Reply With QuoteI think Bolton saw us coming. We paid far over the odds for an average Championship player.Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
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I'd use him like a sort of last 15 minute battering ram in games where we had no other option than hoofing it or getting dead ball kicks into him , he could be our Fellani, I note the England centre back Maguire states he's that Madine is the hardest player he's ever come up againgst, all I would say let's not hang him out to dry too soon.
We're going to need every trick and effort in the book next year .
I think Bolton saw us coming. We paid far over the odds for an average Championship player.
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Madine has scored just 21 goals in 138 career Championship appearances. Despite his penalty assisted little purple patch with Bolton last season, these figures suggest he is not even an average Championship striker. No better than Alex Revell in my view and Warnock deserves a lot more stick than he has actually received for paying so much for him.
Nothing like hanging one of your own teams players out to dry before a new season starts is there. Like most players do, Madine has improved as he has got older. In his last three seasons at Bolton, he scored 26 goals in 106 appearances or one goal every 4 games - hardly shabby is it ?. After we signed him in January, he only started 6 games and in one of those suffered a broken nose and ankle damage. In another he got cracked ribs. In case you hadn't noticed, he also helped get us promotion to the Premier League and his arrival was a major factor in Zohores form improving. Bearing in mind he has never played in the Premier League, how anybody say he isnt good enough is beyond me. The only way to find out is to give him a chance. If we did pay £6m for him, then it was worth every penny - we get £100m next season just for turning up. Our new signing Bobby Reid has only scored 27 goals in 117 appearances in the last 3 years, worse than Madine - dont hear anyone moaning about that though do we.
The initial fee was about right.
I doubt the club actually thought they would have to pay the add on at the time but as you say it was worth it.
NML was free , so I guess this softens the blow a little and besides not all transfers are hits are they , you only need to look at most Premier clubs to realise that.
With you 100% on this. Give the lad a chance.
To my surprise, I find myself agreeing with you - Madine is injury prone.
In the Millwall game, the opposing centre halves took it in turns to elbow Madine in the head and then kick him. He took it, didnt moan and carried on playing. In the Bristol game he was upended by a dirty challenge in mid air and landed very heavily on his ribs. He only missed a couple of games after both incidents. Most players put in that position would have missed the rest of the season. Warnock obviously values him - he said today that he still wanted an extra forward but to go with Zohore, Ward and Madine, not replace any of them, because he feels that four would be ideal number to take on the challenge this season. Looks like he has a part to play and deserves it.
And Cornelius one who wasn't. A few substitute appearances followed by a four month injury and out-going transfer was hardly being given a chance.
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Too true.
Looks like he's going to miss several seasons playing for City.....
I sincerely hope I am, but it seems that there'll be a few with me if I doCareful TOBW - you're potentially very close to doing a Jimmy or a Steve R....
Fair play to dml, at least he's had a go at providing some of the things I have missed about Madine, but I find his logic bizarre - effectively, he seems to be saying that Cameron Toshack may have been a superstar centre forward in the old First Division if only someone had given him the chance!
I agree TOBW, sorry dml. Your attempt to defend Madine was ballsy, but sadly doesn't stand up to scrutiny.I sincerely hope I am, but it seems that there'll be a few with me if I do
Fair play to dml, at least he's had a go at providing some of the things I have missed about Madine, but I find his logic bizarre - effectively, he seems to be saying that Cameron Toshack may have been a superstar centre forward in the old First Division if only someone had given him the chance!
Last season with Bolton, he scored 10 Championship goals which is practically half of his entire Championship tally. Before last season, he'd never scored more than 5 in a Championship season. He's a below-average Championship player and I'd be amazed if he got a sniff at the PL. Perhaps he suits Warnock's style of play and tactics in the top-flight which might explain why he was signed in the first place, but surely even you might realise why many of us are dubious as to his scoring ability when he didn't exactly light up the CCS?
Only 5 years ago, he was getting loaned to the likes of Carlisle and Coventry in League 1 which I think is his ideal level. Just because people criticise him for whatever reason doesn't mean we don't get behind him when he's playing for our club. Perhaps this is why you're being so defensive?
I'd love it if he proved us wrong and had the best season of his career so far, but as it looks on paper, it's understandable why we have our doubts.
