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Thread: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

  1. #1

    4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Including our goalkeeper. Seems a funny time of the season to be trying out players, unless they've been released early by other clubs.

  2. #2

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Worth a gamble,got nothing to loose , could be youngsters seeing our stock rise fancying a punt?

  3. #3

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by emjayblue View Post
    Including our goalkeeper. Seems a funny time of the season to be trying out players, unless they've been released early by other clubs.


    Par for the course these days. More often than not it's a bit of a mess when that many trialists are playing, it doesn't seem to benefit anyone. To have a fairly settled team and style of play would make it easier to accommodate a couple of new lads but there doesn't seem to be a recognisable system any more and the continual line-up changes make the whole thing very disjointed.

    There seems to be a move towards playing in a more direct way but it doesn't suit the players we have and I guess it's hard to organise stuff like pressing and counter-attacking with so many new faces each week. In the last couple of home games we've had midfielders dropping back to take the ball off the keeper at times (James Waite and, tonight, trialist Chris Regis) which I'm fine with but even the regular players must wonder how we're meant to be playing.

    Regis was quite impressive tonight, easy to believe he has been at Arsenal and Southampton's academies, but apparently has an attitude problem and has turned 21 without getting anywhere (he's being released by Port Vale from what I can make out). The other trialists didn't stand out, the keeper gave the first goal away by kicking it at the advancing striker and the rebound went straight in.

    James Waite, as usual, was the stand out player. Some magical touches from him and a great shot which hit the bar but a 2-0 defeat was about right. Lots of injuries at that level (another one tonight as Connor Young went off early) but it seems crazy to just have one outfield sub for a home game. I can't work out what's happening, hopefully all will become clear as time goes on but this season has been a bit of a washout.

  4. #4

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Loramski View Post
    Par for the course these days. More often than not it's a bit of a mess when that many trialists are playing, it doesn't seem to benefit anyone. To have a fairly settled team and style of play would make it easier to accommodate a couple of new lads but there doesn't seem to be a recognisable system any more and the continual line-up changes make the whole thing very disjointed.

    There seems to be a move towards playing in a more direct way but it doesn't suit the players we have and I guess it's hard to organise stuff like pressing and counter-attacking with so many new faces each week. In the last couple of home games we've had midfielders dropping back to take the ball off the keeper at times (James Waite and, tonight, trialist Chris Regis) which I'm fine with but even the regular players must wonder how we're meant to be playing.

    Regis was quite impressive tonight, easy to believe he has been at Arsenal and Southampton's academies, but apparently has an attitude problem and has turned 21 without getting anywhere (he's being released by Port Vale from what I can make out). The other trialists didn't stand out, the keeper gave the first goal away by kicking it at the advancing striker and the rebound went straight in.

    James Waite, as usual, was the stand out player. Some magical touches from him and a great shot which hit the bar but a 2-0 defeat was about right. Lots of injuries at that level (another one tonight as Connor Young went off early) but it seems crazy to just have one outfield sub for a home game. I can't work out what's happening, hopefully all will become clear as time goes on but this season has been a bit of a washout.
    Thanks for the report it does seem a miss match of a season .

  5. #5

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    I wonder whether our under 23’s team is now just a waste of money, we rarely use them in the first team and free transfers are always available to boost the first team?

  6. #6

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Thanks Loramski

    I find this quite concerning. The U23's should be the pathway to the first team, either promising younger talent or first team players returning to fitness and given the size of our squad when all are fit i'm not sure why those currently on the periphery are not being used as part of the 3 over age rule.

    Furthermore, for the Management to not have a game plan alongside that of our first team seems bizarre to say the least. I would have thought Warnock and co would've implemented a structure long before now that at the end of the day will only enhance the opportunities of more players at first team level.

  7. #7

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by emjayblue View Post
    Thanks Loramski

    I find this quite concerning. The U23's should be the pathway to the first team, either promising younger talent or first team players returning to fitness and given the size of our squad when all are fit i'm not sure why those currently on the periphery are not being used as part of the 3 over age rule.

