Racially Divided Bradford ‘Heading for Disaster'

[Vimto]

It worries me. I am very different to my parents and I am certain that young Muslims are probably very different to their parents. The idea that when a group move to the UK their traits and characteristics remain generation after generation just isn't believable to me.

Common sense observation.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I used to live and work in Bradford , I worked in a housing advice centre in the middle of manningham , the city's main Pakistani Muslim area

Never once had any hassle off any Muslims but go into Bradford on a Saturday night and it was rough , full of white townies


I dont have much time for any religion , including Islam but as I say they never gave me any hassle

What's happened in Bradford is that Bradford city council has housed mostly white people on the big estates like buttershaw and Canterbury and the Pakistani community live in the inner city areas like manningham , toller lane , girlington , along with students , it's like that in Cathay's in Cardiff, the most ethnically diverse ward in Wales

Immigration happens , places change , it's the way of the world

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It worries me. I am very different to my parents and I am certain that young Muslims are probably very different to their parents. The idea that when a group move to the UK their traits and characteristics remain generation after generation just isn't believable to me.

While it is true that younger generation does tend loosen the cultural ties of their parents and grandparents the concept of apostasy is present in Islam. It will be fascinating to see how the struggle between religion and rationality play out in the long term.
Funnily enough, a Christian fundamentalist friend of mine (a wonderful chap and who really aspires to the better concepts expressed in his religion) has been rocked by the fact that his son, who is studying engineering and science, has rejected Christianity by applying the same sort of analysis to religion as he does to his studies.
As you most of you know, I have no time for religion but, it has to be said, Islam does seem to have a tighter control over its adherents that modern-day Christianity - you only need to visit a few countries in the Middle East to experience that.
Ironical really: the former seems to look more absurd as time goes on and the fact that the latter bows down to constant re-interpretation to survive say it all.
Religion is bunk but let's not demonise the gullible, the non-analytical and easily indoctrinated anywhere in the world as having evil DNA. The world's major religions are very new to the planet and homo sapiens supposed lived for at least 100,000 years (possibly 200,000 years) before those belief systems came about - although we know that, as is usual in the world of folklore, many earlier religions morph into later religions.
I would love to ask any believer what he or she thinks what they would have believed in 5,000 years ago and born in a different location......
If mankind doesn't realise that there is something more important out there than religious schisms and selfish interests we are going to hell (irony alert) in a hand cart.
End of sermon.

[CardiffIrish2]

While it is true that younger generation does tend loosen the cultural ties of their parents and grandparents the concept of apostasy is present in Islam. It will be fascinating to see how the struggle between religion and rationality play out in the long term.
Funnily enough, a Christian fundamentalist friend of mine (a wonderful chap and who really aspires to the better concepts expressed in his religion) has been rocked by the fact that his son, who is studying engineering and science, has rejected Christianity by applying the same sort of analysis to religion as he does to his studies.
As you most of you know, I have no time for religion but, it has to be said, Islam does seem to have a tighter control over its adherents that modern-day Christianity - you only need to visit a few countries in the Middle East to experience that.
Ironical really: the former seems to look more absurd as time goes on and the fact that the latter bows down to constant re-interpretation to survive say it all.
Religion is bunk but let's not demonise the gullible, the non-analytical and easily indoctrinated anywhere in the world as having evil DNA. The world's major religions are very new to the planet and homo sapiens supposed lived for at least 100,000 years (possibly 200,000 years) before those belief systems came about - although we know that, as is usual in the world of folklore, many earlier religions morph into later religions.
I would love to ask any believer what he or she thinks what they would have believed in 5,000 years ago and born in a different location......
If mankind doesn't realise that there is something more important out there than religious schisms and selfish interests we are going to hell (irony alert) in a hand cart.
End of sermon.

