Racially Divided Bradford ‘Heading for Disaster'

[David Vincent]

Indeed it will be interesting.

It takes generations, like Northern Ireland is still doing - etc, but it is surely very possible indeed that the majority of young Muslims will become more 'westernised' more 'naturalised' and , while keeping their Muslim identity, less fervently devout.

Vimto I am astonished to see you return to the fray. Yesterday you retired wounded ( I thought fatally) after being caught out telling some ridiculous porkies.

I have noticed that assuming the opposite of whatever claim you make inevitably leads to the truth. Your latest post does not disappoint. All the evidence seems to suggest that the younger generations of Muslims are more radicalised and less "westernised" than the earlier ones. In the 1970s you never saw Muslim women impersonating pillar boxes.

[Organ Morgan.]

Childless and dual nationality people will have less concern about the future of a country than those who have children and grandchildren to worry about. I would guess that some of the most head in the sand or pro-muslim posters on here are childless.

Let's say, for example, that the Muslims will be a majority in a hundred years. Many on here would say "That is so far off that we don't have to worry about it" or they might even say that would be a good thing. It wouldn't bother them. But if someone had said to my grandparents in 1918 the same thing they would have been horrified to hear that their grandchildren would be living in a Muslim controlled country and would be subject to the corruption, persecution of religious minorities and subjugation of women you see in all Muslim countries.

Why are people today not bothered that future generations will be living under Islamic laws? Either it will not affect them because they are childless or they have been brainwashed by the BBC and other media controlled by our elite class to see Islamic culture as something to be admired. Anyone who thinks otherwise is persecuted by our politicised police force.

I gave quite a few reasons in an earlier post. So many people are consumed with, um, consuming. The immediate is what's important, and that means having access to several hundred TV channels and to be constantly amused both at home and on the move by gazing at a screen of some description.

[Vimto]

Vimto I am astonished to see you return to the fray. Yesterday you retired wounded ( I thought fatally) after being caught out telling some ridiculous porkies.

I have noticed that assuming the opposite of whatever claim you make inevitably leads to the truth. Your latest post does not disappoint. All the evidence seems to suggest that the younger generations of Muslims are more radicalised and less "westernised" than the earlier ones. In the 1970s you never saw Muslim women impersonating pillar boxes.

Fair play, you struggle on, cant fault that

[Organ Morgan.]

Must agree with the wrinkled one. Vimto, you've taken a kicking in this thread.

[Vimto]

Must agree with the wrinkled one. Vimto, you've taken a kicking in this thread.

I disagree entirely! DV completely misinterpreted what I said in the first place, but ran and ran with it, unable to derail.

[Eric Cartman]

Childless and dual nationality people will have less concern about the future of a country than those who have children and grandchildren to worry about. I would guess that some of the most head in the sand or pro-muslim posters on here are childless.

Let's say, for example, that the Muslims will be a majority in a hundred years. Many on here would say "That is so far off that we don't have to worry about it" or they might even say that would be a good thing. It wouldn't bother them. But if someone had said to my grandparents in 1918 the same thing they would have been horrified to hear that their grandchildren would be living in a Muslim controlled country and would be subject to the corruption, persecution of religious minorities and subjugation of women you see in all Muslim countries.

Why are people today not bothered that future generations will be living under Islamic laws? Either it will not affect them because they are childless or they have been brainwashed by the BBC and other media controlled by our elite class to see Islamic culture as something to be admired. Anyone who thinks otherwise is persecuted by our politicised police force.

David would you mind checking your crystal ball to see if we go up this year?

[Eric Cartman]

I gave quite a few reasons in an earlier post. So many people are consumed with, um, consuming. The immediate is what's important, and that means having access to several hundred TV channels and to be constantly amused both at home and on the move by gazing at a screen of some description.

Replying to his question before he even asked it, spooky, almost like you one person with two accounts.

[Eric Cartman]

Vimto I am astonished to see you return to the fray. Yesterday you retired wounded ( I thought fatally) after being caught out telling some ridiculous porkies.

I have noticed that assuming the opposite of whatever claim you make inevitably leads to the truth. Your latest post does not disappoint. All the evidence seems to suggest that the younger generations of Muslims are more radicalised and less "westernised" than the earlier ones. In the 1970s you never saw Muslim women impersonating pillar boxes.

That is because you and your mates were in your 40's then and would have given them a right good kicking.

