Club Debt

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

Seems to be a bit of an obsession here with the headline figures.

Accounts can often be totally misleading and hide a multitude of things.

Even then it's extremely complicated. Keith's explanation and also his comparison with City vs Bristol, Birmingham and Villa needs to be taken as a whole.

Unfortunately that takes a hell of a lot more thought and many many more words than is suitable for a messageboard and no disrespect meant but at least 90% of people still won't understand it, despite the excellent job Keith has done, because it really isn't a simple thing to understand.

One thing that is clear is we've been technically bankrupt for the best part of 30 years, maybe longer, and still are.

For the first time we have an owner who can actually cover the debt.

We aren't necessarily secure as one simple change of mind from Tan and we are back up shit creek.

Same goes for most other Championship clubs and many in the other divisions of the football pyramid too.

Ah, the old "It's worse at other clubs" or "it's the same everywhere" bat away. Nothing to see here, move on.

[blue matt]

Seems to be a bit of an obsession here with the headline figures.

Accounts can often be totally misleading and hide a multitude of things.

Even then it's extremely complicated. Keith's explanation and also his comparison with City vs Bristol, Birmingham and Villa needs to be taken as a whole.

Unfortunately that takes a hell of a lot more thought and many many more words than is suitable for a messageboard and no disrespect meant but at least 90% of people still won't understand it, despite the excellent job Keith has done, because it really isn't a simple thing to understand.

One thing that is clear is we've been technically bankrupt for the best part of 30 years, maybe longer, and still are.

For the first time we have an owner who can actually cover the debt.

We aren't necessarily secure as one simple change of mind from Tan and we are back up shit creek.

Same goes for most other Championship clubs and many in the other divisions of the football pyramid too.

we can also do nothing about it

When Scam was around, I learnt i couldnt change anything about the debts racking up, though we were " family " and Scam would hurt his family

The the Riddler arrived, once again, nothing we could really do about the situation

Now we are talking 100 mill, its gone past the point of no return

as i said, enjoy the ride or dont, buy why worry about it

[dml1954]

Ah, the old "It's worse at other clubs" or "it's the same everywhere" bat away. Nothing to see here, move on.

But - it is, it is and there isnt. So why dont you move on ?.

[Lawnmower]

Ah, the old "It's worse at other clubs" or "it's the same everywhere" bat away. Nothing to see here, move on.

Sort of ignorant response I'd expect from you.

Care to explain what the accounting standard changes were that contributed an extra £5m to the loss ?

[life on mars]

It's a profit and loss business ,with ridiculous sways of costs such as wages and transfer fees accelerating year on year way beyond any type of inflation target , you have very little chance of ever budgeting accurately or delivering your business model as you would a normal business which has far better fixed assets ,wages and selling commodity opportunity .

In football your in the hands of highly paid footballers , volatile transfer fees, fickle fans , merchandising and TV monies, if your unsuccessful those assets crush you , if your successful you have to overspend, in my books Tan has a far better grip on this then any of us, and lets not forget he entered this business with zero football experience.

[Feedback]

Sort of ignorant response I'd expect from you.

Care to explain what the accounting standard changes were that contributed an extra £5m to the loss ?

Without looking I would say the move to FRS102

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

Sort of ignorant response I'd expect from you.

Care to explain what the accounting standard changes were that contributed an extra £5m to the loss ?

I don't need to - Wolves' had £7m standard charges, so there's no need to question Cardiff's because it is worse elsewhere (this is known as Lawnmower logic, aka burying head in sand).

[ken smith]

It's a pretty poor one to be honest, but at least you didn't compare the football club to an ex-girlfriend I suppose.

You claim my posts don't concern you, yet you seem very keen to analyse them and question them. Don't you think people would consider that odd? I would call it a bit strange, anyway.

Incidentally, regarding your desperate analogy, in fact I haven't asked to see the accounts of a football club I hate. Firstly, if I wanted a copy of the club's accounts I could simply download one. Doing so is a piece of piss. I've done it many times in the past. Secondly, I don't hate Cardiff City.

