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Thread: What are the rules that prevent Tan converting debt to equity?

  1. #76

    Re: What are the rules that prevent Tan converting debt to equity?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Well you do have an agenda don't you. I know what a big City fan you were because of what you did regarding the book Richard Holt and I wrote five years ago - that's why I find it sad that it has come to this with you.

    While the current version of FFP came in for 16/17, the table at 5.3 in the link Penarth Blues provided shows figures from 11/12 right through to 15/16, so that must tell us surely that they were what was in place during those years? Therefore, the highest Vincent Tan could have converted in any season since 11/12 was £8 million (the amount that has been knocked off the club's debt to him through this method over the past two or three seasons).

    Based on the link I posted from 2010 about Man City's owner making a huge debt to equity conversion in 2010 while he still could because he knew the time for such things was running out, Vincent Tan may have had a year or so after he became more heavily involved with City in 2010 where he could have made a full and complete debt to equity conversion, but I'm not sure it could have happened at any time after that.

    This would mean that a complete debt to equity conversion would not have been possible in May 2012 when all of the controversy about the rebrand broke and yet I was at a meeting with club officials where a group of City fans were told that such a conversion was "imminent".

    Maybe Keith could confirm whether I'm right about debt to equity restrictions being in place from 11/12 onwards or whether I'm adding two and two and getting five?
    I have watched this debate from the sidelines and I am amazed it has got to 3 pages.

    For me it is simple - he said he would but he didn't and the only people who will know why is Tan and those close to him. Dependant on which camp you sit that either makes him a liar or there is a reason why he didn't do it.

    I suggest the OP write direct to him or try Mehmet Dalman - I have emailed him twice in the last couple of years and have had a rapid response on both occasions.

    For me I just think (and that's all I can say as i don't know it to be fact) we are in a better place off the pitch than I can remember in 40 years of supporting the club

  2. #77
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    Re: What are the rules that prevent Tan converting debt to equity?

    This thread has been quite informative at times.

    I don't think the FFP restrictions were explained on previous occasions when Debt To Equity was discussed on here (many times!)

    Vincent Tan did say he intended to convert £68m of his debt to equity immediately in the Fan Forum in February 2016 - and many media outlets (including WOL) were reporting that as something that had happened up to a year later.

    However, I am sure that by the beginning of 2017 we had been told via WOL reports or interviews with Dalman/Choo that Malaysian regulatory authorities had to give approval for a conversion of that scale, and that Mehmet Dalman said in an interiew that he had advised Vincent Tan not to convert his debt as quickly for other reasons. With hindsight those explanations sound confused - although they may both be part of the story. It now seems clear that FFP was the main problem and that the club didn't understand that well enough when Tan made his promise to fans. I think Keith Morgan for the Trust was asking the club for more detail on the Malaysian regulatory issue a year ago but never got a full explanation (maybe because it was a bit of a smokescreen).

    However, Vincent Tan has been writing off debts and converting other debts to equity at the fastest pace the FFP rules allow - and also pumping money into the club every month at 0% interest. He is clearly committed and is not milking the club at all - the opposite in fact.

    I would prefer to see a detailed statement from Dalman to say what the club is doing and why to make Cardiff City debt free (as Tan said he wanted back in 2013 as well as in 2016). There have been some partial explanations mainly through WOL interviews rather than club statements, but actions speak louder than words and the actions on debt in the past 3 years have all been positive.

  3. #78

    Re: What are the rules that prevent Tan converting debt to equity?

    Vinnie, sometimes says things, without knowing what he can or can't do.

    Remember the bonus's he promised the players, without knowing, if it's not in their contract he can't do it.

    Things are bobbing along nicely at the mo, for how long no-body but Vinnie knows.

    This is Cardiff City, sit back and enjoy the rollercoaster ride

  4. #79

    Re: What are the rules that prevent Tan converting debt to equity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt View Post

    Of course, give the new owners the benefit of the doubt by all means. But, Cardiff fans have collectively been taken in by people like Rick Wright (although he spelled out his exact commitments at the start), and Sam Hammam. I would have thought that Cardiff fans would have collectively become more cautious with experience.

    .
    What a bunch of ar5eholes, being taken in by someone who told them exactly what he was going to do. Good job he never tried to hoodwink them.

  5. #80

    Re: What are the rules that prevent Tan converting debt to equity?

    It seems to me the bottom line is this.

    The club owes Tan several million pounds. If Tan converts the debt to equity, he is writing off the money.*

    If Tan pulls the plug on the club he is writing off the money**

    *By converting the debt to equity, the club will, in the long term, become debt free, which means it can be sold, and Tan makes his money back through share sales.

    **Pulling the plug on the club, Tan loses millions and will never get his investment back.

    At present, the club is not an attractive club to be sold on due to the debt. So, Tan has the above choices. As a businessman, I'm sure he's written debt off in the past, but as much as this? (I don't know the answer to the question by the way). I'm not a business man, but the club is now in the best position for Tan to recoup his investment. So if I were him, I'd be converting the debt to equity as much as I could, season by season until the club became a viable selling option. (Whilst I have the money to do so, naturally).

    I'm not sure what all the fuss is about really. As was said earlier, we have no control over what happens.

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