The negativity on this board is ludicrous!

[Penarth Blues]

Surely the point is though that in a League noted for it's direct football anyway, it seems to me that there are more sides that are not rolling the ball out and playing from the back than there usually is. Yet in this league where "passing football" seems less popular than normal and the standard of passing probably isn't as good as it has been, we are still bottom of all the stats designed to measure quality of passing?

To be blunt Bob, when you are fighting to overcome a pretty disastrous run of results the football is not going to be pretty as you attempt to regain confidence in your play by scrapping to get back on track. We're starting to do this but it'll take time to become more fluid in our forward movement.

I'm really disappointed in a lot of comments on this thread as I hadn't realised we'd got such a bunch of depressives on here - and you've surprised me most of all given how long you've been watching us.

The other point I'll make is that you play to your strengths and the things that have been working for you. I think we'd get absolutely battered in most games if we tried to outplay other teams in areas that are their strengths. Passing is not something we've ever been good at since I've watched Cardiff - honourable exclusions to this include Whitts and one or two others but they had other flaws to their games. You are clutching at straws if you think Gunnarsson has ever been a good passer and it's an absolute given he'll be even worse when he returns from long-term injury.

The one point I will agree with is that we need to be more in control of where the long balls are going when we're playing them out. It does seem to me that we're now aiming at Patterson a lot more from goal kicks and he is excellent at winning the headers from those balls.

I'm enjoying our football this season and I think that we'll rediscover a more fluid team game over the next few weeks. Whether that will be enough we'll have to wait and see but it's already been a season where I've seen better football from us as a team than I have in many years. I'd have thought that would have been enough to cut the side some slack but apparently not. Seems a number of our fans have 'Premiership supporter' disease already.

[dembethewarrior]

I wasnt and am still not in a bar, I am on this forum and yet am not miserable or negative about City, so thats your theory disproved.

You really are a barrel full of laughs aint you.

[dml1954]

To be blunt Bob, when you are fighting to overcome a pretty disastrous run of results the football is not going to be pretty as you attempt to regain confidence in your play by scrapping to get back on track. We're starting to do this but it'll take time to become more fluid in our forward movement.

I'm really disappointed in a lot of comments on this thread as I hadn't realised we'd got such a bunch of depressives on here - and you've surprised me most of all given how long you've been watching us.

The other point I'll make is that you play to your strengths and the things that have been working for you. I think we'd get absolutely battered in most games if we tried to outplay other teams in areas that are their strengths. Passing is not something we've ever been good at since I've watched Cardiff - honourable exclusions to this include Whitts and one or two others but they had other flaws to their games. You are clutching at straws if you think Gunnarsson has ever been a good passer and it's an absolute given he'll be even worse when he returns from long-term injury.

The one point I will agree with is that we need to be more in control of where the long balls are going when we're playing them out. It does seem to me that we're now aiming at Patterson a lot more from goal kicks and he is excellent at winning the headers from those balls.

I'm enjoying our football this season and I think that we'll rediscover a more fluid team game over the next few weeks. Whether that will be enough we'll have to wait and see but it's already been a season where I've seen better football from us as a team than I have in many years. I'd have thought that would have been enough to cut the side some slack but apparently not. Seems a number of our fans have 'Premiership supporter' disease already.

Agree totally with this.

[dml1954]

You really are a barrel full of laughs aint you.

Glad you liked it. It was in answer to another stupid post by Louth by the way.

[dembethewarrior]

First thing Damour did was run 30 yards with the ball into an area where he had no support and lost the ball.
😂

He was involved in every one of our 4 Christmas defeats .

He was pretty awful starting in the first 3 and then came on as a sub when Peltier got injured at QPR when we were 1-0 up !

Against Fulham we improved dramatically when Patterson came on for him - including Patterson scoring, something he is doing week after week, but Damour hasn't done at all !

Bolton away and Preston at home were 2 of our worst 4 performances this season and a hell of a lot worse than Millwall. Damour started both.


In fairness to the lad he works very hard and was probably not physically up to the amount of games he had to play, BUT if you think he's the answer to our 'problem ' of not passing the ball well you are in for a BIG disappointment.

He is handy to bring off the bench, but with the loaning of Tomlin to Forest we no longer have a playmaker. Best chance of improving the passing in midfield is Bryson coming back, but I think he's disappeared with Fred 😂

Damour was also part of our good start to the season and was very good against wolves (for example)

[Tuerto]

I think there is bit of a misconception here, because I don't feel those being critical of the sort of stuff we've been playing recently want to see us playing "silky football" - as you say, we're not really suited to playing that way. However, speaking for myself, I'd like to see us playing like we did for a year under Neil Warnock's management when we were able to play to our front three's strengths. Last season Hoilett, Harris and Zohore were a very effective Championship forward line because we played the ball into the channels as opposed to the hooking, bashing and crash bang walloping that we have been seeing lately.