Five years ago he was only 22, so being loaned out to other teams was presumably to help him develop and get experience. Last season he only started 6 games for us and came on as sub in 7 others. In the three previous seasons with Bolton he scored 26 goals in 107 appearances - comparable to Zohore and better than Bobby Reid. Some players develop later than others in age terms and there us evidence that this is happening with Madine - the type of game he plays is quite physical, so at 22 he probably hadnt developed fully strength wise. He was written off by some here before he even kicked a ball. People should just give him a chance - having doubts is ok but calling him a donkey and other such insults ?.I agree TOBW, sorry dml. Your attempt to defend Madine was ballsy, but sadly doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Last season with Bolton, he scored 10 Championship goals which is practically half of his entire Championship tally. Before last season, he'd never scored more than 5 in a Championship season. He's a below-average Championship player and I'd be amazed if he got a sniff at the PL. Perhaps he suits Warnock's style of play and tactics in the top-flight which might explain why he was signed in the first place, but surely even you might realise why many of us are dubious as to his scoring ability when he didn't exactly light up the CCS?
Only 5 years ago, he was getting loaned to the likes of Carlisle and Coventry in League 1 which I think is his ideal level. Just because people criticise him for whatever reason doesn't mean we don't get behind him when he's playing for our club. Perhaps this is why you're being so defensive?
I'd love it if he proved us wrong and had the best season of his career so far
Comparing Madine to Cameron Toshack is a bit silly really and yes bizarre. Toshack made a grand total of eleven senior appearances for four clubs and scored a total of one goal. He makes Madine look like Messi. The only reason we signed Toshack was because he was the son of one of our best players ever. It was quite obvious that he wasnt up to it from day one and had two left feet. Even I wouldnt have tried to defend that. Madines case is totally different, as you well know. He just deserves a chance and to not be written off before he has.I sincerely hope I am, but it seems that there'll be a few with me if I do
Fair play to dml, at least he's had a go at providing some of the things I have missed about Madine, but I find his logic bizarre - effectively, he seems to be saying that Cameron Toshack may have been a superstar centre forward in the old First Division if only someone had given him the chance!
Dont see why you would say that -Warnock has said today that he will be one of four forwards for next season. That doesnt indicate that he wants him to go does it ?.
From the limited times I saw him last season I thought Madine was far superior to Zohore in his aerial ability and hold up play. Where Zohore gets the nod is for raw pace. I think they’re very similar in terms of the strength they can bring.
It is easy to imagine games where their differences may give one the nod over the other. If we envisage very mobile midfielders and wingers running onto layoffs then I think Madine could play a major role yet.
As others have said, let’s give him a chance and trust in NW and staff to decide who might best help us impose our game plans.
An expensive version of Steve Thompson.
Fair play made meI sincerely hope I am, but it seems that there'll be a few with me if I do
Fair play to dml, at least he's had a go at providing some of the things I have missed about Madine, but I find his logic bizarre - effectively, he seems to be saying that Cameron Toshack may have been a superstar centre forward in the old First Division if only someone had given him the chance!
You said "Bearing in mind he has never played in the Premier League, how anybody say he isnt good enough is beyond me. The only way to find out is to give him a chance", all I did was take that logic and apply it to another footballer. Toshack never played in the old First Division, so, to paraphrase your own words, how anyone can say he wasn't good enough to do so is beyond me.
Of course, I think that argument is rubbish, but then I also think it is equally dodgy when you try telling us that an ugly duckling who has spent nearly all of his career playing in the lower divisions, a striker who struggled to make any meaningful impact for us in the Championship, might become a swan in the Premier League when, like Toshack, there is nothing in his career to suggest this will happen.
Cameron Toshack has no place in this debate.
He does while dml says you can't say someone isn't going to make it as a Premier League performer until they are given a chance to play in it.
Who remembers this funny episode
https://www.theguardian.com/football...ampton-souness
Even you?
You go back 30 odd years and pick on a hopeless player who hardly played any games and use that as an example against my argument. There are many, many players who could be used as examples of players with no Premier League experience like Madine, that have been taken from lower league football and made a success of it at the top level. On that basis no one would ever sign anybody from the lower leagues. You base your opinion of Madine on seeing him make six starts (in two of which he was kicked off the pitch) and seven substitute appearances for us last year. Thats an unreasonable snap opinion in my view because you probably didn't rate him when we bought him.
Just maybe he has been seen playing for other clubs than just ours
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