[Eric Cartman]

It will be interesting to see how much 'leakage' there will in respect of such communities as their youth may eschew the religion that their grandparents have traditionally adhered to.

Well none apparently. Young Muslims are more extreme and more radical than their parents. Which is strange really because the establishment loves them and as you can see below the media is trying to convince us to love Muslims.

everyone loves Muslims.jpg

Well, okay, that stuff is just headlines. If they grow tired of hearing about how, despite just being some kid doing their A-Levels, they are ruining Britain, they can log in to their local football club message board and read much of the same being spouted by men old enough to know better.

This thread about integration of cultures within society (a genuine concern) has taken a familiar turn.

[CardiffIrish2]

Well none apparently. Young Muslims are more extreme and more radical than their parents. Which is strange really because the establishment loves them and as you can see below the media is trying to convince us to love Muslims.

everyone loves Muslims.jpg

Well, okay, that stuff is just headlines. If they grow tired of hearing about how, despite just being some kid doing their A-Levels, they are ruining Britain, they can log in to their local football club message board and read much of the same being spouted by men old enough to know better.

This thread about integration of cultures within society (a genuine concern) has taken a familiar turn.

I love it when people refer to the media as establishment when it doesn’t suit their beliefs.

Mr DV says the media are brainwashing us to believe Islam is something to be admired.

Well there’s the two most popular newspapers suggesting this isn’t the case .

[Organ Morgan.]

Replying to his question before he even asked it, spooky, almost like you one person with two accounts.

It's not the first time I've been accused of being Dai. It's not true but I take it as a compliment. It's not relevant but some years back a Moderator, who remains a regular poster, was totally (and I mean totally) adamant that I doubled as another. It proved annoying after initial amusement because I knew he could see the IP address of every contribution made. He eventually made a retraction on realising it was an impossibility.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Here is the data from the 2011 census listing religion by local authority. I can add Rotherham, Derby, Nottingham, Walsall, Peterborough, Liverpool, Stoke-on-Trent, Middlesbrough, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Bristol, Slough, Reading, Crawley, Woking and Newport to the list of places with significant Muslim ghettoes.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/peo...m77-290705.xls

Are you confusing populations with ghettoes? I live in the Reading area which you quote. The census information suggests a 7pc Muslim presence in the unitary authority. I am aware of several areas of the town that traditionally are the assimilation points for immigrants and have a greater ethnic and religious mix (Muslims, West Indians, Hindus, Eastern Europeans and Irish for example) but none of these areas have a ghetto (as you describe it) where one group dominates and others fear to tread.

[Eric Cartman]

It's not the first time I've been accused of being Dai. It's not true but I take it as a compliment. It's not relevant but some years back a Moderator, who remains a regular poster, was totally (and I mean totally) adamant that I doubled as another. It proved annoying after initial amusement because I knew he could see the IP address of every contribution made. He eventually made a retraction on realising it was an impossibility.

I only said it because I saw someone say it before

[David Vincent]

Well none apparently. Young Muslims are more extreme and more radical than their parents. Which is strange really because the establishment loves them and as you can see below the media is trying to convince us to love Muslims.

Well, okay, that stuff is just headlines. If they grow tired of hearing about how, despite just being some kid doing their A-Levels, they are ruining Britain, they can log in to their local football club message board and read much of the same being spouted by men old enough to know better.

This thread about integration of cultures within society (a genuine concern) has taken a familiar turn.

How could you confuse me with Organ Morgan. He is a very sly and effeminate Quintin Crisp lookalike whereas I am the epitome of manliness. I'm a bit like Charlton Heston playing Moses, but more muscular and less Jewish.

What, you ask, would a young Muslim Cardiff fan think if he read our comments. Well I think most Muslims know that a lot of older people don't like their religion or culture. He wouldn't be shocked or surprised. We also know that many or most Muslims don't like our culture. If the argument is that Muslims will be in the majority eventually how would your young Muslim Cardiff fan reply? He could say Muslims will never be in the majority. He could say that Muslims will be in the majority but everyone will be treated fairly. Or, more likely, he could say that he finds the question offensive and we should not be allowed to talk about it. That is the position taken by our elite. Why do you think they are so keen to end the census?

[cyril evans awaydays]

How could you confuse me with Organ Morgan. He is a very sly and effeminate Quintin Crisp lookalike whereas I am the epitome of manliness. I'm a bit like Charlton Heston playing Moses, but more muscular and less Jewish.