    Furthermore, for the Management to not have a game plan alongside that of our first team seems bizarre to say the least. I would have thought Warnock and co would've implemented a structure long before now that at the end of the day will only enhance the opportunities of more players at first team level.
    It's such a tough one. We haven't been producing many first teamers from the youth set-up in recent years but they've always tried to play the right way at that level. If Warnock's here for a while though, what's the point of producing 'nice' footballers? It would seem logical to play in a more basic style at all levels so there's more chance of youngsters making the first team but that would be a big price to pay in the long run. For example, if we stop taking overlapping full backs, ball playing centre halves, technically gifted midfielders etc at a young age and look for something a bit more agricultural instead, it will be a long process to reverse that when Warnock goes.

    The transition at under-23 level is painful to watch, as TOBW explains very well in the under-18s thread. Hopefully there's method in the madness somewhere but I'm not sure where the club is going with this. I'd like to think that it's just a short term attempt to produce Warnock-style players before our talented under-18s come through together and start pushing for first team places under the next manager. That would be fair enough I suppose, we just have to make sure we don't let some talented youngsters slip away in the meantime just because their faces don't fit for now.

    Here's the 40 pass goal from the under-23s, just over a year ago now. It doesn't look like this any more, that's for sure.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4557bLrXRQ

  8. #8

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Loramski View Post
    It's such a tough one. We haven't been producing many first teamers from the youth set-up in recent years but they've always tried to play the right way at that level. If Warnock's here for a while though, what's the point of producing 'nice' footballers? It would seem logical to play in a more basic style at all levels so there's more chance of youngsters making the first team but that would be a big price to pay in the long run. For example, if we stop taking overlapping full backs, ball playing centre halves, technically gifted midfielders etc at a young age and look for something a bit more agricultural instead, it will be a long process to reverse that when Warnock goes.

    The transition at under-23 level is painful to watch, as TOBW explains very well in the under-18s thread. Hopefully there's method in the madness somewhere but I'm not sure where the club is going with this. I'd like to think that it's just a short term attempt to produce Warnock-style players before our talented under-18s come through together and start pushing for first team places under the next manager. That would be fair enough I suppose, we just have to make sure we don't let some talented youngsters slip away in the meantime just because their faces don't fit for now.

    Here's the 40 pass goal from the under-23s, just over a year ago now. It doesn't look like this any more, that's for sure.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4557bLrXRQ
    Thanks for explaining that in such detail and so eloquently.

    Not as straight forward as I had thought then and a bit of a catch 22. It appears we either go with a short term plan that will stifle talent for a couple of years at U23 level whilst under Warnocks tenure and hope that our next manager (possibly Bellamy)will then be able to take advantage of the current U18's aged about 20 as part of his first team squad. The problem with that is you've got to keep them happy for a couple of years on the periphery of things is an U23 setup that is disjointed. As it stands currently, all Bellamy's forward thinking and good practices at U18 level is likely to be undone by the time his current crop are representing the U23's.

  9. #9

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by emjayblue View Post
    Thanks for explaining that in such detail and so eloquently.

    Not as straight forward as I had thought then and a bit of a catch 22. It appears we either go with a short term plan that will stifle talent for a couple of years at U23 level whilst under Warnocks tenure and hope that our next manager (possibly Bellamy)will then be able to take advantage of the current U18's aged about 20 as part of his first team squad. The problem with that is you've got to keep them happy for a couple of years on the periphery of things is an U23 setup that is disjointed. As it stands currently, all Bellamy's forward thinking and good practices at U18 level is likely to be undone by the time his current crop are representing the U23's.
    Equally. we've heard about amazing crops for year after year. The fact very few go on to achieve anything of note at league level ( certainly not at Championship level ) indicates we've had endless prospects simply not up to it but looking great as kids at own age group.