All I've done is ask a mate (who is knowledgeable about such matters) a couple of questions that I will no doubt be asked myself at some point during the next couple of weeks.

I have respect for you, but why would you watch 8 games in the last 2 season if you now hate the club?

[ken smith]

I don't need to - Wolves' had £7m standard charges, so there's no need to question Cardiff's because it is worse elsewhere (this is known as Lawnmower logic, aka burying head in sand).

If you don't know what they are, how can you accuse him of burying his head in the sand?

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

If you don't know what they are, how can you accuse him of burying his head in the sand?

Because Tan (the bloke you hated for 5 games) claimed in 2016 he was converting £68m of debt to equity. Tan also claimed a few weeks after the club failed to win promotion in 2012 (something that prompted you to get a refund) that the club would be debt free within 5 years. These two things are being ignored by the lawnmower and that is why I use the "burying head in sand" analogy.

Are you planning on getting a refund this summer if Cardiff don't go up - just like you did in 2012?

[ken smith]

Because Tano (the bloke you hated for 5 games) claimed in 2016 he was converting £68m of debt to equity. Tan also claimed a few weeks after the club failed to win promotion in 2012 (something that prompted you to get a refund) that the club would be debt free within 5 years. These two things are being ignored by the lawnmower and that is why I use the "burying head in sand" analogy.

Are you planning on getting a refund this summer if Cardiff don't go up - just like you did in 2012?

Think you need to have a lie down. I only pick up on you because you keep having a go at Posters because you feel self righteous despite doing nothing yourself. I have never had a go at any one for keeping going even back then and never imposed my views on anyone. I also don't feel the need to justify any decision I make in my life to a stranger on the Internet either.

At the beginning of the season you accused me of laughing at people who stopped going which clearly shows that you didn't know anything about what I did back then which is why I said about refund despite it happening 5 1/2 years prior. I'll keep going as long as the social aspect is there. If you had friends I think you would still be going down. Reckon I've been a season ticket holder longer than you as well.

[The Lone Gunman]

I have respect for you, but why would you watch 8 games in the last 2 season if you now hate the club?

In the post you replied to (and actually quoted), I clearly stated that I don't hate Cardiff City. Did you actually bother to read it before replying?

[Feedback]

In the post you replied to (and actually quoted), I clearly stated that I don't hate Cardiff City. Did you actually bother to read it before replying?

Of course he read it. You should watch the Jordan Peterson interview so you can understand the futility of creating a straw man that clearly doesn't exist.

[ken smith]

In the post you replied to (and actually quoted), I clearly stated that I don't hate Cardiff City. Did you actually bother to read it before replying?

I read it as you haven't asked to see the accounts of a team you hate.

Meaning you hate Cardiff and you have not asked to see our accounts.

I stand corrected on what you were saying though.

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

Think you need to have a lie down. I only pick up on you because you keep having a go at Posters because you feel self righteous despite doing nothing yourself. I have never had a go at any one for keeping going even back then and never imposed my views on anyone. I also don't feel the need to justify any decision I make in my life to a stranger on the Internet either.

At the beginning of the season you accused me of laughing at people who stopped going which clearly shows that you didn't know anything about what I did back then which is why I said about refund despite it happening 5 1/2 years prior. I'll keep going as long as the social aspect is there. If you had friends I think you would still be going down. Reckon I've been a season ticket holder longer than you as well.

You don't need to justify your refund request to me, although your protest happened at a convenient time post play off heartache and pre start of promotion run. It's odd, though, that you feel I need to justify myself to you. You are also asking another poster here to justify his decision to attend 8 games. The same poster asked for a refund, but didn't run back to the club following a few wins.

The claim that I "did nothing" is amusing considering I have not spent a penny at the club since the rebrand, didn't renew for the PL, got stung because I thought there would be protests in the ground and I wanted to be a part of that. I cannot support the club with Tan at the helm, and will not entertain the thought of attending until he has gone. He hasn't kept up his side of the bargain, despite numerous assurances that debt would be converted to equity, he hasn't made much progress.

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

Of course he read it. You should watch the Jordan Peterson interview so you can understand the futility of creating a straw man that clearly doesn't exist.

Plenty of straw men here, always tends to go that way when certain questions are asked.

Like - why isn't Tan converting debt to equity?

[ken smith]

You don't need to justify your refund request to me, although your protest happened at a convenient time post play off heartache and pre start of promotion run. It's odd, though, that you feel I need to justify myself to you. You are also asking another poster here to justify his decision to attend 8 games. The same poster asked for a refund, but didn't run back to the club following a few wins.

The claim that I "did nothing" is amusing considering I have not spent a penny at the club since the rebrand, didn't renew for the PL, got stung because I thought there would be protests in the ground and I wanted to be a part of that. I cannot support the club with Tan at the helm, and will not entertain the thought of attending until he has gone. He hasn't kept up his side of the bargain, despite numerous assurances that debt would be converted to equity, he hasn't made much progress.

You don't have to justify your stance. I get it. However, others don't have to justify theirs to you. The only time I have a go at you is when you have a go at others. I'm like a modern day Robin Hood.

You have been fairly consistent with your stance from Premier League season onwards, but you use this to beat other opinions down.
I enjoy going down this season as much as any time after the Eddie May years. Football isn't pretty at times, crowds aren't great, but we're back in blue and there is a togetherness again among the fan-base which has been missing since your days.

I think, you should give one game a go and see if there's any feelings left.

[StraightOuttaCanton]

Every time I read these posts from the sour patch kids (and there have been many cut and paste masterpieces over the years) it always makes me think of the work of Carol Dweck on what she calls ‘Mindsets’. Look her up boys - it may change your lives

[Feedback]

Plenty of straw men here, always tends to go that way when certain questions are asked.

Like - why isn't Tan converting debt to equity?

as principal debt and equity holder, he doesn't need to.

[The Lone Gunman]

Of course he read it. You should watch the Jordan Peterson interview so you can understand the futility of creating a straw man that clearly doesn't exist.

Very profound, I'm sure. To be honest, I haven't a clue what you're gibbering about but I'm sure it sounded impressive to you.

[Feedback]

Very profound, I'm sure. To be honest, I haven't a clue what you're gibbering about but I'm sure it sounded impressive to you.

it was more observant than impressive.

have a nice day.

[The Lone Gunman]

Every time I read these posts from the sour patch kids (and there have been many cut and paste masterpieces over the years) it always makes me think of the work of Carol Dweck on what she calls ‘Mindsets’. Look her up boys - it may change your lives

I'm on a year-long course in work at the moment, during which I've had to listen to a couple of podcasts featuring Carol Dweck. As I recall, she was droning on about growth mindsets, fixed mindsets, etc. Not only does she have a seriously irritating voice, but the content of those podcasts weren't up to much as far as I was concerned. They certainly weren't life-changing in any way, but each to their own.

[The Lone Gunman]

it was more observant than impressive.

That's one way to describe it.

[dml1954]

Plenty of straw men here, always tends to go that way when certain questions are asked.

Like - why isn't Tan converting debt to equity?

He is (another £10m in the latest accounts) and he is also not charging interest on his remaining debt. That blows your arguments right out of the water. Are you going to come back now - no I didnt think so, because you will just find something else to complain about.

[jamieccfc]

It's a pretty poor one to be honest, but at least you didn't compare the football club to an ex-girlfriend I suppose.

You claim my posts don't concern you, yet you seem very keen to analyse them and question them. Don't you think people would consider that odd? I would call it a bit strange, anyway.

Incidentally, regarding your desperate analogy, in fact I haven't asked to see the accounts of a football club I hate. Firstly, if I wanted a copy of the club's accounts I could simply download one. Doing so is a piece of piss. I've done it many times in the past. Secondly, I don't hate Cardiff City.

All I've done is ask a mate (who is knowledgeable about such matters) a couple of questions that I will no doubt be asked myself at some point during the next couple of weeks.

Will you ever go back to watching every game?