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Thread: NHS Wales

  1. #1

    NHS Wales

    Crumbling under the Welsh Government

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-42718115

    Shameful, Carwyn, truly shameful.

  2. #2

    Re: NHS Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Crumbling under the Welsh Government

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-42718115

    Shameful, Carwyn, truly shameful.
    It works like this , central Tory government gives less money to Wales thus cuts are made which filter through to the NHS .......if it wasn't the NHS it would be parents complaining about cuts to schools or social care for the elderly , which has seen less cuts than has happened in England

    Have you seen what the Tories have been doing to the NHS in England ? It's a lot more than just NHS accident and emergency times my friend ....letters like the ones written to carwyn are not compared to the hatred aimed at Jeremy Hunt as he prepares the NHS for privatisation ! You must have cotton wool in your ears but I think the truth is you know the basic truth

    And that truth is the basic fact .......if we want a decent NHS and train service and road system we are going to have to be less greedy and pay for them via higher taxation !!.....but you Tories don't want that , you want high class services on the cheap ......and as they are finding out in England , it ain't possible

  3. #3

    Re: NHS Wales

    I don't live in Wales and I haven't had anything wrong with me recently (touch wood) but from what I gather, it isn't going well in England either. The problem is that people want top notch services but they don't want to pay for them. Hence PFI, hence pathetic attempts to throw the NHS a bone every winter. It is chronically underfunded, leading to a major staff exodus. The theory that it is a managed retreat was floated at the end of question time last night and it caused quite the commotion.

  4. #4

    Re: NHS Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    The NHS in England is better funded - period.
    The WAG decided that it would be better to protect welfare - their choice - they are the Govt in Wales - and Labour always will be.

    Have you worked in the NHS ? - I have, and the wastage and stupid decisions that are made - are quite frankly criminal. Why does Cardiff and Vale Health board - not just pay nurses over time at time and a quarter - why do they instead get bank nurses - that cost them more ?

    Why do health boards use out of date CPD medicines - when there are cheaper and better available ? , why does each individual health board in Wales insist on testing these medicines before taking them on - when they have already been tested and approved by the WAG and other individual heath boards in Wales - let alone other health boards in England.

    It is decisions and policies like this - that waste huge amounts of money - but most people dont see or know this - they instead blame 'Da Govt' , you never solve a problem by just throwing money at it, you look for continuous cost savings and rip out inefficiencies wherever you find them - which then releases funds back into the health budget.

    NHS England converted to voice over IP phones and saved 300 million a year in phone charges - that money then went elsewhere in the NHS, I dont think they ever bothered doing this in Wales.

    I had an aunt who was a retired social worker - she was on the Vale mental health board - met once a month - 32k a year - things like this have been allowed to build up over the years - without anyone ever challenging them. It maybe 'our' NHS - but we are fecking rubbish at running it on an admin level.
    I see similar kinds of waste where I work (systemic and historical). People in management roles that simply don't have the broad knowledge base required to bring a service into the 21st century. I also see foolish government policy causing further waste, it is pretty clear that the majority of MP's don't possess the skills either and since change will inevitably be led by these people that is worrying (I am thinking about that car crash hashtag interview...)

    The reality is though that everyone I talk to in big organisations public and private has the same kind of gripes and i would bet they do in other countries too and since our spend on health is comparatively low, maybe we aren't doing so bad).

  5. #5

    Re: NHS Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    It works like this (as we all should know) - in England the Westminster Govt choose to ring fence the NHS budget.
    In Wales the WAG decided not to ring fence - as a result the health spending Wales dropped - as seen by a close family relative working at the heath - their budget was cut all round by 10% - Im guessing that was the same for other hospitals.

    As a whole over the UK (or I think maybe this is just in England - will have to check if I have time) - The health budget was increased by 4% - and has done most years - BUT the problem is demand on the whole goes up by 8% per year.

    You have a choice - lower demand or increase health spending by either taking it off another budget (eg Foreign aid) or increasing taxes - take your pick.

    Please remember though - it was the WAG that decided NOT to protect the Welsh NHS budget.

    We have had 18+ years of Labour at the WAG - and they still stick to the same line - blame everything on Westminster - just like the SNP do in Edinburgh.

