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Thread: Carillion oh verge of collapse

  1. #61

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    Why not read the article and you may find out for yourself - or just send an email and ask them directly yourself foi@cardiff.gov.uk

    Im sure you can understand this though -
    "Staff sickness absences have cost Cardiff council £134m in less than a decade with tens of thousands of days lost to illness every year.

    Figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act show the annual cost of staff sick days rose from £15.6m in 2007-8 to a high of £18.2m in 2012-13.

    Since then the numbers have been falling and in 2015-16 – the most recent data available – the cost was £10.4m.

    The highest number of days of sickness absence in a single year was in 2007-08, when 163,509 days were lost.

    Over the nine years from 2007-08 to 2015-16 a total of 1.22m days were lost at a total cost to taxpayers of exactly £134m."

    This has nothing to do re Carillion though - just gives you an idea of the mindset of a public sector workforce - that was in place when worked in the Council and looks like it is still there. It's not until such a mindset is got rid of that Govt building will ever come back into being the public sector again - in my opinion - and it seems the previous Labour and Conservative Govts feel the same way.

    Carillion it seems was the best halfway house - uk company being given uk building contracts - but even then it was fecked up by greed and mis management. If the Govt had given Carillion workers - people would be demanding british jobs for british workers in british companies, which is what happened - and now people are complaining that the Govt was awarding those contracts in the first place!!!!
    No it is gives me an idea of how you will use a statistic to support your argument without even knowing how it was calculated or what it means, which in my opinion makes it pretty tricky to take anything you type seriously.

    Also "Well, the 70's" is not a valid argument against introducing public sector involvement in industries where it isn't currently the status quo.

    Your bias has become clear and your desperation to be right even clearer, may I advise that you go to a hospital, go to your local social care department, go to the fire station or your local school. What I think you will find there is a load of people getting on with their jobs under difficult circumstances. Or maybe you are right and you will find a load of people outside on strike because that is just what public sector workers do!

  2. #62

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    No it is gives me an idea of how you will use a statistic to support your argument without even knowing how it was calculated or what it means, which in my opinion makes it pretty tricky to take anything you type seriously.

    Also "Well, the 70's" is not a valid argument against introducing public sector involvement in industries where it isn't currently the status quo.

    Your bias has become clear and your desperation to be right even clearer, may I advise that you go to a hospital, go to your local social care department, go to the fire station or your local school. What I think you will find there is a load of people getting on with their jobs under difficult circumstances. Or maybe you are right and you will find a load of people outside on strike because that is just what public sector workers do!
    I dont think youve been following the thread old chap, I was giving you my recollection of the 70's and life in the council, this was then backed by a FOI report - that showed you re the level of sickness at the council was sky high etc.
    This has changed over the years in the private sector - but it seems little has changed at the council.

    Eric at the end of the day it is merely my recollection of the facts as pertinent to me. Your bias (or rather your opinion as you would call it) maybe the truth as you see it.

    Did you say you work for a council ? - how long for ?

    ps - we all have difficult jobs, we all have bills to pay, and we all want value for money

    Have a great weekend - and dont worry about what I think.

  3. #63

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    I guess I need to make it big for you

    just gives you an idea of the mindset of a public sector workforce


    Do you see what is wrong with saying that? You based this on a few anecdotes from the 70's and some statistics you don't understand from one city council.

    It is insulting.

  4. #64

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I guess I need to make it big for you

    just gives you an idea of the mindset of a public sector workforce


    Do you see what is wrong with saying that? You based this on a few anecdotes from the 70's and some statistics you don't understand from one city council.