Look at what happens with Zohore - Junior Hoilett plays a proper pass, designed to utilise Zohore's strengths, to him and five seconds later, the ball is in Sunderland's net. I tend to be a backer of Zohore, but I was really annoyed with him in the Man City match because he was given two similar passes in that match and was too indecisive and selfish to make anything of them - he just hasn't been getting those sort of passes in the Championship though. For me, the signing of Madine is like an admission of defeat in that we seem to have accepted that we are unable now to provide the sort of service the striker who was so effective for us under Neil Warnock last season thrived on, so we have bring in someone else who will contest "fighting" balls for ninety minutes.

I'm not sure whether getting Bryson back would make much difference because he tended to disappear from matches too much for me, but I do believe that we are missing Gunnarsson an awful lot - apparently, I have a higher opinion of his passing than you, because I see him as a pretty good passer of the ball who is intelligent enough to play within his limitations.

You are right to name those sides who will offer us a similar type of challenge to Millwall because it seems to me that there are more sides playing a direct and physical game in the Championship than normal, but, despite this, we still sit there at the bottom of the table when it comes to passes played, successful passes played, accurate long balls and accurate short balls - as I said earlier in this thread, I find it incredible that a side lying fourth in the table with a third of the season left to play can have such woeful passing stats.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/25...ship-2017-2018

Gunnarrson can play a bit, he's not defensive minded, although he does a good job in that department. His passing is decent, so is his awareness.

[dembethewarrior]

I'd scrap wingers.

Chuck 2 up top and play hoilett behind them.

3 central midfielders.

[Tuerto]

To be blunt Bob, when you are fighting to overcome a pretty disastrous run of results the football is not going to be pretty as you attempt to regain confidence in your play by scrapping to get back on track. We're starting to do this but it'll take time to become more fluid in our forward movement.

I'm really disappointed in a lot of comments on this thread as I hadn't realised we'd got such a bunch of depressives on here - and you've surprised me most of all given how long you've been watching us.

The other point I'll make is that you play to your strengths and the things that have been working for you. I think we'd get absolutely battered in most games if we tried to outplay other teams in areas that are their strengths. Passing is not something we've ever been good at since I've watched Cardiff - honourable exclusions to this include Whitts and one or two others but they had other flaws to their games. You are clutching at straws if you think Gunnarsson has ever been a good passer and it's an absolute given he'll be even worse when he returns from long-term injury.

The one point I will agree with is that we need to be more in control of where the long balls are going when we're playing them out. It does seem to me that we're now aiming at Patterson a lot more from goal kicks and he is excellent at winning the headers from those balls.

I'm enjoying our football this season and I think that we'll rediscover a more fluid team game over the next few weeks. Whether that will be enough we'll have to wait and see but it's already been a season where I've seen better football from us as a team than I have in many years. I'd have thought that would have been enough to cut the side some slack but apparently not. Seems a number of our fans have 'Premiership supporter' disease already.

How do we become more in control of a long ball? You can't. It's either knocked over the head of the fullback, which turns into a footrace, or up to the strikers head, which is a contest with the central defender. I'd say that we need to be better at anticipating second balls, as that's where the joy usually comes from when the football is direct. Gunnarsson is a decent passer of the ball, he anticipates the game better than any of our midfield, and we are deeply missing him, as for movement up front, well, that's not really needed when the ball is lumped forward, Warnock wants the ball contested, and second balls picked up, that's it.

[Tuerto]

I'd scrap wingers.

Chuck 2 up top and play hoilett behind them.

3 central midfielders.

Means we play with four in midfield, leaves us very vulnerable as none of them are the most mobile, include the fullbacks in that as well. If we were better at retaining possession it may be an option.

[Penarth Blues]

How do we become more in control of a long ball? You can't. It's either knocked over the head of the fullback, which turns into a footrace, or up to the strikers head, which is a contest with the central defender. I'd say that we need to be better at anticipating second balls, as that's where the joy usually comes from when the football is direct. Gunnarsson is a decent passer of the ball, he anticipates the game better than any of our midfield, and we are deeply missing him, as for movement up front, well, that's not really needed when the ball is lumped forward, Warnock wants the ball contested, and second balls picked up, that's it.

A long ball can be played to feet or into the channels where we have quick players capable of putting their back line under pressure. it doesn't always have to be in the air when it arrives at the player.

I agree we need to become better at anticipating second balls. I'd also like us to start making ourselves available for the return pass rather than being static but accept we're not looking to do that at present, other than Junior.

I disagree with you about Gunnarsson's passing ability but the rest I agree with.

[dembethewarrior]

Means we play with four in midfield, leaves us very vulnerable as none of them are the most mobile, include the fullbacks in that as well. If we were better at retaining possession it may be an option.

