HMRC help.

[Hot Shot Hamish.]

Looks like the issue hasn't been resolved after all

Had a letter today from HMRC saying..

''You told us that for the tax year 2017-2018 you no longer need to send us a Self Assessment tax return.
We agree and withdraw the notice to complete a tax return we sent you for 2017-2018.
The original deadline dates for paying any tax you owe will remain in force. Where the deadline dates have passed, we will charge you penalties and interest on any tax you owe us.''

Despite me telling them I have email conformation from them, thanking me for for telling them I had stopped my self employment in December 2014.

I was then passed to three different departments over a 55 minute phone call, to be told they would pass my details on to some other department that would look into this and call me back within the next 5 working days. I told them I'm a lorry driver and cant answer my phone when I'm driving.
I also asked why I was told it was resolved and they would reimburse me the money they had taken from me when I called them 8 days ago.

To me it seems a pretty straight forward error on their behalf, that I'm getting penalised for, and after 3 phone calls to try and resolve the matter it seems like I'm p1ssing in the wind.

Is this common practice with them, or am I just an unlucky one?

What they are doing there is procedural. They only issued the tax return for 17-18 a month ago but your conversation with them 8 days ago has meant that they've had to go through the process of cancelling the new return. What they told you last week about the penalties invoked for earlier years being cancelled is probably still correct, but they didn't want you to be in a similar situation this time next year for 2017/18

Also it's unusual for HMRC to deal by email. I've got a feeling that when you initially advised them that you ceased self employment, that the email back to you was from the national insurance department which works almost independently from the Self assessment crew as mad as that may sound. You often have to tell both departments separately.

[Former Labour leader]

Looks like the issue hasn't been resolved after all

Had a letter today from HMRC saying..

''You told us that for the tax year 2017-2018 you no longer need to send us a Self Assessment tax return.
We agree and withdraw the notice to complete a tax return we sent you for 2017-2018.
The original deadline dates for paying any tax you owe will remain in force. Where the deadline dates have passed, we will charge you penalties and interest on any tax you owe us.''

Despite me telling them I have email conformation from them, thanking me for for telling them I had stopped my self employment in December 2014.

I was then passed to three different departments over a 55 minute phone call, to be told they would pass my details on to some other department that would look into this and call me back within the next 5 working days. I told them I'm a lorry driver and cant answer my phone when I'm driving.
I also asked why I was told it was resolved and they would reimburse me the money they had taken from me when I called them 8 days ago.

To me it seems a pretty straight forward error on their behalf, that I'm getting penalised for, and after 3 phone calls to try and resolve the matter it seems like I'm p1ssing in the wind.

Is this common practice with them, or am I just an unlucky one?

Like I said earlier sometimes the only way to resolve a cock up is via your MP.

[Auntie Andy]

What they are doing there is procedural. They only issued the tax return for 17-18 a month ago but your conversation with them 8 days ago has meant that they've had to go through the process of cancelling the new return. What they told you last week about the penalties invoked for earlier years being cancelled is probably still correct, but they didn't want you to be in a similar situation this time next year for 2017/18

Also it's unusual for HMRC to deal by email. I've got a feeling that when you initially advised them that you ceased self employment, that the email back to you was from the national insurance department which works almost independently from the Self assessment crew as mad as that may sound. You often have to tell both departments separately.

As you say, this would be a standard letter but I would still follow it up with a complaint letter to make sure it’s sorted once and for all.

[valleys caveman]

What they are doing there is procedural. They only issued the tax return for 17-18 a month ago but your conversation with them 8 days ago has meant that they've had to go through the process of cancelling the new return. What they told you last week about the penalties invoked for earlier years being cancelled is probably still correct, but they didn't want you to be in a similar situation this time next year for 2017/18

Also it's unusual for HMRC to deal by email. I've got a feeling that when you initially advised them that you ceased self employment, that the email back to you was from the national insurance department which works almost independently from the Self assessment crew as mad as that may sound. You often have to tell both departments separately.

Surely completing and sending them a Cease Trading form via email at the end of December 2014 and them sending me one back thanking me for doing so should be all the proof they need?
They confirmed they could see my cease trading email when I spoke to them.

[valleys caveman]

I’m afraid it’s an absolute shambles. You have kids answering the phones who have probably only been there for a few weeks, reading off help cards, I kid you not. If you get through to an experienced member of staff you are lucky. They can’t keep staff because they pay them a pittance and the job is so stressful and difficult, they are leaving after a few weeks.

I would now write a letter of complaint and copy in your MP. Your letter will then be passed to an experience member of staff to deal with, hopefully.

