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Thread: Safe in their hands

  1. #1

    Safe in their hands


  2. #2

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    To be fair - you would need to define waiting for what treatment.

    Cancer, physio, mental health, gyno, kids, geriatric.

    The difference in that graph is there are 180,000 less people waiting today than there were under Labour in 2007.

    Labour threw money at the NHS like confetti in the early 2000's - and lots of it wasted or mis spent under PFI (which will take years to pay off at exorbitant rates of interest) - I know I fecking worked on a few NHS contracts - the waste was colossus.

    The good bit though was the NHS had the power to tie companies in deadlines and penalties - something they had not been able to do before. Accenture dived out early and so did Fujitsu.

    NHS Wales on the other hand were not part of the program - and decided to go their own way (bad move big time). If you ever looked how the NHS in Wales was structured , with individual fiefdoms everywhere - it's pathetic beyond belief. Which is why you never fix a problem by just throwing money at it just my 2p worth.
    The throwing money at it you describe in the early 2000 was basically bringing it into line with spending in most of the rest of Europe (and about a third of the USA).
    In the 80s and 90s under the Tories we were spending half as much as Germany on healthcare.

  3. #3

    Re: Safe in their hands

    2007 population 60,975,000
    2018 population 66,573,504

    More eastern Europeans immigration now pulling heavily on our services

    Life expectancy is up .

    Need a war

  4. #4

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    2007 population 60,975,000
    2018 population 66,573,504

    More eastern Europeans immigration now pulling heavily on our services

    Life expectancy is up .

    Need a war
    Funding has a much bigger effect on services than population/immigration.

  5. #5

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    2007 population 60,975,000
    2018 population 66,573,504

    More eastern Europeans immigration now pulling heavily on our services

    Life expectancy is up .

    Need a war
    I was going to comment on the population increase over the period as well. Can't understand why anyone but the terminally stupid would look at these figures in isolation with the obvious massive influx in population.

    Still, its propaganda like this that works for the stupid.

  6. #6

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Funding has a much bigger effect on services than population/immigration.

    Are you saying funding has decreased over the period?

  7. #7

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I was going to comment on the population increase over the period as well. Can't understand why anyone but the terminally stupid would look at these figures in isolation with the obvious massive influx in population.

    Still, its propaganda like this that works for the stupid.
    There's been research that drills down into areas and compares A&E waiting time with local immigrant population. Turns out there's no correlation.

    https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ion-nhs-crisis

    EU immigrants tend to pay more in to the system than they take out - not surprising as they also tend to be of healthy working age.

    The NHS could claim more money back from their home countries than it does. Who knows why they don't - admin staff shortages, perhaps?

  8. #8

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Are you saying funding has decreased over the period?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-a7836086.html

    Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets this year (2017), analysis reveals

  9. #9

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-a7836086.html

    Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets this year (2017), analysis reveals
    The article refers to public health initiatives not spending on the NHS in general, which is what we are talking about.

    Has spending on the NHS been cut over the period referred to.

  10. #10

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I was going to comment on the population increase over the period as well. Can't understand why anyone but the terminally stupid would look at these figures in isolation with the obvious massive influx in population.

    Still, its propaganda like this that works for the stupid.
    Big but not massive enough to explain the increase. As ninianclark says though you can't analyse something as complex as this off a simple (and undefined) number.

    If the graph was intended to be propaganda I don't think it would start in 2007!

  11. #11

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Big but not massive enough to explain the increase. As ninianclark says though you can't analyse something as complex as this off a simple (and undefined) number.

    If the graph was intended to be propaganda I don't think it would start in 2007!
    No, but in this instance it is being used as propaganda by the OP.

  12. #12

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I would add my own experience of having to go to a real emergency at the Heath, on three separate occasions going to Heath A&E - it's not hard to figure out that certain people of certain ethic / national backgrounds - that obviously dont have access to a GP or havent registered for some reason - use A&E as a defacto GP surgery.

    On the 4th time I went to the fracture clinic - there was an over abundance of nursing staff - so much so - it was almost like one of the ghost hospitals in North Korea - thats just for show - and no real patients.

    That graph is meaningless - like we all seem to agree and there are so many variables - you could make it mean whatever you want it to.
    In your experience lol , yeah and Wales are going to win this year's football world cup

    You've got a story of bullshit for every day of the week

  13. #13

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    Your tablets have just kicked in have they ?

    Stick to your childish / sexist ' I nearly sh@gged a woman' type posts on the other forum
    Take the piss out of mental health as much as you like like the other arsehole it wll come back to visit you don't worry about that Tory boy

  14. #14

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    In your experience lol , yeah and Wales are going to win this year's football world cup

    You've got a story of bullshit for every day of the week
    This ^^^

    I donít think Iíve ever seen such a me, me, me, me poster in my life. He even sent me PMs telling me all about how wonderful he is

  15. #15

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    feckinel - even Sludge's alter ego is on one.