    It is insulting.
    wow #snowflake - you trigger so easily :-


    Employment type

    public sector workers (2.9% versus 1.7% for private sector workers)
    employees (2.1% versus 1.4% for self-employed)
    workers in organisations with 500 and over employees (2.5% versus 1.6% for organisations with fewer than 25 employees)
    workers in caring, leisure, other service, and elementary occupations (2.7% versus 1.1% for managers and professionals)
    part-time workers (2.6% versus 1.9% for full-time workers)


    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentand...ourmarket/2016

    Section 5

    Also maybe worth a read :-
    https://democratic.bridgend.gov.uk/d...A%20report.pdf

    Survey of 20 councils in Wales:-
    "Background
    Managing levels of sickness absence is important for every organisation
    because a healthy workforce is a productive workforce. Data shows that
    sickness absence rates are higher in the public sector than the private sector
    and there appear to be a number of factors which may be driving this,
    including differences in human resources policies, procedures, practices and
    cultures.
    2.2 The majority of local government employees in Wales are able to attend work
    regularly, but like all organisations councils have some sickness absence
    within their workforce. Over a number of years councils across Wales have
    been striving to reduce their rates of sickness absence and they have had
    some, albeit limited, success. In 2008-09 the average rate across Welsh local
    government was 11.5 days per Full Time Equivalent (FTE) employee and this
    fell to 9.9 in 2014-15. But in 2014-15 local government in Wales still lagged
    behind the private sector and the UK public sector rate which have 5.8 and
    8.7 days per FTE respectively"

    ps - we are supposed to be discussing Carillion (just saying)

  5. #65

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    wow #snowflake - you trigger so easily :-
    Ah I see the alt-right handbook you got for Christmas being put to good use.

    My first job was as a skivvy in HR - Adult Care Services and Children's Services (i.e. people who work directly with vulnerable and ill adults and children) dragged the average up significantly. Finance, HR etc. had very similar levels to the private sector average. It might come as a massive surprise but it isn't a fantastic idea to go to work with a cold if you work with and around vulnerable children and adults who might die from complications after catching it from you. Unless the figures are adjusted to take into account the different rigours and responsibilities of each job role/sector then it is actually flagrant to publish them without stating so, in my opinion.

    This feels a bit like shouting at a spider to get out of the bathtub, you don't really understand what you are posting so lets move back to Carillion.

    You confidently stated

    But no one is getting 'shafted' as you so eloquently put it
    Do you still believe this to be true?

    You also missed my post on the first page, choosing to reply to the one's around it instead. Maybe you could answer this time.

    I pay into a pension scheme, I imagine most on here do. I pay tax, I imagine most on here do. The tax I pay goes to pay for projects like HS2, my pension contributions may well also get invested in a company like this. So I am potentially part-funding the CEO's payrise twice. He drives off into the sunset with his bags of dosh after doing a shitty job and my pittance pension takes another hit.

    Does this really look like an example of a situation that doesn't affect the little people?

  6. #66

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Ah I see the alt-right handbook you got for Christmas being put to good use.

    My first job was as a skivvy in HR - Adult Care Services and Children's Services (i.e. people who work directly with vulnerable and ill adults and children) dragged the average up significantly. Finance, HR etc. had very similar levels to the private sector average. It might come as a massive surprise but it isn't a fantastic idea to go to work with a cold if you work with and around vulnerable children and adults who might die from complications after catching it from you. Unless the figures are adjusted to take into account the different rigours and responsibilities of each job role/sector then it is actually flagrant to publish them without stating so, in my opinion.

    This feels a bit like shouting at a spider to get out of the bathtub, you don't really understand what you are posting so lets move back to Carillion.

    You confidently stated



    Do you still believe this to be true?

    You also missed my post on the first page, choosing to reply to the one's around it instead. Maybe you could answer this time.
    Im alt right - haha - that is the weirdest thing youve ever said - and that is a long list Eric.
    What are you thoughts on the ONS stats re their figures - and that it seems the public sector and councils in particular have an issue with being on the sick. I dont think your sickness levels - when compared to the whole country will skew the balance somehow. I say this Eric - as I used to work at the council - and (as said) we were all told to make sure you have 10 days sick per year. From the stats - that hasn't changed much - although Cardiff council now have measures in place to deal with it.

    Anyway - re people being shafted - Carillion employees working on public contracts (or in my case a friend on the HS2 project - are not being shafted - they are continuing to work and be paid, in due time they will transfer with the same pay to a new employer - ie one of the other main contractors that will take on the Carillion parts of the work.

    So - same job, same pay etc - I dont call that being shafted - in the circumstances.
    I have no idea what will happen to Carillion employees who are working on non public sector work. I would assume that these projects still need to be completed and there is a client who needs the work done - which is why Carillion went into compulsory liquidation rather than administration.