I think you may be right, as the three time I've rang them I've had three different answers.
Phone call one; We can't do nothing for you. You'll have to fill in Self Assessment forms the the previous four years.
Phone call two; We can see you've signed off in 2014. We will send you a new tax code and reimburse you the money we've wrongly taken off you.
Phone call three; We'll pass this to another department and they'll ring you back in the next five working days.

[Hot Shot Hamish.]

Surely completing and sending them a Cease Trading form via email at the end of December 2014 and them sending me one back thanking me for doing so should be all the proof they need?
They confirmed they could see my cease trading email when I spoke to them.

You'd think so , but it would appear that the information doesn't transfer correctly from one computer system to another. Each morning this week I've had to ring HMRC to tell them that they've calculated clients tax and Nic incorrectly as they have failed to charge class 2 national insurance. On each occasion they have said that they didn't know the client was self employed, even though they have charged them class 4 Nic that you only pay if you are self employed. Work that out!! They then have to add that information was transferred onto a new computer system 2 years ago and some information was lost during the transfer. Doesn't exactly fill you with confidence.

At least sorting this out daily this week has stopped me from thinking too long about Sundays game.

[valleys caveman]

You'd think so , but it would appear that the information doesn't transfer correctly from one computer system to another. Each morning this week I've had to ring HMRC to tell them that they've calculated clients tax and Nic incorrectly as they have failed to charge class 2 national insurance. On each occasion they have said that they didn't know the client was self employed, even though they have charged them class 4 Nic that you only pay if you are self employed. Work that out!! They then have to add that information was transferred onto a new computer system 2 years ago and some information was lost during the transfer. Doesn't exactly fill you with confidence.

At least sorting this out daily this week has stopped me from thinking too long about Sundays game.

I can understand them making a mistake by thinking I was still self employed and hadn't filled in my Self Assessments for the previous few years, as we all make mistakes. What I can't understand is, me telling them I have a cease trading email off them thanking me for telling them I'd stopped being self employed, which they can see their end, and they're still not sorting it out.

[Feedback]

You are under no obligation to file a tax return since 2014/5. This is a straightforward appeal and HMRC will rescind the notice and cancel the penalties.

[Feedback]

Fill this out, if you haven't already..

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/short...m/CeaseTrading

And complete any outstanding returns from 2014 onwards.

Shit advice.

Do not submit any returns as that is acceptance a return is due.

[Feedback]

That's fair.

I would check your online account (personal tax account) to check if there's any outstanding returns. If there are, it's likely they've estimated the tax due and applied penalties for non-filing, and are collecting it all through PAYE.

Self assessment is a little out of my area of expertise, but this is what I assume is happening.

The estimated tax you should be able to sort out because it's just a case of filing nil returns for the years you weren't self employed, but the penalties you're likely going to need to appeal. Should you win, you will probably get it all back.

Whatever you do, don't do this.

If you file a return then you can only appeal any penalties on grounds of reasonable excuse.

The best course of action is to demonstrate no returns were due for each return period. The return period will be closed and the penalty and interest will fall off automatically.

PM me and I will point you in the right direction.

[Feedback]

Looks like the issue hasn't been resolved after all

Had a letter today from HMRC saying..

''You told us that for the tax year 2017-2018 you no longer need to send us a Self Assessment tax return.
We agree and withdraw the notice to complete a tax return we sent you for 2017-2018.
The original deadline dates for paying any tax you owe will remain in force. Where the deadline dates have passed, we will charge you penalties and interest on any tax you owe us.''

Despite me telling them I have email conformation from them, thanking me for for telling them I had stopped my self employment in December 2014.

I was then passed to three different departments over a 55 minute phone call, to be told they would pass my details on to some other department that would look into this and call me back within the next 5 working days. I told them I'm a lorry driver and cant answer my phone when I'm driving.
I also asked why I was told it was resolved and they would reimburse me the money they had taken from me when I called them 8 days ago.

To me it seems a pretty straight forward error on their behalf, that I'm getting penalised for, and after 3 phone calls to try and resolve the matter it seems like I'm p1ssing in the wind.

Is this common practice with them, or am I just an unlucky one?

This is common practice with HM Retards & Cretins. We deal with them daily and it's always entertaining when we school the taxman of the law.

Fortunately for you you have TMA1970 and plenty of FTT cases on your side.

I would hazard a guess you have been speaking to officers and not higher officers or managers. You need to go higher up (or get your accountant to write a letter explaining the law).

NO RETURN WAS DUE

[Feedback]

Surely completing and sending them a Cease Trading form via email at the end of December 2014 and them sending me one back thanking me for doing so should be all the proof they need?
They confirmed they could see my cease trading email when I spoke to them.

You are under no obligation to inform HMRC you have stopped trading. The only obligation is to inform HMRC if you need to file a tax return. The reason HMRC ask you to keep them updated is to avoid issues like this, which cost HMRC time and money to resolve.