    "He even sent me PMs" - really ?
    I sent you ONE PM - as you know on 17th December at 12:45 - here is the screen shot - why not screen shot your inbox - it's very easy to do

    https://snag.gy/T4C5g2.jpg

    Mad, bad and dangerous.

  16. #16

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Mad, bad and dangerous.
    Mad , bad , sectioned , if there any lower you can stoop

    A few years ago , correct me if I am wrong , your wife had cancer, would it be ok if I made some wisecracks about her on here ? It's only a joke after all, like suicide it doesn't really exist

    Let's have it chopsy

  17. #17

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Mad , bad , sectioned , if there any lower you can stoop

    A few years ago , correct me if I am wrong , your wife had cancer, would it be ok if I made some wisecracks about her on here ? It's only a joke after all, like suicide it doesn't really exist

    Let's have it chopsy
    WTF are you on about Sludge??

  18. #18

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by ninianclark View Post
    I would add my own experience of having to go to a real emergency at the Heath, on three separate occasions going to Heath A&E - it's not hard to figure out that certain people of certain ethic / national backgrounds - that obviously dont have access to a GP or havent registered for some reason - use A&E as a defacto GP surgery.

    On the 4th time I went to the fracture clinic - there was an over abundance of nursing staff - so much so - it was almost like one of the ghost hospitals in North Korea - thats just for show - and no real patients.

    That graph is meaningless - like we all seem to agree and there are so many variables - you could make it mean whatever you want it to.
    This is why the politics forum isnít worth reading using anecdotal evidence like this to back up an argument thatís been proven to be completely false.

  19. #19

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    This is why the politics forum isn’t worth reading using anecdotal evidence like this to back up an argument that’s been proven to be completely false.
    Well don't read it then! Quite simple.

  20. #20

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Blaming migrants for the issues with the NHS and not the cuts is in line with blaming people on benefits and not millionaire tax dodgers for problems with the budget.

    Itís fearmongering planted in the press to ensure the easily influenced donít see the real cause. Well done if youíve been taken in by that.

  21. #21

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Blaming migrants for the issues with the NHS and not the cuts is in line with blaming people on benefits and not millionaire tax dodgers for problems with the budget.

    It’s fearmongering planted in the press to ensure the easily influenced don’t see the real cause. Well done if you’ve been taken in by that.
    Are you suggesting that an increase in population of 5.5m people over the period of the graph in the OP has not had an impact on the number of people waiting for NHS treatment??

  22. #22

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Not at all, if you read what Iíve written itís jusf not the main cause and immigrants are certainly not the main cause. If you look at all the research done immigrants are shown to have a very small effect on the NHS.

    There is no avoiding the fact that the NHS has been massively underfunded to allow the creep of the privatisation of it. The only way anyone couldnít see this is if theyíre actively avoiding seeing it.

  23. #23

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Are you suggesting that an increase in population of 5.5m people over the period of the graph in the OP has not had an impact on the number of people waiting for NHS treatment??
    The population has also aged a lot in that time. The percentage of people over 60 has increased. It's unlikely that many of those are new immigrants.

  24. #24

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    The population has also aged a lot in that time. The percentage of people over 60 has increased. It's unlikely that many of those are new immigrants.
    Can you point me to where I have said that it is anything to do with immigration.

  25. #25

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Can you point me to where I have said that it is anything to do with immigration.
    "Obvious massive influx of population"


  26. #26

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Can you point me to where I have said that it is anything to do with immigration.
    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I was going to comment on the population increase over the period as well. Can't understand why anyone but the terminally stupid would look at these figures in isolation with the obvious massive influx in population.

    Still, its propaganda like this that works for the stupid.

  27. #27

    Re: Safe in their hands

    My bad - Increase in population rather than influx, which I accept infers immigration.

    I have never suggested immigration is wrong or problematic.

    The increase in population has impacted on the use of NHS services in the UK.

  28. #28

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Fair dos

  29. #29

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    My bad - Increase in population rather than influx, which I accept infers immigration.

    I have never suggested immigration is wrong or problematic.

    The increase in population has impacted on the use of NHS services in the UK.
    Surely then a population increase is something that should be easily dealt with by whoever is in charge at the time. Increased population isnít a valid reason it just means it being even more under funded.

  30. #30

    Re: Safe in their hands

    Nick and ninianclark pair of bullshitters , note to self

    Croesy did or did your wife not suffer cancer ? Yes or no because I distinctly remember sending you a pm wishing her well, if that was the case why are you taking the piss out of a potential like ending mental illness

    Good old ninianclark even sent me a PM to sent to his allegedly mental health in law to raise some points after I said my stay at llandough was shocking , sounds like more smoke in the grass from a snake in the grass

    Pair of bullshitters

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