    The people who have been shafted are anyone who invested in equity in Carillion, private investors, pension funds etc - the share value is just about nil.
    The example of the business that was owed £800,000 by Carillion - Im sorry Eric - but that is gross stupidity on the part of that business. What type of business person allows a debt of 800k to accrue - before demanding payment. They should have smelt a rat a long time before, especially if Carillion were refusing to pay them. They should have down tools immediately and gone straight to court.
    So yes - I would feel desperately sorry for those employees - for having such a boss, and especially if they get laid off as a result. But that is business - businesses fail, debts are owed, and unfortunately if you are left being owed money, you have a big problem.

    Someone did me for 10 grand once, it was a limited company, had no assets, nothing I could do about it - he was an (ex) mate, who just disappeared and by the time I did some research - any money / assets were gone, everything else was in his wife's name. It still p'ss's me off to this day.

    Eric - if youre at all interested Ive just had a text from my mate on the HS2 project is taking redundancy - getting half a years salary, and thinks he can get a job working with another company on the HS2 within a month. If that comes off - he has a win win.

    Must get back to my diy jobs now - wiring in light fittings - deep joy.

  7. #67

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    Im alt right - haha - that is the weirdest thing youve ever said.
    I didn't say that, did I?

  8. #68

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    Im alt right - haha - that is the weirdest thing youve ever said - and that is a long list Eric.
    What are you thoughts on the ONS stats re their figures - and that it seems the public sector and councils in particular have an issue with being on the sick. I dont think your sickness levels - when compared to the whole country will skew the balance somehow. I say this Eric - as I used to work at the council - and (as said) we were all told to make sure you have 10 days sick per year. From the stats - that hasn't changed much - although Cardiff council now have measures in place to deal with it.
    See the Jordan Peterson thread on the main board and watch the first 3 minutes of the video where he talks about multivariate vs univariate analysis. They publish the numbers for us to muse upon but I am quite certain no statistician worth his/her salt would intend for you to interpret them in the way that you have chosen to.

  9. #69

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    Im alt right - haha - that is the weirdest thing youve ever said - and that is a long list Eric.
    What are you thoughts on the ONS stats re their figures - and that it seems the public sector and councils in particular have an issue with being on the sick. I dont think your sickness levels - when compared to the whole country will skew the balance somehow. I say this Eric - as I used to work at the council - and (as said) we were all told to make sure you have 10 days sick per year. From the stats - that hasn't changed much - although Cardiff council now have measures in place to deal with it.

    Anyway - re people being shafted - Carillion employees working on public contracts (or in my case a friend on the HS2 project - are not being shafted - they are continuing to work and be paid, in due time they will transfer with the same pay to a new employer - ie one of the other main contractors that will take on the Carillion parts of the work.

    So - same job, same pay etc - I dont call that being shafted - in the circumstances.
    I have no idea what will happen to Carillion employees who are working on non public sector work. I would assume that these projects still need to be completed and there is a client who needs the work done - which is why Carillion went into compulsory liquidation rather than administration.

    The people who have been shafted are anyone who invested in equity in Carillion, private investors, pension funds etc - the share value is just about nil.
    The example of the business that was owed £800,000 by Carillion - Im sorry Eric - but that is gross stupidity on the part of that business. What type of business person allows a debt of 800k to accrue - before demanding payment. They should have smelt a rat a long time before, especially if Carillion were refusing to pay them. They should have down tools immediately and gone straight to court.
    So yes - I would feel desperately sorry for those employees - for having such a boss, and especially if they get laid off as a result. But that is business - businesses fail, debts are owed, and unfortunately if you are left being owed money, you have a big problem.

    Someone did me for 10 grand once, it was a limited company, had no assets, nothing I could do about it - he was an (ex) mate, who just disappeared and by the time I did some research - any money / assets were gone, everything else was in his wife's name. It still p'ss's me off to this day.

    Eric - if youre at all interested Ive just had a text from my mate on the HS2 project is taking redundancy - getting half a years salary, and thinks he can get a job working with another company on the HS2 within a month. If that comes off - he has a win win.