    This story from the mirror doesnt exactly help our NHS either
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...-more-11813971
    Ask your relatives , friends etc whatever what is the situation of social care of the elderly in England ?

    It's shocking and the Tories have overseen that , yet this is yet another political post by a well known Tory , backed up by ....a well known Tory

    As for mental health the situation in England and Wales is dire but it always has been ......mental health is and always will be the poor relation of other services in the NHS so you can bet your arse if the NHS is being poorly funded , mental health services will be cut to the bone


    It's very simple , either we increase taxes to invest in a high quality NHS or we don't .......middle England via theresa may doesn't want that so on it goes

    That's me out of it it's pointless arguing with Tories

  6. #6

    Re: NHS Wales

    Whatever you politically believe, the deeper question you must ask, is it manged correctly as this is not the only area of under performance in Wales ,folk need to move the blinkers and examine it deeper , if your purchase something as an individual you carefully ensure you chose the right product by value and performance .

  7. #7

    Re: NHS Wales

    Its so easy to blame someone else or something you dislike,the more we do this the less those in control will stop trying to become efficient or press for value for money , I worry that the Labour in wales ( who I voted for ) are frightened to make tough decision to benefit those lower down the food chain.

    We get 7.3 billion pa for health that's about 2,3 k per person p.a, bit more than those in England and they don't free prescriptions ??

    I would think more of Welsh Labour if they challenged the waste , means test free prescriptions,bus travel for the wealthy , congestion charge the city center , allow free 7th bridge travel for smaller cars , lorries only .charge fuel guzzling business cars though all spring to mind

    This is not the only failing area ,education is also up there , infrastructures .

    Perhaps as Labour voters we should question that fact of ineffectiveness ,mismanagement of budgets and poor decision and lack of be able to make a tough decision , not blame everything on the Tories because you hate them .

    It must be great being in power or running a health trust , if something has unperformed you simply get your spin doctors out , blame the Tories , because your forever in power to spend and manage badly , priceless politics .

  8. #8

    Re: NHS Wales

    I can't keep up with current CCMB logic. Is it right or wrong to blame the government for bad decisions they make? It was wrong last week I think but we were talking about the whole of the UK then.

    Fill me in lads.

  9. #9

    Re: NHS Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    That just about sums it up for Labour in Wales, they will get voted back in next time, regardless of what they do or dont do, because of the sheep mentality of welsh voters. In fact it sums it up for any political party that has a monopoly on Govt, luckily Westminister is not like Wales and at least there is a chance of either coalition or Labour - if they get their act together to challenge the Govt. Labour will never get in as long as they have a 250billion spending program in place though - in my opinion - we are going back to square 1 to Gordon Browns PFI explosion.
    I think we need to step back from the sheep mentality of Labour voters everywhere as its not a nice statement , I 'm not a sheep and have voted Labour all my life , folk were greatly effected in Wales due to the Tories /Thatcherism .

    However if you wanted to see evidence of Labour ( lets call it " ironic voting ") is the Brexit vote where it put two fingers up to Labour and voted for a worse right party than the Tories in UKIP ,then flooded back to Labour out of pure hatred of the Tories, but then backed a Labour party happy to have a greater free movement of Labour / immigration , no benefit caps , under the banner of inclusiveness, which is fine , but ironic ,as those issues were the core of the UKIP,mantra .

    The Labour party for me has to provide evidence that not everything is for free and just funded from the public purse ,and no one challenges miss management of public funds ,and poor inefficiencies, we are in a different age now

  10. #10

    Re: NHS Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    However if you wanted to see evidence of Labour ( lets call it " ironic voting ") is the Brexit vote where it put two fingers up to Labour and voted for a worse right party than the Tories in UKIP
    No, they voted to leave the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    then flooded back to Labour out of pure hatred of the Tories
    You can't flood back when you never left, they voted to leave the EU.

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    but then backed a Labour party happy to have a greater free movement of Labour / immigration
    I don't think there is much evidence to suggest that the centrist elements of either major party actually wants to curb free movement. Corbyn would probably like to, Rees-Mogg too.

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    no benefit caps , under the banner of inclusiveness, which is fine , but ironic
    Not entirely sure what benefit caps have got to do with voting to leave the EU.