What, you ask, would a young Muslim Cardiff fan think if he read our comments. Well I think most Muslims know that a lot of older people don't like their religion or culture. He wouldn't be shocked or surprised. We also know that many or most Muslims don't like our culture. If the argument is that Muslims will be in the majority eventually how would your young Muslim Cardiff fan reply? He could say Muslims will never be in the majority. He could say that Muslims will be in the majority but everyone will be treated fairly. Or, more likely, he could say that he finds the question offensive and we should not be allowed to talk about it. That is the position taken by our elite. Why do you think they are so keen to end the census?

Since the 1961 census the percentage of catholics in Northern Ireland has increased from a base of 35% to 45% fifty years later in the 2011 census for a population of around 2 million. It is obviously a great cause of concern in the Protestant community when the demographic tipping point arises. Given that there was a Muslim footprint of just under 5% in England and Wales in the last census when do you predict the Muslim majority you speak of will manifest itself?

[Organ Morgan.]

I have a grudging regard for how our lords and masters have transformed Britain into a hopelessly divided indebted malaise while simultaneously constructing a surveillance state the like of which Kim Jong-Un must be envious of.

I believe the most brilliant and insidious aspect hasn't been the importation of hordes of overwhelmingly useless Third Worlders, especially those from Pakistan and Bangladesh, but how they've smashed the white working class who've been reduced to scrambling for zero hour contract jobs and a lifetime of renting. They've long since created the conditions where the former family structure was so deviously altered by replacing a father as the household's breadwinner with that of the state in the form of benefit payments.

[lardy]

Don't know why people think DV and organ might be the same guy. Completely different styles.

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php...=1#post4689277

[severncity]

Delete

[severncity]

Are you confusing populations with ghettoes? I live in the Reading area which you quote. The census information suggests a 7pc Muslim presence in the unitary authority. I am aware of several areas of the town that traditionally are the assimilation points for immigrants and have a greater ethnic and religious mix (Muslims, West Indians, Hindus, Eastern Europeans and Irish for example) but none of these areas have a ghetto (as you describe it) where one group dominates and others fear to tread.

Are you confusing the term “ghetto” with some other term? A ghetto is “a part of a city, especially a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups.” Is there a part of Reading which is like this? In Cardiff south east Riverside is a Muslim ghetto but it isn’t a no-go zone. I was referring to towns and cities which have a clearly defined Muslim area. Even Skipton, an affluent market town in North Yorkshire, has such a neighbourhood. It is only two or three streets of terraced houses but the topography means that it is clearly defined, and demographically speaking it is inhabited almost exclusively by Pakistani Muslims.

Oh, I can also add Burnley, Nelson and Coventry to the list. Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims integrate less than any other group. I spoke to my brother and to my sister in law (who live in inner city Bradford) last night and they told me that one of their eleven year old daughter’s friends is a Pakistani girl with “westernised” parents who both have well-paid professional jobs. This girl does socialise with the white girls after school but was absent from a recent sleepover as her parents would not permit her do stay overnight.

[Auntie Andy]

Are you confusing the term “ghetto” with some other term? A ghetto is “a part of a city, especially a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups.” Is there a part of Reading which is like this? In Cardiff south east Riverside is a Muslim ghetto but it isn’t a no-go zone. I was referring to towns and cities which have a clearly defined Muslim area. Even Skipton, an affluent market town in North Yorkshire, has such a neighbourhood. It is only two or three streets of terraced houses but the topography means that it is clearly defined, and demographically speaking it is inhabited almost exclusively by Pakistani Muslims.



Oh, I can also add Burnley, Nelson and Coventry to the list. Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims integrate less than any other group. I spoke to my brother and to my sister in law (who live in inner city Bradford) last night and they told me that one of their eleven year old daughter’s friends is a Pakistani girl with “westernised” parents who both have well-paid professional jobs. This girl does socialise with the white girls after school but was absent from a recent sleepover as her parents would not permit her do stay overnight.

So parents didn’t allow their 11 year old daughter to attend a sleep over and you are using this as an example to back up your arguments? Very strange. Perhaps they didn’t want their 11 year old daughter sleeping out overnight, some parents don’t.

Would you call areas populated by Chinese or other nationalities ghettos or just those populated by Muslims?

[severncity]

So parents didn’t allow their 11 year old daughter to attend a sleep over and you are using this as an example to back up your arguments? Very strange. Perhaps they didn’t want their 11 year old daughter sleeping out overnight, some parents don’t.

