Brexit Redux

[Eric Cartman]

So you think that I think we have left the EU already, do you really think that ?.
In all the ins and outs of trade deals, who will be better off and who worse off.
I would just think of it like this - the EU sell us more than we sell them - is that correct ?
WTO rules of 10% tariffs if no agreement - is that correct ?
We would both be worse off if each side imposes 10% tariff on goods - correct ?

Would German car producers take the 10% tariff on the chin or would they increase their car price ?
If you had a choice of a German car that is 10% higher than a non EU car - which one would you buy ?

Both sides lose out - I wouldnt buy a car with a 10% tax on it - if I can buy a similar car for 10% less from somewhere else. Which is why pressure from business and member states will force Barnier to talk sense - and for us the same.

I think the 'German cars manufacturers, French wine makers and Spanish hotel owners' cliche really says it all about the leave campaign, they were talking down to their core vote right from the start, these examples always feel arrogant to me. Is it time we start to recognise that this is a bit more complex - we are dealing with a changing situation, a lot of powerful people with incredibly varied agenda's and 27 multi-faceted economies.

[Eric Cartman]

Eric - you seem very well informed on this subject, I guess that doesnt mean much unless you have the solution. So the ball is your court, we are leaving the EU what would you do and why? - be as long and winding as you like

Ignoring your obvious ironic and patronising tone, I voted to remain and would still vote remain now so clearly my preference is for as little detachment from the European Union as possible, there really isn't any way I can extend my answer beyond that - if there is little point Corbyn telling everyone what he might or might not do then there is definitely no point me doing it. This is precisely what we have though, a lot of people who don't want to leave deciding how we will. This is why complex issues like this should be decided via a general election where each party is clear on their position and not by a referendum.

[Eric Cartman]

Haha - me patronising - from you, that is the definition of irony mate.

But being all serious for second, imagine you are the PM, it doesnt matter what party you are, your c0ck is on the block.
The country you are in charge of has voted Leave, it is your job to deliver that, customs union, no free movement of people, immigration , Irish border, trade, WTO etc.

What would you do, no need to reference Jezza, Boris, May, Gove, Blair etc -what solution would you deliver to the country. Saying as 'little detachment as possible' is about as meaningful as Brexit is Brexit, Brexit for Britain etc.

ps We had a general election about 6 months ago, I dont recall any party making it a second referendum election, or any party setting out a clear definition of their version of Brexit.

Explain the point of me doing it and then I might give it a go.

[Eric Cartman]

ps We had a general election about 6 months ago, I dont recall any party making it a second referendum election, or any party setting out a clear definition of their version of Brexit.

Exactly, but I think you have missed the point. The day after the referendum the key leavers all made there excuses and disappeared. If a government is formed around a pledge to leave the EU, the key positions will be held by people who actually think it is a good idea.

[Eric Cartman]

In the other thread (I presume you are referring to the grooming gang thread) you framed your entire position around the supposition that the people you were having the discussion with didn't want to accept the facts that were being presented, if you look back you will see that no one at any point in the thread gave you any reason to think that. You were effectively arguing with somebody who, in that sphere, didn't exist.

The point I was trying to make was that 'knowing' that a certain subsection of society commits a certain crime at an increased frequency tells us absolutely nothing and it doesn't provide you with the tools to do anything productive at all. In that instance the main question I would want to answer with research would be 'why do these men feel so comfortable revealing their illegal desires to one another', effectively where/how/why is that relationship formed.

If you can't see the difference between your entries in that thread and mine in this thread then there probably isn't much further ground to cover.

[life on mars]

Lets just practise protectionism

[Eric Cartman]

Eric get everything else out of your mind, dont worry about other threads, just say what you would do re your solution to Brexit. Im watching sky news at the moment they are discussing brexit etc, what would you do in Eric's Govt?
If you dont have a solution etc then just say so, I dont have a solution as for every IN argument I can see an OUT argument and vice verse.

Re your point above - for that to happen you would have to abolish Labour and the Conservatives and form 3 new parties. The Leavers and The Remainers and the 'inbetweeners'. Seeing as people voted Leave and you found yourself as PM what specific policies would you impose - customs union (and no trade deals) what about EFTA, or hard brexit,let us know - I would be genuinely interested.

I would be honest with people.

We have very few options, one is no deal (potentially bad economically) and a hard border between Northern Ireland and the ROI, alternative end of the spectrum (soft) means member of the single market but continuation of free movement (a la Norway). There is no magic middle ground - Labours position is a vague attempt to find one but that is where is becomes unfathomable to me. These are all options that nobody specifically voted for so it seems like it is time for a second referendum (because they are great) to clarify the public position (Norway, Nothing and hard border in NI or Remain). UK votes to remain, government and opposition breathe a sigh of relief, EU would welcome us with open arms and WalesBales (edit/ sorry WalesBales and Mrs R!! ) were right all along.

I would just like our politicians to stop pretending they can deliver things that are impossible.

[Wales-Bales]

Exactly, but I think you have missed the point. The day after the referendum the key leavers all made there excuses and disappeared. If a government is formed around a pledge to leave the EU, the key positions will be held by people who actually think it is a good idea.

The same key leavers also fell on their swords and allowed May to assume the role of PM unopposed, which prevented the grassroot Tory members from having a vote on the matter.

[Wales-Bales]

I would be honest with people.

We have very few options, one is no deal (potentially bad economically) and a hard border between Northern Ireland and the ROI, alternative end of the spectrum (soft) means member of the single market but continuation of free movement (a la Norway). There is no magic middle ground - Labours position is a vague attempt to find one but that is where is becomes unfathomable to me. These are all options that nobody specifically voted for so it seems like it is time for a second referendum (because they are great) to clarify the public position (Norway, Nothing and hard border in NI or Remain). UK votes to remain, government and opposition breathe a sigh of relief, EU would welcome us with open arms and WalesBales (edit/ sorry WalesBales and Mrs R!! ) were right all along.

I would just like our politicians to stop pretending they can deliver things that are impossible.

Yep, and if the second referendum doesn't work, we can always have a third and a fourth referendum

[Eric Cartman]

The same key leavers also fell on their swords and allowed May to assume the role of PM unopposed, which prevented the grassroot Tory members from having a vote on the matter.

That is exactly what happened.

[Eric Cartman]

Yep, and if the second referendum doesn't work, we can always have a third and a fourth referendum

Sounds fun, best of 7 I think would be good.

[Wales-Bales]

That is exactly what happened.

Don't forget the embellished CV that finished off Leadsom, yet everybody got a place in the cabinet.