would let him get away with being lazy? He wouldn’t be anywhere near the bench, let alone the team if he wasn’t putting any effort in.

Warnock doesn’t pull any punches. If Tomlin was taking the piss we’d know about it.