    Must get back to my diy jobs now - wiring in light fittings - deep joy.
    I guess our wires are crossed, don't forgive the pun, because I was looking at this from a broader perspective than just this one company. What I was trying to say earlier in the thread is that we, as taxpayers and pension holders, are intrinsically linked to these behemoths but we have such little say over their behaviour. In other countries, this investigation into their directors and senior staff would probably result in jail terms but you almost know for certain that here in the UK nothing will come from it. I wasn't just referring to contractors and smaller companies caught up in this debacle, I was referring to everyone else and next scandal and the one after that.

  10. #70

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    When asked about Carillion on the radio this morning, Diane Abbott asked “how many is a Carillion?”

  11. #71

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    When asked about Carillion on the radio this morning, Diane Abbott asked “how many is a Carillion?”
    According to Sky a Carillion equals approximately £5 billion with half of that being pension liaibilites. Good joke though!

    https://news.sky.com/story/revealed-...ities-11213303

  12. #72

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I guess our wires are crossed, don't forgive the pun, because I was looking at this from a broader perspective than just this one company. What I was trying to say earlier in the thread is that we, as taxpayers and pension holders, are intrinsically linked to these behemoths but we have such little say over their behaviour. In other countries, this investigation into their directors and senior staff would probably result in jail terms but you almost know for certain that here in the UK nothing will come from it. I wasn't just referring to contractors and smaller companies caught up in this debacle, I was referring to everyone else and next scandal and the one after that.
    The Taxpayer isnt losing out here - as we the taxpayer arent bailing them out - as far as I am aware. Pension funds as share holders of Carillion - maybe should have been more on the ball and dumped the stock on the 1st profit warnings announcement - maybe they did ?.

    I know what you mean though Eric - greater corporate penalties for those that are proven to have acted not in the best interest of the shareholders. We need to be more like what happened to Conrad Black and Allen Stanford (110 years sentence) in the US.

    Although having said that - Chappel from the BHS pensions scandal - looks like he'll be doing a stretch. Phil Green should be as well, same goes for large corps not paying tax in the country of purchase and funneling it through Dublin, same goes for service utilities like Thames water who are now off shore and have amassed 1billion worth of debt etc etc

    I should caveat that - as the Pension Deficit Fund maybe (but by no means certainly) be called in. I dont know how the pension deficit fund is financed

  13. #73

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Thatcher's legacy.
    PFI's were not her legacy , Labour were heavily involved in their use, it was a good idea at the time as it mitigated goverment expenditure having the cost and risk of the books , however it is now probaly outdated and need a rethink or deep regulation.

  14. #74

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    wow #snowflake - you trigger so easily :-

    Use of the word "snowflake" = a sure sign you're losing the argument.

  15. #75

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    The Taxpayer isnt losing out here - as we the taxpayer arent bailing them out - as far as I am aware. Pension funds as share holders of Carillion - maybe should have been more on the ball and dumped the stock on the 1st profit warnings announcement - maybe they did ?.

    I know what you mean though Eric - greater corporate penalties for those that are proven to have acted not in the best interest of the shareholders. We need to be more like what happened to Conrad Black and Allen Stanford (110 years sentence) in the US.

    Although having said that - Chappel from the BHS pensions scandal - looks like he'll be doing a stretch. Phil Green should be as well, same goes for large corps not paying tax in the country of purchase and funneling it through Dublin, same goes for service utilities like Thames water who are now off shore and have amassed 1billion worth of debt etc etc

    I should caveat that - as the Pension Deficit Fund maybe (but by no means certainly) be called in. I dont know how the pension deficit fund is financed
    What????? There are estimates that the collapse will cost the taxpayer at least one billion pounds.

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/n...ayer-1-bn.html

  16. #76

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie Andy View Post
    What????? There are estimates that the collapse will cost the taxpayer at least one billion pounds.

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/n...ayer-1-bn.html
    If you had said may cost the tax payer - fair enough, but seeing as you said will cost a billion pounds - then you are passing this off as fact - when it isnt a known figure yet


    After what has happened - would you honestly trust an un-named 'source' from Carillion ?

