Including our goalkeeper. Seems a funny time of the season to be trying out players, unless they've been released early by other clubs.
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Including our goalkeeper. Seems a funny time of the season to be trying out players, unless they've been released early by other clubs.
Worth a gamble,got nothing to loose , could be youngsters seeing our stock rise fancying a punt?
Originally Posted by emjayblue
Par for the course these days. More often than not it's a bit of a mess when that many trialists are playing, it doesn't seem to benefit anyone. To have a fairly settled team and style of play would make it easier to accommodate a couple of new lads but there doesn't seem to be a recognisable system any more and the continual line-up changes make the whole thing very disjointed.
There seems to be a move towards playing in a more direct way but it doesn't suit the players we have and I guess it's hard to organise stuff like pressing and counter-attacking with so many new faces each week. In the last couple of home games we've had midfielders dropping back to take the ball off the keeper at times (James Waite and, tonight, trialist Chris Regis) which I'm fine with but even the regular players must wonder how we're meant to be playing.
Regis was quite impressive tonight, easy to believe he has been at Arsenal and Southampton's academies, but apparently has an attitude problem and has turned 21 without getting anywhere (he's being released by Port Vale from what I can make out). The other trialists didn't stand out, the keeper gave the first goal away by kicking it at the advancing striker and the rebound went straight in.
James Waite, as usual, was the stand out player. Some magical touches from him and a great shot which hit the bar but a 2-0 defeat was about right. Lots of injuries at that level (another one tonight as Connor Young went off early) but it seems crazy to just have one outfield sub for a home game. I can't work out what's happening, hopefully all will become clear as time goes on but this season has been a bit of a washout.
Thanks for the report it does seem a miss match of a season .
I wonder whether our under 23’s team is now just a waste of money, we rarely use them in the first team and free transfers are always available to boost the first team?
Thanks Loramski
I find this quite concerning. The U23's should be the pathway to the first team, either promising younger talent or first team players returning to fitness and given the size of our squad when all are fit i'm not sure why those currently on the periphery are not being used as part of the 3 over age rule.
Furthermore, for the Management to not have a game plan alongside that of our first team seems bizarre to say the least. I would have thought Warnock and co would've implemented a structure long before now that at the end of the day will only enhance the opportunities of more players at first team level.
It's such a tough one. We haven't been producing many first teamers from the youth set-up in recent years but they've always tried to play the right way at that level. If Warnock's here for a while though, what's the point of producing 'nice' footballers? It would seem logical to play in a more basic style at all levels so there's more chance of youngsters making the first team but that would be a big price to pay in the long run. For example, if we stop taking overlapping full backs, ball playing centre halves, technically gifted midfielders etc at a young age and look for something a bit more agricultural instead, it will be a long process to reverse that when Warnock goes.
The transition at under-23 level is painful to watch, as TOBW explains very well in the under-18s thread. Hopefully there's method in the madness somewhere but I'm not sure where the club is going with this. I'd like to think that it's just a short term attempt to produce Warnock-style players before our talented under-18s come through together and start pushing for first team places under the next manager. That would be fair enough I suppose, we just have to make sure we don't let some talented youngsters slip away in the meantime just because their faces don't fit for now.
Here's the 40 pass goal from the under-23s, just over a year ago now. It doesn't look like this any more, that's for sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4557bLrXRQ
Thanks for explaining that in such detail and so eloquently.
Not as straight forward as I had thought then and a bit of a catch 22. It appears we either go with a short term plan that will stifle talent for a couple of years at U23 level whilst under Warnocks tenure and hope that our next manager (possibly Bellamy)will then be able to take advantage of the current U18's aged about 20 as part of his first team squad. The problem with that is you've got to keep them happy for a couple of years on the periphery of things is an U23 setup that is disjointed. As it stands currently, all Bellamy's forward thinking and good practices at U18 level is likely to be undone by the time his current crop are representing the U23's.
Equally. we've heard about amazing crops for year after year. The fact very few go on to achieve anything of note at league level ( certainly not at Championship level ) indicates we've had endless prospects simply not up to it but looking great as kids at own age group.
Good point, i'm scratching my head to think of any player we've released in recent times that has gone on and flourished. Was listening to Kevin Campbell in the week talking about his son who was at the Academy at Man City and he broke all goal scoring records at that level but refreshingly decided to jump off the gravy train (Kevin explained their salaries even at that level were massive) as he could see his pathway to the first team was always going to be blocked and has since joined Stoke City and furthermore has appeared in the premier league for them recently as a sub. It makes you think that the last real prospect that I was aware of Rabbi Montero (sp) will end up suffering a similar fate. From reading TOBW's blogs on Academy games I think we have a couple of good prospects currently, but as you say our record with prospects and them actually fulfilling their potential is abysmal.
The thought occurs to me that if the Development team keeps on "progressing" as it has done this season, then will it start impacting on the type and quality of young player being attracted to the club? I don't like saying it, but natural footballers like Waite and Veale are better off elsewhere at the moment really.
It would've been good to see a couple of our youngsters go out on loan in January but no one seemed to want them which makes it hard for us, or anyone else, to say they should be involved in our first team set up, whichever way we're playing.
I take your first point. The weird thing is that so many of the trialists don't seem like Warnock-type players at all, most of them look like they'd be happy to play a possession based game but we now spend most of the time kicking it away even though there's never a target man to aim for. There's some muddled thinking going on. We drew 1-1 at Barnsley today, our goal was scored by Jason Akiotu, a left back who's been released by Palace and says David Alaba is his footballing role model. What's Warnock going to make of him? The mind boggles.
A couple of points in defence of the club here. Firstly, the injuries at that level have made it hard to have any kind of a settled side recently. An outfield 10 of Coxe, Brown, McKay, Abbruzzese, Obi, Veale, Duffus, McKay, Waite and Harris with players like Young, Humphries and Meite to come in would've been fine. Maybe it wasn't the plan to use this many trialists?
Secondly, the club have been very unlucky that three of our best talents, Waite, Abbruzzese and Veale, just haven't grown enough. I haven't seen quite enough of Veale to be sure but I think the other two are terrific players who would be playing first team football somewhere already if they'd filled out more. It'll be a great shame if Waite doesn't make it. I agree with you, he's always enjoyable to watch whatever nonsense is going on around him.
Looks like another of our released youngsters will make it according to Birmingham Mail, Villa have joined Celtic, Swansea and Bristol City are all interested in signing centre half ex Cardiff City Tom James. Declan John and Keith Poole now with Man Utd
Also look sure to have good career’s despite being rejected by us?
There seems to be a problem bringing our Academy players thro to 1st Team?
What sort of setup were we using when the likes of Ledley, Gunter and Ramsey came through?
Whatever that was, it was working.
Ramsey aside, who is a one off, what levels did the others come through at? Certainly wasn't Championship level. It's easier to bring youngsters into the first team at lower levels.
Ledley and Gunter came through at Championship level.
Hmm, pretty definite they were playing for us before Championship? Or am I underestimating how long we'd been in the Championship?
I certainly only remember them playing championship football.
I thought we was in league 1
Definitely not, Ledley made his debut in 2004, Gunter in 2006 - we were last in League One in 2003.
I'd add Darcy Blake (who didn't make it because of his lifestyle rather than his football) and Adam Matthews to any list of good players we've produced - Cameron Jerome and Joe Ralls spent at least some of their development time with us as well.
Declan John is playing for Rangers at a poor standard of football.
Tom James? Paper talk. Who knows how valid any interest is - and who would argue he's better at centre back or right back than what we have available in the first team squad?
Poole may make it, probably not with United as he'd have to be incredibly good given Utd can spend big money on other better players. Interestingly, at Northampton he's playing in midfield - doubt that would be happening without Man Utd's "permission" so maybe his development will be somewhat delayed by learning a new position. Again, at the back would he be better than what we have now?
Apparently the young lad Rabbi Matondo -who was poached by Man City for about half a mill- was the best prospect that we had since Aaron Ramsay, but don't quote me on that. It's frustrating not seeing any youngsters coming through. There are a fair few clubs that have academies just for the sake of it without producing any real talent, but we've always had young local lads making it in to the side.
I remember watching Ledley's home debut after we sold Kav and I was delighted to see him play despite having never heard of him before he was announced on the team sheet. I kept a keen eye on every young player's development even in those days and he still slipped under the radar for me, so perhaps there's another waiting (or Waite-ing) in the wings to break through....
I was surprised that semi ajayi wasn't kept on abd loaned out to develop. He almost looked good enough for the championship at 21 and central defenders don't peak until late 20s early 30s usually.
He seems to be one of the better defenders in league one already, and could have been ideal to step in once the likes of bamba start to decline.
He's a good example of the kind of player that the next manager might want even if Warnock didn't, he features in the 40 pass goal I put up earlier in the thread playing a couple of lovely balls out to the flanks. Too dreamy for Warnock (he seems to have had some more episodes of this recently as he's back on the bench at Rotherham for now) and centre half wasn't a big priority at the time so it was going to be tough for him to break through here. A shame as Warnock would seem like the ideal manager to sort out the concentration lapses he has.
A fifth successive win for the Under 18s this morning - 3-0 over Barnsley at Leckwith.
They made a poor start to the season, but turned it around with a winning run around the turn of the year and, with this latest lot of good results are challenging to finish third in their division which would be very good considering that they were without a win after their first six games as I recall - unfortunately, some of them will have to make the "step up" into the Development team next season.
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