You are on solid ground and as HSH and Auntie Andy have alluded to, you have been speaking with ill informed junior staff.

[Auntie Andy]

This is common practice with HM Retards & Cretins. We deal with them daily and it's always entertaining when we school the taxman of the law.

Fortunately for you you have TMA1970 and plenty of FTT cases on your side.

I would hazard a guess you have been speaking to officers and not higher officers or managers. You need to go higher up (or get your accountant to write a letter explaining the law).

NO RETURN WAS DUE

To call HMRC employees retards and cretins is totally out of order. It’s this government you should be calling retards and cretins. Staff are overworked, undertrained and underpaid. Stressed to the hilt and working with computer systems which are not fit for purpose. How much do you earn a year compared to an AO you speak to and berate on the phone?

[ken smith]

To call HMRC employees retards and cretins is totally out of order. It’s this government you should be calling retards and cretins. Staff are overworked, undertrained and underpaid. Stressed to the hilt and working with computer systems which are not fit for purpose. How much do you earn a year compared to an AO you speak to and berate on the phone?

I know one person who works for hmrc. He's a derby fan so i can see his point.

[jamieccfc]

I am having issues with HMRC also so can sympathise (simple issue with company car but has dragged on forever). If you still have the emails then surely you are on pretty solid ground going forward to resolve it. You seem pretty organised so hit them with the facts and you should get it sorted.
Pain in the arse as they have the power to take but a nightmare to get it back.

If you owe them 50p they're all over you like a rash but as soon as they owe you money it turns in to the krypton factor, 2 years after I finished self employment I was still having a nightmare with them I may aswell just phoned every **** down there to tell them I finished self employment

[valleys caveman]

If you owe them 50p they're all over you like a rash but as soon as they owe you money it turns in to the krypton factor, 2 years after I finished self employment I was still having a nightmare with them I may aswell just phoned every **** down there to tell them I finished self employment

How did you resolve it?

[jamieccfc]

How did you resolve it?

Was about 12 years ago but sure my accountant managed to sort it in the end and managed to get me a rebate just remember the grief I had because I didn't tell every ****er who works for her majesty that I finished self employment "You told this department but that doesn't mean they will tell this department because this department actually needs to know" aarrrggghhh

[Harry Monk]

I’m afraid it’s an absolute shambles. You have kids answering the phones who have probably only been there for a few weeks, reading off help cards, I kid you not. If you get through to an experienced member of staff you are lucky. They can’t keep staff because they pay them a pittance and the job is so stressful and difficult, they are leaving after a few weeks.

I would now write a letter of complaint and copy in your MP. Your letter will then be passed to an experience member of staff to deal with, hopefully.

I always write to HMRC and send my letter recorded delivery. I normally get a reply within 14 days. I think this is the only way to deal with Government Organisations.

[ElyBlueAJ]

I had the same problem with them, they kept sending me letters every so often saying I owed thousands of pounds in fines etc, eventually after speaking to them about 5 times they cancelled all the fines. They are hard work to deal with but you just need to keep being persistent. The fella i spoke to eventually was great and cancelled the fines on his computer there and then. Might be worth to keep ringing up until you speak to someone who will get it sorted there and then

[valleys caveman]

I had the same problem with them, they kept sending me letters every so often saying I owed thousands of pounds in fines etc, eventually after speaking to them about 5 times they cancelled all the fines. They are hard work to deal with but you just need to keep being persistent. The fella i spoke to eventually was great and cancelled the fines on his computer there and then. Might be worth to keep ringing up until you speak to someone who will get it sorted there and then

Cheers, mate.
I'll wait and see if I hear anything from them in the next fortnight. If I don't get any joy I'll get my accountant to try and sort it out for me. HMRC have been taking money from me since the beginning of April without informing me. I noticed my pay was down on what it normally was, so checked my docket and noticed I was paying double PAYE.
Such an easy error for them to rectify too.

[Auntie Andy]

Cheers, mate.
I'll wait and see if I hear anything from them in the next fortnight. If I don't get any joy I'll get my accountant to try and sort it out for me. HMRC have been taking money from me since the beginning of April without informing me. I noticed my pay was down on what it normally was, so checked my docket and noticed I was paying double PAYE.
Such an easy error for them to rectify too.

In all fairness they would have informed you by sending you a notice of coding, but as you admit, you failed to tell them your new address.

Hope you get it sorted though.

[The Bloop]

I love the irony that HMRC are seen by many as the government's equivalent of Satan because they collect taxes, but forget that tax receipts are used to fund other public services such as health and education.

[valleys caveman]

I love the irony that HMRC are seen by many as the government's equivalent of Satan because they collect taxes, but forget that tax receipts are used to fund other public services such as health and education.

I'm more than happy to pay my tax. Not so happy to be paying double for an error they've made