Racially Divided Bradford ‘Heading for Disaster'

[CardiffIrish2]

What in the hell are you talking about? Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in the UK are the most deprived subsets of our population and they live in the worst housing in the most segregated areas. I’ve already told you that I’ve had three long term relationships with Asian women; one Chinese, one Sikh and one Indian Muslim. How can I be racist? I’m simply pointing out that the Muslim communities in the U.K. are the most segregated and ghettoised of any ethnic/religious group. I wrote my dissertation, in 1991, for my first degree on the institutionally racist nature of Bradford council’s housing policy! I was a member of the Anti-Nazi league in Bradford, for God’s sake! I’ve more recently spent twelve years teaching adult literacy to a class that was 50% Muslim women!

Look back over my posts on this thread and you will see a link to a Guardian article saying roughly what I have said. Is that article racist? For you to accuse me of being racist shows utter ignorance of what racism is and a sad disregard for what I have actually written and who I am.

Read this report and then come back to me with some informed opinion.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-con...tion-index.pdf

So as an educated man what do you think can be done to desegregate these areas? What sort of interventions of any can be done to bring communities together like Bradford?

I haven’t lived in Bradford but am aware of a high Pakistani ethnic minority. I did work in Grabgetown and Butetown for years and whilst these are areas of high ethnic diversity I didn’t see such distinct polarisation of communities.

[severncity]

So as an educated man what do you think can be done to desegregate these areas? What sort of interventions of any can be done to bring communities together like Bradford?

I haven’t lived in Bradford but am aware of a high Pakistani ethnic minority. I did work in Grabgetown and Butetown for years and whilst these are areas of high ethnic diversity I didn’t see such distinct polarisation of communities.

Well that is the big issue! Thank you for debating rather than name calling. A good analogy is the UK population in Spain. Despite sharing much in common with the Spanish; especially DNA, but also culture (similar foods, religion, languages that are partly mutually intelligible, clothes, political affiliations, music, a love of bars/clubs/alcohol) the British have, by and large, segregated into ghettoes - replete with Lineker’s Bars and the like. You cannot make people integrate if they don’t want to.

In the UK many Pakistani Muslims are from Mirpur which was a very provincial town in the 1940s - it is now one of the richest cities in Pakistan due to the money flowing back in from British Pakistanis. The natives of Mirpur were alien to the UK in all of the ways that British expatriates in Spain are not. Islam is the glue that binds them and also that dictates their culture; no alcohol, daily prayers, dress codes, halal food etc.

There was no way, ever, that the Mirpuris were going to integrate well into the UK and this is what has played out. Multiculturalism, as a model, explicitly DOES NOT promote integration: it seeks to promote minority cultures at the expense of the majority culture.

So we have our ghettoes and they will do nothing but grow. That is human nature.

[BlueWales]

Shit thread.

Racist playtime again.

Mike should issue a few bans.

[severncity]

Shit thread.

Racist playtime again.

Mike should issue a few bans.

You should be the first banned. Ill-informed and abusive, as ever.

[David Vincent]

You should be the first banned. Ill-informed and abusive, as ever.

Severncity, what is it that makes people like Blue Wales and Silly Eric so angry when we discuss Muslim immigration? Given your background in the anti-fascist movement you probably have more insight than most of us into their motivation and mindset. They never come out openly and say Muslim immigration is good because of X or Y. They just seem to hate us for mentioning the topic.

I personally think they are elitists who despise ordinary working people. They hate the idea that ordinary people should have a say in who should or should not be allowed to live in their country. To them ordinary people are ignorant, mean-minded and insular. In their minds democracy is all about letting educated and liberal minded people decide what is best for us. But this liberal elite has created a society which suits them but they have screwed it up for everyone else.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Most of us have never been personally upset by a Muslim or any immigrant but we all have enemies who were born white British Christians. I don't think any of us would take the side of our enemy against a Muslim or an immigrant. Why would we help people who have upset us or who have tried to cheat us? We hate each other more than we hate Muslims and that, in my opinion, is one reason why a Muslim takeover is inevitable. Muslims come from a dog eat dog world and they don't take it personally when a fellow Muslim tries to cheat them. They would regard someone who doesn't try to cheat them as a moron.

White Britons don't really have much in common with each other apart from skin colour. We are no longer tied by a common religion or any patriotic feelings. Today the only people who would go to war for Britain are those who like a bit of adventure and excitement. There is nothing worth dying for anyway.

Those people who think we can stop this country becoming Muslim are deluded. The wheels were set in motion long ago. There is no point worrying about it. Forget all about Bradford.

Do you have anything to back up those statements I highlighted in bold?

[severncity]

Severncity, what is it that makes people like Blue Wales and Silly Eric so angry when we discuss Muslim immigration? Given your background in the anti-fascist movement you probably have more insight than most of us into their motivation and mindset. They never come out openly and say Muslim immigration is good because of X or Y. They just seem to hate us for mentioning the topic.

I personally think they are elitists who despise ordinary working people. They hate the idea that ordinary people should have a say in who should or should not be allowed to live in their country. To them ordinary people are ignorant, mean-minded and insular. In their minds democracy is all about letting educated and liberal minded people decide what is best for us. But this liberal elite has created a society which suits them but they have screwed it up for everyone else.

There is truth in what you say about the elitist, champagne-socialist types. I also think that it is the norm now, amongst white people, to signal their virtue regarding race, ethnicity and religion. Do these people have any Muslim friends? How would they feel if their daughter, sister or granddaughter converted to Islam and wore the full veil, and was not allowed out without a chaperone? Do they have Muslim neighbours? Do they live in a predominantly Muslim neighbourhood. In 20 years of living on Severn Rd, within a minute’s Walk of a mosque, I had no problems with any devout Muslims. But I had little interaction with them either.

I was nutted in a nightclub by a Pakistani coke dealer who, it turned out, lived about 10 doors down from me. I asked him “why in the f*ck did you do that?” as the blow had no effect on me whatsoever and for the rest of my time in Canton he was very meek whenever he saw me.

[CardiffIrish2]

Severncity, what is it that makes people like Blue Wales and Silly Eric so angry when we discuss Muslim immigration? Given your background in the anti-fascist movement you probably have more insight than most of us into their motivation and mindset. They never come out openly and say Muslim immigration is good because of X or Y. They just seem to hate us for mentioning the topic.

I personally think they are elitists who despise ordinary working people. They hate the idea that ordinary people should have a say in who should or should not be allowed to live in their country. To them ordinary people are ignorant, mean-minded and insular. In their minds democracy is all about letting educated and liberal minded people decide what is best for us. But this liberal elite has created a society which suits them but they have screwed it up for everyone else.

Whilst not agreeing with a lot of Severncity’s post, I can see that as he has lived in Bradford he maybe more aware of the issues in that City then I am.

As I stated having worked in butetown Grangetown and riverside I am glad that Cardiff has avoided a hell of a lot of the polarisation that other cities have gone through.

All you’ve done is regurgitate soundbites and cliches from the alt right start up kit. What exactly in your mind is a liberal
Elite ? Do you feel marginalised then? The media thing is nonsense as the likes of the sun Mail express etc sell by the bucketload and as much of the ‘establishment’ that you say you have issue with.

[Organ Morgan.]

New off the presses today is another Breitbart UK story concerning no-go zones in London.

Delivery Drivers Reveal London ‘No-Go Zones’ Made ‘Too Dangerous to Work’ by Acid Attacks and Knife Crimes - http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017...acid-revealed/

[David Vincent]

Do you have anything to back up those statements I highlighted in bold?

The high incidence of slavery and child labour in Muslim countries are just two symptoms of a dog eat dog society. You can see from Transparency International's corruption reports that Muslims are less trustworthy in business than other groups. Look at the prison figures for Muslims in this country. They are overrepresented in prisons – especially for frauds like crash for cash.

https://www.transparency.org/newshtt...ons_index_2016

[David Vincent]

Whilst not agreeing with a lot of Severncity’s post, I can see that as he has lived in Bradford he maybe more aware of the issues in that City then I am.

As I stated having worked in butetown Grangetown and riverside I am glad that Cardiff has avoided a hell of a lot of the polarisation that other cities have gone through.

All you’ve done is regurgitate soundbites and cliches from the alt right start up kit. What exactly in your mind is a liberal
Elite ? Do you feel marginalised then? The media thing is nonsense as the likes of the sun Mail express etc sell by the bucketload and as much of the ‘establishment’ that you say you have issue with.

You seem to be saying that ordinary people who complain about Muslim immigration are not expressing their own views. They are just repeating stuff they have taken from an "alt right start up kit" whatever that is. That's just another way of saying "shut up and leave this topic to your betters".

Who are the liberal elite? They are the people who make me feel as if I am Winston Smith in 1984. Do I feel marginalised? I am so marginalised that I no longer feel as if I have anything in common with the people I see on the TV or hear on the radio. When I pick up any paper I know that I am being lied to. When it comes to any subject - the economy, Syria, Iraq, Russia, immigration, Islam - I know it is all lies. The people I talk to - mainly old people like myself - all agree that we are being fed non stop propaganda.

[David Vincent]

There is truth in what you say about the elitist, champagne-socialist types. I also think that it is the norm now, amongst white people, to signal their virtue regarding race, ethnicity and religion. Do these people have any Muslim friends? How would they feel if their daughter, sister or granddaughter converted to Islam and wore the full veil, and was not allowed out without a chaperone? Do they have Muslim neighbours? Do they live in a predominantly Muslim neighbourhood. In 20 years of living on Severn Rd, within a minute’s Walk of a mosque, I had no problems with any devout Muslims. But I had little interaction with them either.

I was nutted in a nightclub by a Pakistani coke dealer who, it turned out, lived about 10 doors down from me. I asked him “why in the f*ck did you do that?” as the blow had no effect on me whatsoever and for the rest of my time in Canton he was very meek whenever he saw me.