Would you call areas populated by Chinese or other nationalities ghettos or just those populated by Muslims?

I’m not sure whether you’ve read the whole thread but I’d mentioned that my brother and his family live in Bradford and that I lived there for ten years. I had many Asian friends and a few girlfriends - which was tough due to the prejudice of many people towards mixed couples. My brother had mentioned before that the Pakistani children in his children’s two schools are discouraged from mixing with the white children and I’m sure that the reverse is true.

Of course Chinese people live in ghettos - they are called Chinatowns. But the Chinese have integrated more fully than have many Muslims. Here is an interesting article about integration and there are a plethora of similar articles if you’d care to search.

https://www.keighleyonline.co.uk/com...n-britain.html

[Auntie Andy]

I’m not sure whether you’ve read the whole thread but I’d mentioned that my brother and his family live in Bradford and that I lived there for ten years. I had many Asian friends and a few girlfriends - which was tough due to the prejudice of many people towards mixed couples. My brother had mentioned before that the Pakistani children in his children’s two schools are discouraged from mixing with the white children and I’m sure that the reverse is true.

Of course Chinese people live in ghettos - they are called Chinatowns. But the Chinese have integrated more fully than have many Muslims. Here is an interesting article about integration and there are a plethora of similar articles if you’d care to search.

https://www.keighleyonline.co.uk/com...n-britain.html

Ghetto meaning

A part of a city, especially a SLUM area, occupied by a minority group or groups.

So these people all live in slums? You come over in your posts as a racist. Is this the case?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Are you confusing the term “ghetto” with some other term? A ghetto is “a part of a city, especially a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups.” Is there a part of Reading which is like this? In Cardiff south east Riverside is a Muslim ghetto but it isn’t a no-go zone. I was referring to towns and cities which have a clearly defined Muslim area. Even Skipton, an affluent market town in North Yorkshire, has such a neighbourhood. It is only two or three streets of terraced houses but the topography means that it is clearly defined, and demographically speaking it is inhabited almost exclusively by Pakistani Muslims.

Oh, I can also add Burnley, Nelson and Coventry to the list. Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims integrate less than any other group. I spoke to my brother and to my sister in law (who live in inner city Bradford) last night and they told me that one of their eleven year old daughter’s friends is a Pakistani girl with “westernised” parents who both have well-paid professional jobs. This girl does socialise with the white girls after school but was absent from a recent sleepover as her parents would not permit her do stay overnight.

I understand the word and its use. As I said there are several areas of Reading that have a strong mix of ethnic and religious groups that are less affluent than the average but I am aware of none where one group dominates or would have the characteristics of a ghetto. I can understand the attraction of the term and the stigma associated with it to support an argument or viewpoint though.

How did the conversation with your Jewish brother in law go? Did you discuss the proliferation of ghettoes in the UK with him?

[severncity]

Ghetto meaning

A part of a city, especially a SLUM area, occupied by a minority group or groups.

So these people all live in slums? You come over in your posts as a racist. Is this the case?

What in the hell are you talking about? Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in the UK are the most deprived subsets of our population and they live in the worst housing in the most segregated areas. I’ve already told you that I’ve had three long term relationships with Asian women; one Chinese, one Sikh and one Indian Muslim. How can I be racist? I’m simply pointing out that the Muslim communities in the U.K. are the most segregated and ghettoised of any ethnic/religious group. I wrote my dissertation, in 1991, for my first degree on the institutionally racist nature of Bradford council’s housing policy! I was a member of the Anti-Nazi league in Bradford, for God’s sake! I’ve more recently spent twelve years teaching adult literacy to a class that was 50% Muslim women!

Look back over my posts on this thread and you will see a link to a Guardian article saying roughly what I have said. Is that article racist? For you to accuse me of being racist shows utter ignorance of what racism is and a sad disregard for what I have actually written and who I am.

Read this report and then come back to me with some informed opinion.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-con...tion-index.pdf

[severncity]

I understand the word and its use. As I said there are several areas of Reading that have a strong mix of ethnic and religious groups that are less affluent than the average but I am aware of none where one group dominates or would have the characteristics of a ghetto. I can understand the attraction of the term and the stigma associated with it to support an argument or viewpoint though.

How did the conversation with your Jewish brother in law go? Did you discuss the proliferation of ghettoes in the UK with him?

No I didn’t discuss it with my Jewish brother in law. He is an associate Dean and head of the politics department at one of England’s top universities but I will discuss it later today and get back to you with his thoughts.