  10. #10

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    Equally. we've heard about amazing crops for year after year. The fact very few go on to achieve anything of note at league level ( certainly not at Championship level ) indicates we've had endless prospects simply not up to it but looking great as kids at own age group.
    Good point, i'm scratching my head to think of any player we've released in recent times that has gone on and flourished. Was listening to Kevin Campbell in the week talking about his son who was at the Academy at Man City and he broke all goal scoring records at that level but refreshingly decided to jump off the gravy train (Kevin explained their salaries even at that level were massive) as he could see his pathway to the first team was always going to be blocked and has since joined Stoke City and furthermore has appeared in the premier league for them recently as a sub. It makes you think that the last real prospect that I was aware of Rabbi Montero (sp) will end up suffering a similar fate. From reading TOBW's blogs on Academy games I think we have a couple of good prospects currently, but as you say our record with prospects and them actually fulfilling their potential is abysmal.

  11. #11

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    What sort of setup were we using when the likes of Ledley, Gunter and Ramsey came through?

    Whatever that was, it was working.

  12. #12

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Ramsey aside, who is a one off, what levels did the others come through at? Certainly wasn't Championship level. It's easier to bring youngsters into the first team at lower levels.

  13. #13

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    Ramsey aside, who is a one off, what levels did the others come through at? Certainly wasn't Championship level. It's easier to bring youngsters into the first team at lower levels.
    Ledley and Gunter came through at Championship level.

  14. #14

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Sensible View Post
    Ledley and Gunter came through at Championship level.
    Hmm, pretty definite they were playing for us before Championship? Or am I underestimating how long we'd been in the Championship?

  15. #15

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    Hmm, pretty definite they were playing for us before Championship? Or am I underestimating how long we'd been in the Championship?
    I certainly only remember them playing championship football.

  16. #16

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life View Post
    Hmm, pretty definite they were playing for us before Championship? Or am I underestimating how long we'd been in the Championship?
    I thought we was in league 1

  17. #17

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by jamieccfc View Post
    I thought we was in league 1
    Definitely not, Ledley made his debut in 2004, Gunter in 2006 - we were last in League One in 2003.

    I'd add Darcy Blake (who didn't make it because of his lifestyle rather than his football) and Adam Matthews to any list of good players we've produced - Cameron Jerome and Joe Ralls spent at least some of their development time with us as well.

  18. #18

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Definitely not, Ledley made his debut in 2004, Gunter in 2006 - we were last in League One in 2003.

    I'd add Darcy Blake (who didn't make it because of his lifestyle rather than his football) and Adam Matthews to any list of good players we've produced - Cameron Jerome and Joe Ralls spent at least some of their development time with us as well.
    I thought Gunter might've been championship but really thought ledley was league 1 worst lb ever

  19. #19

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Fantastic thread.

    Really interesting.

    I think the development squad is still transitioning and we will see less trialists next year as it starts taking shape. I hope so anyway, the development team needs consistency with coaches being allowed to work with the set-up and individuals. It does seem a bit of an eclectic mix at the moment and I worry that some players, like Waite, won't thrive like they need to.

  20. #20

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by jamieccfc View Post
    I thought Gunter might've been championship but really thought ledley was league 1 worst lb ever
    Ledley came through after we sold Kav in our second season in the Championship. Ledley made his debut in 04/05, when he was 17. We got promoted in 02/03.

  21. #21

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Definitely not, Ledley made his debut in 2004, Gunter in 2006 - we were last in League One in 2003.

    I'd add Darcy Blake (who didn't make it because of his lifestyle rather than his football) and Adam Matthews to any list of good players we've produced - Cameron Jerome and Joe Ralls spent at least some of their development time with us as well.
    As much as his lifestyle issues, I think Darcy Blake was held back by being a bit of a jack of all trades, without ever really nailing down a position as his own.
    He played at centre back, fullback, in midfield and even in the wing.
    Was ok on the ball without really having the quality to excel at this level in midfield, not electric pace, solid defensively but perhaps a bit small to excel at centre back in a physical league.
    Perhaps he could have ultimately carved out a living as a Gary medel kind of player, either sitting Infront of he back 4, playing simple passes, or as part of a back 3, but we weren't playing with that kind of role at the time

  22. #22

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    As much as his lifestyle issues, I think Darcy Blake was held back by being a bit of a jack of all trades, without ever really nailing down a position as his own.
    He played at centre back, fullback, in midfield and even in the wing.
    Was ok on the ball without really having the quality to excel at this level in midfield, not electric pace, solid defensively but perhaps a bit small to excel at centre back in a physical league.
    Perhaps he could have ultimately carved out a living as a Gary medel kind of player, either sitting Infront of he back 4, playing simple passes, or as part of a back 3, but we weren't playing with that kind of role at the time
    If it wasn't for that post he would've scored the greatest goal of all time

  23. #23

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    Fantastic thread.

    Really interesting.

    I think the development squad is still transitioning and we will see less trialists next year as it starts taking shape. I hope so anyway, the development team needs consistency with coaches being allowed to work with the set-up and individuals. It does seem a bit of an eclectic mix at the moment and I worry that some players, like Waite, won't thrive like they need to.
    I enjoy watching Waite play so I would really like him to make it, but, primarily down to the way the Under 23 side has operated this season as far as I'm concerned, I don't see any signs of career development from him in the past twelve months - sadly, I'd say he is the most UnWarnock type player (if that makes sense) on our books currently.

  24. #24

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Loramski View Post
    It's such a tough one. We haven't been producing many first teamers from the youth set-up in recent years but they've always tried to play the right way at that level. If Warnock's here for a while though, what's the point of producing 'nice' footballers? It would seem logical to play in a more basic style at all levels so there's more chance of youngsters making the first team but that would be a big price to pay in the long run. For example, if we stop taking overlapping full backs, ball playing centre halves, technically gifted midfielders etc at a young age and look for something a bit more agricultural instead, it will be a long process to reverse that when Warnock goes.

    The transition at under-23 level is painful to watch, as TOBW explains very well in the under-18s thread. Hopefully there's method in the madness somewhere but I'm not sure where the club is going with this. I'd like to think that it's just a short term attempt to produce Warnock-style players before our talented under-18s come through together and start pushing for first team places under the next manager. That would be fair enough I suppose, we just have to make sure we don't let some talented youngsters slip away in the meantime just because their faces don't fit for now.

    Here's the 40 pass goal from the under-23s, just over a year ago now. It doesn't look like this any more, that's for sure.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4557bLrXRQ
    The thought occurs to me that if the Development team keeps on "progressing" as it has done this season, then will it start impacting on the type and quality of young player being attracted to the club? I don't like saying it, but natural footballers like Waite and Veale are better off elsewhere at the moment really.

  25. #25

    Re: 4 trialists start for our U23 Development Squad tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    As much as his lifestyle issues, I think Darcy Blake was held back by being a bit of a jack of all trades, without ever really nailing down a position as his own.
    He played at centre back, fullback, in midfield and even in the wing.
    Was ok on the ball without really having the quality to excel at this level in midfield, not electric pace, solid defensively but perhaps a bit small to excel at centre back in a physical league.
    Perhaps he could have ultimately carved out a living as a Gary medel kind of player, either sitting Infront of he back 4, playing simple passes, or as part of a back 3, but we weren't playing with that kind of role at the time
    Blake was tried in lots of places because he wasn't actually very good. He's probably best at centre back but he was only 5'10. His distribution was poor though, and ultimately he failed because he didn't look after himself. There's been lots of rumours about his lifestyle and I think most seem to be true. He was one of the players our fans really took to despite other local lads such as Ledley regularly getting pelters.

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