It's a good job that didn't happen to a lot of them on this thread I think they've got hollow heads.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

The high incidence of slavery and child labour in Muslim countries are just two symptoms of a dog eat dog society. You can see from Transparency International's corruption reports that Muslims are less trustworthy in business than other groups. Look at the prison figures for Muslims in this country. They are overrepresented in prisons – especially for frauds like crash for cash.

https://www.transparency.org/newshtt...ons_index_2016

Thanks - but that link doesn't seem to working properly.

[David Vincent]

Thanks - but that link doesn't seem to working properly.

https://www.transparency.org/news/fe...ons_index_2016

[Taunton Blue Genie]

https://www.transparency.org/news/fe...ons_index_2016

I can't see anywhere on that page that suggests that Muslims would 'regard someone who doesn't try to cheat them as a moron.'

[Eric Cartman]

Severncity, what is it that makes people like Blue Wales and Silly Eric so angry when we discuss Muslim immigration? Given your background in the anti-fascist movement you probably have more insight than most of us into their motivation and mindset. They never come out openly and say Muslim immigration is good because of X or Y. They just seem to hate us for mentioning the topic.

I personally think they are elitists who despise ordinary working people. They hate the idea that ordinary people should have a say in who should or should not be allowed to live in their country. To them ordinary people are ignorant, mean-minded and insular. In their minds democracy is all about letting educated and liberal minded people decide what is best for us. But this liberal elite has created a society which suits them but they have screwed it up for everyone else.

Am I silly Eric? Where was I angry old bean?

[David Vincent]

I can't see anywhere on that page that suggests that Muslims would 'regard someone who doesn't try to cheat them as a moron.'

I am sorry to disappoint you but the page on the internet which displays all the true statements in the universe is down at the moment. Instead let us consider what happens when you know nearly everyone in your country is corrupt and is a liar. You will assume that the person you are dealing with is going to cheat you.

This is an interesting document about how Arabs lie without feeling any guilt :

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingr...0000608408.pdf

[David Vincent]

Am I silly Eric? Where was I angry old bean?

Maybe I've got you mixed up with someone else, but whenever I see your name I expect some angry retort.

[Vimto]

I am sorry to disappoint you but the page on the internet which displays all the true statements in the universe is down at the moment. Instead let us consider what happens when you know nearly everyone in your country is corrupt and is a liar. You will assume that the person you are dealing with is going to cheat you.

This is an interesting document about how Arabs lie without feeling any guilt :

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingr...0000608408.pdf

"face" is very important in many cultures. What is your point?

[severncity]

To be fair to Eric he is an open minded but passionate proponent of "progressive" politics. Not a knee-jerk SJW at all

[David Vincent]

"face" is very important in many cultures. What is your point?

It's not about "face" it is about the fact that they will lie without feeling any guilt. Wait a sec, that reminds me of someone. Nevermind, let bygones be bygones. If someone lies without compunction they will not integrate well into a culture based on trust. In the western world we assume the people we are doing business with are telling the truth. With Muslims the truth is a moving target. The truth is whatever suits their objective. You can testimony to this all over the net. This is post and the comments are typical :

https://www.blueabaya.com/2011/12/wh...fat-liars.html

[Eric Cartman]

To be fair to Eric he is an open minded but passionate proponent of "progressive" politics. Not a knee-jerk SJW at all

Fanks

[Vimto]

It's not about "face" it is about the fact that they will lie without feeling any guilt. Wait a sec, that reminds me of someone. Nevermind, let bygones be bygones. If someone lies without compunction they will not integrate well into a culture based on trust. In the western world we assume the people we are doing business with are telling the truth. With Muslims the truth is a moving target. The truth is whatever suits their objective. You can testimony to this all over the net. This is post and the comments are typical :

https://www.blueabaya.com/2011/12/wh...fat-liars.html

What a splendid generalisation. I wouldn't be surprised if it, and its 'source', fits well with your long-term, and long known racist views.

That URL is funny - 'Big fat liars'
Sounds like Primary School stuff eh?!

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I am sorry to disappoint you but the page on the internet which displays all the true statements in the universe is down at the moment. Instead let us consider what happens when you know nearly everyone in your country is corrupt and is a liar. You will assume that the person you are dealing with is going to cheat you.

This is an interesting document about how Arabs lie without feeling any guilt :

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingr...0000608408.pdf

So Muslims regard someone who doesn't try to cheat them as a moron and Arabs lie without feeling any guilt. I shall keep my eye open for any other pearls of wisdom that generalise so perjoratively about whole populations and ethnic groups.

[Eric Cartman]

So Muslims regard someone who doesn't try to cheat them as a moron and Arabs lie without feeling any guilt. I shall keep my eye open for any other pearls of wisdom that generalise so perjoratively about whole populations and ethnic groups.

It worries me. I am very different to my parents and I am certain that young Muslims are probably very different to their parents. The idea that when a group move to the UK their traits and characteristics remain generation after generation just isn't believable to me.