If we want to keep the ball and pass it about we can. I've seen it with my own eyes..we did it against sheff weds for example.

Hoilett is dangerous so why not put him where he can create danger? NML has lost his shine, Wildschut is good and direct but goes missing for very long periods, and everyone knows we hit it down the wings so we're easy to set up against.

Maybe if Harris comes back with a bang we can stick to this formation.

[Tuerto]

A long ball can be played to feet or into the channels where we have quick players capable of putting their back line under pressure. it doesn't always have to be in the air when it arrives at the player.

I agree we need to become better at anticipating second balls. I'd also like us to start making ourselves available for the return pass rather than being static but accept we're not looking to do that at present, other than Junior.

I disagree with you about Gunnarsson's passing ability but the rest I agree with.

Fair enough-Reckon you're being a bit optimistic about the long ball being fizzed along the deck, takes some doing. Respect your opinion though.

[thehumblegringo]

To be blunt Bob, when you are fighting to overcome a pretty disastrous run of results the football is not going to be pretty as you attempt to regain confidence in your play by scrapping to get back on track. We're starting to do this but it'll take time to become more fluid in our forward movement.

I'm really disappointed in a lot of comments on this thread as I hadn't realised we'd got such a bunch of depressives on here - and you've surprised me most of all given how long you've been watching us.

The other point I'll make is that you play to your strengths and the things that have been working for you. I think we'd get absolutely battered in most games if we tried to outplay other teams in areas that are their strengths. Passing is not something we've ever been good at since I've watched Cardiff - honourable exclusions to this include Whitts and one or two others but they had other flaws to their games. You are clutching at straws if you think Gunnarsson has ever been a good passer and it's an absolute given he'll be even worse when he returns from long-term injury.

The one point I will agree with is that we need to be more in control of where the long balls are going when we're playing them out. It does seem to me that we're now aiming at Patterson a lot more from goal kicks and he is excellent at winning the headers from those balls.

I'm enjoying our football this season and I think that we'll rediscover a more fluid team game over the next few weeks. Whether that will be enough we'll have to wait and see but it's already been a season where I've seen better football from us as a team than I have in many years. I'd have thought that would have been enough to cut the side some slack but apparently not. Seems a number of our fans have 'Premiership supporter' disease already.

Since when are we not allowed to discuss and debate on a football forum?

It's like we've got to tow the party line and say Warnock is brilliant and can do no wrong.

Our business up until this window was very good in my opinion but this window has been a little desperate in my opinion. The football quality was on the decline for me long before our Christmas slump.

Are people entitled to disagree with me? Of course they are without me calling them "Sunday league football fans"

[Tuerto]

If we want to keep the ball and pass it about we can. I've seen it with my own eyes..we did it against sheff weds for example.

Hoilett is dangerous so why not put him where he can create danger? NML has lost his shine, Wildschut is good and direct but goes missing for very long periods, and everyone knows we hit it down the wings so we're easy to set up against.

Maybe if Harris comes back with a bang we can stick to this formation.

Fair points, although I presume you're talking about the Sheff Wed home game? I thought that they gave us a mild run around in that game-no end product though. I think we may have seen the best of Mendez, he's increasingly looking like a lower league level player, his main attribute seemed to be that he didn't know what he was going to do, hence the defender didn't know what he was going to do-now, he just doesn't know what he's going to do, piss poor control, running the ball out of play etc, and I can't see him becoming more composed, he's like a really fast Leo Fortune West. In saying that, if he's done all he can for the team this season, then whatever he's been paid has been earned back in his display and goals against Villa, Wolves and Sheffield United. Hope he regains his early form.

[J R Hartley]

No I didnt say that at all. You are making it up to make yourself look important/clever - an impossible job by the way, so give it up. What I said about him was he only cost £1.6m not £3m as people were saying, that he wasnt fit enough to play and that Warnock was right to leave him out as a result because some people were continually droning on that he should be playing.

Yes you did. Just search “Tomlin” under your username and the contradictions are there for all to see.

You’re so wrapped up in saying the opposite to people that you dont even realise you’re contradicting yourself.

[Tuerto]

Yes you did. Just search “Tomlin” under your username and the contradictions are there for all to see.

You’re so wrapped up in saying the opposite to people that you dont even realise you’re contradicting yourself.

He throws backhanded insults and presumptions in nearly all of his posts, it's like he feels the need to defend the team at all costs. This has been a good thread, only two posters have had to revert to being dismissive and making childish suggestions or comments, he's one of them.

[Penarth Blues]

Fair enough-Reckon you're being a bit optimistic about the long ball being fizzed along the deck, takes some doing. Respect your opinion though.