    "The fallout from the Carillion collapse could cost the taxpayer more than £1billion, a senior insider at the company has said.

    Fees paid to liquidation advisers PwC could also run into hundreds of millions, the source added.

    The highly placed figure, who was involved in the attempts to save Carillion, said the Government's decision not to support a rescue plan was 'shattering'. "

    Lots of coulds and maybe's , PwC are a bunch of sharks. In this case remember the Govt dont own Carillion, or manage Carillion - they are merely a customer, they are not responsible for the company, its actions or its shareholders or employees. What it does want though is to build a railway line and a hospital etc etc.

    If the Govt was to under write every private company it did business with - what do you think would happen ?, you would be going mad about the Govt helping out big business, bailing out the bankers etc etc

    From the SkeNews report I read

    "The Government argues that a third of the contracts it now has to sort out were signed under the last Labour government.

    But the Government does now face the reality of having to take some of these contracts back in-house, effectively renationalising them, and providing for a significant taxpayer loan to the receiver, of an as of yet unspecified amount, and then also take responsibility for the provision of these services again."

    So if the Govt are effectively re nationalising the contracts - you should be happy - as I'm guessing that's what you wanted ?.

    In very simplistic terms - If the Govt take back in house the delivery of part of the work - then where is the additional costs coming from - they no longer have to pay Carillion anything - they do have to pay the running costs of the project - but that money would have been factored in to the original cost as well.

    I'll see my mate on the HS2 project later this week - I'll ask him re the costs / liabilities etc - he'll have a better understanding of what is actually happening on the ground.

    Personally - HS2 should never have been built - now seems the perfect opportunity to scale it back or scrap it. It may end costing a few million - or it may end up cost 100 Trillion by the time PwC cost it - but seeing as no one knows yet - we shouldnt be passing off opinion as fact - in my humble opinion anyway :)

  17. #77

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    i'd blame anyone who is a position of government authority ,and leave those poor old people running Carillion alone,and anyone else who is touching /managing state provided money .

  18. #78

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    i'd blame anyone who is a position of government authority ,and leave those poor old people running Carillion alone,and anyone else who is touching /managing state provided money .
    Did anybody say this?

    It sounds as though you don't want the government to be held to account for anything they do.

  19. #79

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    May ok may cost the taxpayer. But I wouldn’t mind betting you I’ll be near the mark.

    You have a go at me for linking to an unnamed source from Carillion and then you state you are going to talk to your mate, an unnamed source to ask “what’s happening on the ground”.

    And yes I am of the opinion that all the contracts should be renationalised.

    Particularly when you read articles like this

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-audit-office

  20. #80

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie Andy View Post
    May ok may cost the taxpayer. But I wouldn’t mind betting you I’ll be near the mark.

    You have a go at me for linking to an unnamed source from Carillion and then you state you are going to talk to your mate, an unnamed source to ask “what’s happening on the ground”.

    And yes I am of the opinion that all the contracts should be renationalised.

    Particularly when you read articles like this

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-audit-office
    To be honest - you quoting a Guardian written article is about as unbiased as me quoting you a daily express article on how Diana died etc. The Guardian is to the Left as the Daily Mail is to the right.

    Im not about to give you the name of a mate who works for Carillion on a public forum either (you'll just have to truist me or not - your call). Im due to see him later this week - he works out of Wolverhampton at the moment. I will grant you this though - there may well be a cost re the Carillion Pension fund deficit - I'll ask him what the score is with the pensions.

  21. #81

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    To be honest - you quoting a Guardian written article is about as unbiased as me quoting you a daily express article on how Diana died etc. The Guardian is to the Left as the Daily Mail is to the right.

    Im not about to give you the name of a mate who works for Carillion on a public forum either (you'll just have to truist me or not - your call). Im due to see him later this week - he works out of Wolverhampton at the moment. I will grant you this though - there may well be a cost re the Carillion Pension fund deficit - I'll ask him what the score is with the pensions.
    OK another article

    http://www.cityam.com/279297/carilli...yer-gbp54m-day

    “Hundreds of Carillion's public sector contracts are costing the government millions of pounds in temporary funding every day, according to official statistics”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...lion-jwh8vb9bc

    “Taxpayers face huge bill for collapse of Carillion”.