As a Catholic you’re right. 5000 years ago I probably wouldn’t have believed as you say.
It probably is all nonsense but something keeps me attending the service that I can’t possibly logically rationalise.
Like your friend I like to think I adhere to the best concepts of it 👍

[Taunton Blue Genie]

As a Catholic you’re right. 5000 years ago I probably wouldn’t have believed as you say.
It probably is all nonsense but something keeps me attending the service that I can’t possibly logically rationalise.
Like your friend I like to think I adhere to the best concepts of it ��

Religions are dependent on children being indoctrinated as belief systems instilled at an early age become part of one's mental framework and something that can be very difficult to eschew. Altruism is pan-global and is not dependent on believing in one or many of the thousands of deities that have been believed in over the millennia. I have many friends who are Catholic and their mindset reflects your own.

[BlueWales]

Severncity, what is it that makes people like Blue Wales and Silly Eric so angry when we discuss Muslim immigration? Given your background in the anti-fascist movement you probably have more insight than most of us into their motivation and mindset. They never come out openly and say Muslim immigration is good because of X or Y. They just seem to hate us for mentioning the topic.

I personally think they are elitists who despise ordinary working people. They hate the idea that ordinary people should have a say in who should or should not be allowed to live in their country. To them ordinary people are ignorant, mean-minded and insular. In their minds democracy is all about letting educated and liberal minded people decide what is best for us. But this liberal elite has created a society which suits them but they have screwed it up for everyone else.

You have to laugh , calling a bloke born in Tredegar an " elitist ".

I just hate shit stirring racists having lived and worked in London for best part of 40 years.

I haven't had any power to say what is best for anyone in my life but I know that the UK once
had a reputation for fairness and being a safe haven which is being eroded by the racists with
19th century values who post on here.

That's why I rarely post these days.

[Eric Cartman]

You have to laugh , calling a bloke born in Tredegar an " elitist ".

I just hate shit stirring racists having lived and worked in London for best part of 40 years.

I haven't had any power to say what is best for anyone in my life but I know that the UK once
had a reputation for fairness and being a safe haven which is being eroded by the racists with
19th century values who post on here.

That's why I rarely post these days.

I am definitely an elitist, so deep undercover that I maintain my near minimum wage job to stop people figuring me out.

[David Vincent]

You have to laugh , calling a bloke born in Tredegar an " elitist ".

I just hate shit stirring racists having lived and worked in London for best part of 40 years.

I haven't had any power to say what is best for anyone in my life but I know that the UK once
had a reputation for fairness and being a safe haven which is being eroded by the racists with
19th century values who post on here.

That's why I rarely post these days.

Rarely post ! You've posted 9,498 times.

You can be an elitist no matter where you were born. Roy Jenkins was an elitist par excellence and he was born in Abersychan. Your insult-ridden rant shows you despise those citizens who think they should have some say about who should live in their country. It is supposed to be their country as well as yours. If people think immigration will reduce their quality of life by reducing wages, worsening working conditions and worsening health care then why shouldn't they be allowed to complain.

[Eric Cartman]

Rarely post ! You've posted 9,498 times.

You can be an elitist no matter where you were born. Roy Jenkins was an elitist par excellence and he was born in Abersychan. Your insult-ridden rant shows you despise those citizens who think they should have some say about who should live in their country. It is supposed to be their country as well as yours. If people think immigration will reduce their quality of life by reducing wages, worsening working conditions and worsening health care then why shouldn't they be allowed to complain.

Who said they aren't allowed to complain? I personally only take issue with these unqualified 'predictions' you make in every thread of this type.

[David Vincent]

Who said they aren't allowed to complain? I personally only take issue with these unqualified 'predictions' you make in every thread of this type.

If complaints about immigration "distress" someone then that is seen as hate speech and you can go to prison. On top of legal pressure not to complain you also have aggression and insults from hypocrites like Blue Wales who say they "hate" people who promote what they call hate speech.

[Eric Cartman]

If complaints about immigration "distress" someone then that is seen as hate speech and you can go to prison. On top of legal pressure not to complain you also have aggression and insults from hypocrites like Blue Wales who say they "hate" people who promote what they call hate speech.

Well I am surprised every journalist at the mail, express and sun aren't in jail then.