I was refering to balls over the top aiming to arrive at feet rather than head. Having argued we're not set up as a passing side I'm not expecting us to start playing passes like Kevin de Bruyne

[Organ Morgan.]

I booked a London hotel room yesterday for four nights from May 24th. The Championship Play-Off Final is May 26th. I'm unsure whether I was being positive or negative by doing so.

[Penarth Blues]

Since when are we not allowed to discuss and debate on a football forum?

It's like we've got to tow the party line and say Warnock is brilliant and can do no wrong.

Our business up until this window was very good in my opinion but this window has been a little desperate in my opinion. The football quality was on the decline for me long before our Christmas slump.

Are people entitled to disagree with me? Of course they are without me calling them "Sunday league football fans"

Who said we're not entitled to debate? I'm presenting my view on why I think the reaction in the rest of the thread to a poor Xmas has been a bit OTT. The comment about Premiership supporters was a poor one to make as it undermines from the other points I'm trying to put over so I withdraw it.

I think this whole debate depends on where our perspectives start. Mine start from expecting nothing from this season other than to become more competitive. For me we're over-achieving hugely.

I understand that having reached this position others would now like us to start playing more 'attractively' as they perceive it. I just don't think you're being particularly fair in your criticisms as we don't have the players to do that.

[thehumblegringo]

Who said we're not entitled to debate? I'm presenting my view on why I think the reaction in the rest of the thread to a poor Xmas has been a bit OTT. The comment about Premiership supporters was a poor one to make as it undermines from the other points I'm trying to put over so I withdraw it.

I think this whole debate depends on where our perspectives start. Mine start from expecting nothing from this season other than to become more competitive. For me we're over-achieving hugely.

I understand that having reached this position others would now like us to start playing more 'attractively' as they perceive it. I just don't think you're being particularly fair in your criticisms as we don't have the players to do that.

No problem mate, it wasn't a dig as you're a good poster who presents good arguments to a thread.

From my perspective I have been a bit underwhelmed with the football as I said in earlier post since about October. This coincided with some big injury problems to some big players so I thought the players performed wonders to "hang in there" at the top.

I couldn't wait til the transfer window and I thought Warnock would unveil some diamonds who would prove to be bargains but he never really addressed what I felt were the issues at hand.

I'm not and probably never will be a fan of Patterson as an attacking midfielder and the only time I could ever see a role for him in that position is to shut down someone like Neves when we play Wolves.

Like others have said in this thread, I'm not expecting us to be Man City but the predictability of our play at present must be mixed up if we're gonna make the play offs surely.

[Lawnmower]

Surely the point is though that in a League noted for it's direct football anyway, it seems to me that there are more sides that are not rolling the ball out and playing from the back than there usually is. Yet in this league where "passing football" seems less popular than normal and the standard of passing probably isn't as good as it has been, we are still bottom of all the stats designed to measure quality of passing?

I haven't counted, but it seems to me that most sides go short at at least some point in the game.

We certainly seem to spend less time than most, if not all doing pointless passing around the back 4.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

NML is a quality player. He's hit bad form not helped by the way the team have been playing these last few months. Aimless balls up to the front 3 doesn't help him. If we get back to the way we were playing as a team in the first 5 games we will see NML back to his best again. That requires a midfield composed of midfielders again. Guys who can pick out the likes of NML with a pass rather than aimless hoofball.

[Lawnmower]

Damour was also part of our good start to the season and was very good against wolves (for example)

Yes he was, but he's not a brilliant passer. His game is around work rate from what I've seen and Warnock's comments. He's pretty direct . Bringing him into the side won't make us a better passing team.

At the start of the season we also had Gunnar, Zohore and NML all firing.

[Lawnmower]

NML is a quality player. He's hit bad form not helped by the way the team have been playing these last few months. Aimless balls up to the front 3 doesn't help him. If we get back to the way we were playing as a team in the first 5 games we will see NML back to his best again. That requires a midfield composed of midfielders again. Guys who can pick out the likes of NML with a pass rather than aimless hoofball.

Seemed to me he had the ball quite a bit in Friday, but generally ran into trouble.

We can't pass the ball when we haven't got it, so avoiding giving it away cheaply is imperative

[Lawnmower]

How do we become more in control of a long ball? You can't. It's either knocked over the head of the fullback, which turns into a footrace, or up to the strikers head, which is a contest with the central defender. I'd say that we need to be better at anticipating second balls, as that's where the joy usually comes from when the football is direct. Gunnarsson is a decent passer of the ball, he anticipates the game better than any of our midfield, and we are deeply missing him, as for movement up front, well, that's not really needed when the ball is lumped forward, Warnock wants the ball contested, and second balls picked up, that's it.

I wouldn't say Gunnar is a good passer. In fact, that and his wayward shooting are his main weaknesses.

However I'd strongly agree that he is superb in winning 2nd balls