    You and your friend must be both living in cloud cuckoo land

  22. #82

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie Andy View Post
    OK another article

    http://www.cityam.com/279297/carilli...yer-gbp54m-day

    “Hundreds of Carillion's public sector contracts are costing the government millions of pounds in temporary funding every day, according to official statistics”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...lion-jwh8vb9bc

    “Taxpayers face huge bill for collapse of Carillion”.

    You and your friend must be both living in cloud cuckoo land
    Why are you always so so angry ?

    Ok I understand the point of your argument now - just to let you know for every pound the Govt are paying to keep these Carillion contracts rolling is a pound less they pay Carillion. So for example lets say the Govt were paying Carillion 1 million a month for HS2 work, they are now paying those workers wages rather than paying Carillion.

    I emailed my mate tonight, the above scenario is in place for a month, whilst they transfer over to other companies. It is envisaged anyway that they will all move in 1 block. Of course - things could change - but that is the current plan. They are also offering redundancy on basic terms for those workers no longer needed.

    My mate wants to try for redundancy and then start looking - the biggest worry is the pensions though.

  23. #83

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Linking to articles on a message board and having discussions on points you disagree with is being angry? I’m the calmest person in the world darling.

  24. #84

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Told on Friday - his last day is next week - last day of the month - statutory redundancy terms. Because the company has been liquidated - the redundancy money is coming from the Govt via a loan - the redundancy money will be paid back to the Govt when the assets have been sold off. He was officially not on the HS2 project - just seconded - hence the redundancy - otherwise he would have been kept on and transferred over to Eiffage , until the completion of the project. It seems Eiffage and a couple of other companies are picking up the work that Carillion were doing - thats what they have been told anyway.

  25. #85

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Lucky him. Shame about the apprentices though isn’t it.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b01fbbefb37576

  26. #86

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie Andy View Post
    Lucky him. Shame about the apprentices though isn’t it.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b01fbbefb37576
    Oh Dear - give it up

    A private company went bust - bad things happen - people lose their jobs etc. What we were discussing was the cost to the Govt and whether they would bail out a private company - well guess what - they havent - like they havent done before. What they did do was facilitate an arrangement whereby the public sector projects (and the people working on them) continued and are getting other companies to continue the work, so there is as little disruption to the projects as possible.

    This is your cue - to now reply about the bankers and why the Govt bailed them out - they had no choice - as the whole fecking economy stops if all your banks fail.

    There are 3 things that feck me off in all of this :-

    1. The pension fund was seemingly allowed to have a short fall estimated to be around 700 million - that's the biggest problem of all
    2. KPMG it seems cooked the books - albeit in a legal way at the behest of the CEO.
    3. Bad senior management / incompetence has given everyone a headache - and I doubt they will do jail time for it.

    That's me done on this thread (ps - of course I care about anyone losing their jobs - but thats for another thread)

  27. #87

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    Oh Dear - give it up

    A private company went bust - bad things happen - people lose their jobs etc. What we were discussing was the cost to the Govt and whether they would bail out a private company - well guess what - they havent - like they havent done before. What they did do was facilitate an arrangement whereby the public sector projects (and the people working on them) continued and are getting other companies to continue the work, so there is as little disruption to the projects as possible.

    This is your cue - to now reply about the bankers and why the Govt bailed them out - they had no choice - as the whole fecking economy stops if all your banks fail.

    There are 3 things that feck me off in all of this :-

    1. The pension fund was seemingly allowed to have a short fall estimated to be around 700 million - that's the biggest problem of all
    2. KPMG it seems cooked the books - albeit in a legal way at the behest of the CEO.
    3. Bad senior management / incompetence has given everyone a headache - and I doubt they will do jail time for it.

    That's me done on this thread (ps - of course I care about anyone losing their jobs - but thats for another thread)
    Don’t be so precious, are you the only one allowed to have an opinion? Calm down dear.

  28. #88

    Re: Carillion oh verge of collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie Andy View Post
    Don’t be so precious, are you the only one allowed to have an opinion? Calm down dear.
    May I ask are you man or woman ?

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