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    as those issues were the core of the UKIP,mantra.
    The only thing that you can categorically state that brexit voters and UKIP supporters agree on is that we shouldn't be in the EU.

    There are so many really interesting ways to analyse the last election (major parties both in a pretty awful state and hoover up record vote share etc.), this isn't one of them I don't think.

  11. #11

    Re: NHS Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    No, they voted to leave the EU



    You can't flood back when you never left, they voted to leave the EU.



    I don't think there is much evidence to suggest that the centrist elements of either major party actually wants to curb free movement. Corbyn would probably like to, Rees-Mogg too.



    Not entirely sure what benefit caps have got to do with voting to leave the EU.



    The only thing that you can categorically state that brexit voters and UKIP supporters agree on is that we shouldn't be in the EU.

    There are so many really interesting ways to analyse the last election (major parties both in a pretty awful state and hoover up record vote share etc.), this isn't one of them I don't think.
    All your points are valid however the behaviour patterns of Welsh voters suggests they did believe in a right wing mantra during Brexit but not in the general election .

    I mentioned benefit caps as UKIP suppot that policy and Labour dont .

    My post was positioning the distinct differences between UKIP policy and Labour.

    It's fickle voting at ,it's best.

    True Labour voters would have stayed clear of UKIP allegiance, and they didn't .

  12. #12

    Re: NHS Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    All your points are valid however the behaviour patterns of Welsh voters suggests they did believe in a right wing mantra during Brexit but not in the general election .

    I mentioned benefit caps as UKIP suppot that policy and Labour dont .

    My post was positioning the distinct differences between UKIP policy and Labour.

    It's fickle voting at ,it's best.

    True Labour voters would have stayed clear of UKIP allegiance, and they didn't .
    I just disagree, I think the referendum was almost not political in its nature. Most of the voting was done on gut feeling and within the two main parties you find a massive divide on the issue.

  13. #13

    Re: NHS Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I just disagree, I think the referendum was almost not political in its nature. Most of the voting was done on gut feeling and within the two main parties you find a massive divide on the issue.
    I guess its all down to people In 2022.

    I wonder what would happen if one of the parties set thier main manifesto on the principle promise of a second referendum.?

  14. #14

    Re: NHS Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    These threads are like Godwyns Law in action - instead of 8 sentences before someone brings up Hitler, replace Hitler with Brexit.

    NHS in Wales - discuss..... and dont mention the B word
    Your right we have drifted somewhat, anyway NHS in Wales has been struggling for years and its someone's fault depending on which political party you dislike the most , and bugger all to do with those managing the 7.3 billion .

  15. #15

    Re: NHS Wales

    More positive news , who shall we blame

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-42921441

  16. #16

    Re: NHS Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
    Ive dealt with a couple of them in a very small capacity, some are ok, but most are prehistoric in their thinking, their attitude and in the drugs they prescribe. This is the cue for someone to start blaming westminster..... it is the WAG and the HB's themselves that are to blame.

    There is so much resource that should be shared, each health board doesnt need to sign off and test each new drug. It should be done at a WAG level - or much better at a UK NHS level.

    It wont make a slight bit difference though, Labour have a monopoly on power in Wales, they have no incentive to improve anything, just blame it on Westminster every time. Same goes for the health boards, they remain mostly untouchable, like little ivory towers that cant be touched.

    ps - 1 million A&E visits per year - there are only 3 million of us...., Ive been to A&E once in the last 25 years - I cant be the only fit and healthy one in Wales ? , maybe the negotiated GP contract back in 2002 by nu Labour is the effect - Doctors to work less hours, not weekend working or out of hours - and get a massive pay rise - that is probably the reason for a year on year increase.

    Some people treat A&E like a doctors surgery now, Accident and Emergency (the clue is in the title)
    I'd charge for proven non incidental A and E drop in's , bit like the dentist ,watch the pointless visits drop .

    I heard a friend say the other day they went to A & E because there sinus were bad and the GP was closed , I'd grab a bowl of steam water and breath it in ,much better than spending hours in A&E, if it is a million visits in a year, thats madness as its a third of the population , that is bonkers, and not a goverment funding issue ,bloody hell we need to man up a d self help ourselves not exoect bloody endless free handouts , we wouldn't manage our own finances like that ,and of we did then we could all pay another 1p in tax to fix this .

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