+ Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results
Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Charlie Mullins/ Gig Economy

  1. #1

    Charlie Mullins/ Gig Economy

    Pimlico Plumbers lost again today in the Supreme Court against their employment practices. Judges agreed that the people they employ are workers not self employed. This fella just won't have it though and is going to the Europen Court of Human Rights. Is the gig economy going to change because of this or will the government side with the company's that follow these practices.Surely it's just about not treating workers fairly for these companies and saving money.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...mlico-plumbers

  2. #2

    Re: Charlie Mullins/ Gig Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by joecity View Post
    Pimlico Plumbers lost again today in the Supreme Court against their employment practices. Judges agreed that the people they employ are workers not self employed. This fella just won't have it though and is going to the Europen Court of Human Rights. Is the gig economy going to change because of this or will the government side with the company's that follow these practices.Surely it's just about not treating workers fairly for these companies and saving money.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...mlico-plumbers
    Every case is taken on its own merits. There are (I think) about 6 conditions that establish whether you are employed or self employed.

    The right of substitution - you can get someone else to do the work on your behalf. So a self employed plumber doing work on behalf of Pimlico Plumbers could ask his mate to do the work instead - I dont think Mullins would allow that.
    Mutality of Obligation (MOO) - if there is no work on - do they still pay you
    Does the company you are doing work for insist you wear a uniform ?
    etc etc etc

    The interesting bit is IR35 introduced way back in Gordon Browns time - where the Govt seem to want to class you as self employed (for employment rights) and employed for tax reasons. This has been an area of confusion and court cases for years, HMRC lost the latest one.

    As for Mullins - he is the pimp of the plumbing world. He finds you work, you wear his uniform, he tells you what to do and when etc - this is NOT the gig economy at all - this is disguised employment.

    The gig economy as far as I operate - is doing small one off jobs between my company and lots of other people / companies. The guy in this case - was doing the same work for the same Pimlico Plumbers company - for 6 years.

    If you had a contract to implement an IT system - the contract lasted 9 months - would you expect to be classed as an employee of that company ? - I wouldnt - but HMRC seem to think I would.

    Its a very very grey area. Mullins is protesting as he knows this is a game changer for him

  3. #3

    Re: Charlie Mullins/ Gig Economy

    It's probably a grey area on purpose.

  4. #4

    Re: Charlie Mullins/ Gig Economy

    As long as they all pay their tax and national insurance they should have rights

  5. #5

    Re: Charlie Mullins/ Gig Economy

    think this case will have huge implications for most contract workers and companies in this country . as ninian clark has mentioned the grey area bit is IR35 . Myself have contracted for a number of years now and choose to do rather than work for a company . it suits me down to the ground . think after this case working on a contract basis is going to change big time . the thought of working for a boss again on the companys books dreads me with fear !

  6. #6

    Re: Charlie Mullins/ Gig Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    As long as they all pay their tax and national insurance they should have rights
    The tax system in this country is a right sham.

  7. #7

    Re: Charlie Mullins/ Gig Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    The tax system in this country is a right sham.
    If I get treated as an employee - then I should pay tax as an employee - and enjoy all the benefits of being an employee.
    If however - I run my own company, I have a contract between my company and a client and dont get (or want) the perks of being an employee - then my employer is my own company. Of which there are 4 of us.

    The tax system seems to be a mess by design / on purpose. HMRC can easily go after the low hanging fruit. HMRC will regularly go on a fishing expedition - sending out letters that want to do an inspection of the company. This then turns into an IR35 inspection or Section 660A inspection. They then tell you they have decided you come under one of those laws - and must pay x amount.

    Most small companies dont have the resource to fight - let alone know how to treat HMRC - and fold - they end up paying tax as if they are employed - without getting any of the employee benefits (IR35 to a T).

    successive Govts have made a complete balls up of employed / self employed - and it's been going on since Donahue v Steveson (IIRC) re self employment tests

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •