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Thread: No Deal Brexit.

  1. #101

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt View Post
    The quality of debate was shit, let's be fair. My position at the time was that my default position was to remain and it was up to the leavers to convince mt that leaving was going to improve on what we already had.

    It's interesting that you view the remain campaign as being project fear. I thought the remain campaign focused too much on the negatives of leaving, and not the positives of staying. Some of Cameron's claims were fanciful, how that cretin ever made it to Tory leader is amazing, but then the Tories haven't had a good leader since John Major.

    I saw the leave campaign as being equally about project fear. The millions of Albanians and Turks, the Europe army and all that jazz was equally about striking fear into the populace.

    I know people that voted leave purely on immigration. I also know people who voted leave believing that a trade deal with the EU was a mere formality. Some of those people have changed their minds - mainly due to the fact that the leavers who promised milk and honey are nowhere near the decision making process, and it is obvious we are now at a crossroads - no deal, or no brexit. I can't see any other alternatives. As for a trade deal with America - don't make me laugh. That is not going to be anywhere near as beneficial if it happens.

    Farage is busy advising his mates to short the pound.
    Post of the week, I couldn’t agree more, it’s everything I’ve been thinking and agree with 👏👏

  2. #102

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    So why are you calling for a second referendum when it's already done and dusted? The people have already decided the issue.
    What I don't understand is if someone calls for citizens to be asked for their views again this can be seen as not respecting "the people"!

  3. #103

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    So why are you calling for a second referendum when it's already done and dusted? The people have already decided the issue.
    I guess those who understand the difference between a referendum and an election would have said that the people have already advised on the issue!

  4. #104

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    Post of the week, I couldn’t agree more, it’s everything I’ve been thinking and agree with 👏👏
    Yep it’s a good post. Why so many working class people put their trust in millionaires like Farage and Grease-Mogg is beyond me. Are they really that stupid?

  5. #105

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by PontBlue View Post
    What I don't understand is if someone calls for citizens to be asked for their views again this can be seen as not respecting "the people"!
    It is pretty simple. Brexiteers think think winning was a fluke and that the country would now vote the other way.

  6. #106

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt View Post
    The quality of debate was shit, let's be fair. My position at the time was that my default position was to remain and it was up to the leavers to convince mt that leaving was going to improve on what we already had.

    It's interesting that you view the remain campaign as being project fear. I thought the remain campaign focused too much on the negatives of leaving, and not the positives of staying. Some of Cameron's claims were fanciful, how that cretin ever made it to Tory leader is amazing, but then the Tories haven't had a good leader since John Major.

    I saw the leave campaign as being equally about project fear. The millions of Albanians and Turks, the Europe army and all that jazz was equally about striking fear into the populace.

    I know people that voted leave purely on immigration. I also know people who voted leave believing that a trade deal with the EU was a mere formality. Some of those people have changed their minds - mainly due to the fact that the leavers who promised milk and honey are nowhere near the decision making process, and it is obvious we are now at a crossroads - no deal, or no brexit. I can't see any other alternatives. As for a trade deal with America - don't make me laugh. That is not going to be anywhere near as beneficial if it happens.

    Farage is busy advising his mates to short the pound.
    I think anyone who is arguing for the status quo in any membership referendum is on dodgy ground because they have nothing shiny and new to offer, but I agree that remain needed to be more positive, because some of their claims were ridiculous when it came to what a leave vote would mean.

    I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent, but, more than in any election I've voted in, I felt I didn't know enough about the subject of this hugely important vote and wanted to be "educated" by both sides - fat chance!

  7. #107

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I think anyone who is arguing for the status quo in any membership referendum is on dodgy ground because they have nothing shiny and new to offer, but I agree that remain needed to be more positive, because some of their claims were ridiculous when it came to what a leave vote would mean.

    I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent, but, more than in any election I've voted in, I felt I didn't know enough about the subject of this hugely important vote and wanted to be "educated" by both sides - fat chance!
    I agree with that completely. I had no idea what I was really voting for or against and so I needed the people that were advocating change to convince me that change was necessary. Instead, they indulged in their own project fear.

    Farage.jpg

  8. #108

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    I guess those who understand the difference between a referendum and an election would have said that the people have already advised on the issue!
    That's all well and good, but in the 2 years, 1 month and 1 week since that referendum took place we have the very people who were telling us a deal with the EU was easy, that they needed us more than we needed them - the people who told us that are now trying to sell a No Deal Brexit as no bad thing. The two key positions of Government are held by a passive remainer, and an agressive remainer. We have had a General Election that, instead of clearing Parliament, hamstrung it completely. After her Lancaster House Speech, I was actually relieved to see May had a roadmap to a future post EU membership. What the feck has happened since then? Because, it is obvious to me, there are no plans. There never were any plans, and Government and Opposition are filled with self-servers seeking career opportunities, and not many working for the public interest.

    The referendum saw the people narrowly advising the Government that leaving was best for the country. The Government has failed to meet those demands so far, are now on holiday for a month, followed by a week or two in Parliament, followed by another few weeks off for Conferences. It is painful to watch because, at the end of all this, none of us are getting what we voted for (48% have already lost, how many of the 52% are still winners at this moment)?

    The thing is, a no deal brexit will kill manufacturing, it will kill road haulage companies, and it will kill agriculture. Probably the three sectors of the Country's industry that voted most strongly to leave! If anything, what is happening now is far more undemocratic than holding a second referendum for the people to advise on the next best path to take - no deal, or no brexit. There's no middle ground anymore.

    The people who "won" that referendum (I think Boris didn't really want to win it) are nowhere to be seen. The people who called for the referendum are nowhere to be seen. The people who called the referendum are nowhere to be seen (by people, I mean MPs). They're all hiding away and resigning a few days after leaving a cabinet meeting where everyone was said to agree. What the feck were Davis and Johnson doing in Chequers? Where was their British Bulldog spirit? It took Davis a weekend to resign, and Boris a little bit longer.

  9. #109

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Dominic Frisby (Money Week) makes a strong case for the benefits of leaving the single market in an interview with Adam Boulton on Sky News.

    https://forums.digitalspy.com/discus...mment/90774087
    That was awkward to watch. I still haven't seen anything close to a convincing reason in favour of this mess.

    Rees-Mogg was batted into a corner by Krishnan Guru-Murthy (I think it was him) and said that the economic benefits for Brexit may not be apparent for 50 years.

    50 years! We haven't even given the EU that long. Almost everyone who voted in 2016 will be dead or retired. No one makes economic predictions for 50 years in the future. It's infuriating, and I only hope the impending immediate disaster continues to seep into the public conscious, as I feel has been happening over the past couple of weeks.

    We can still withdraw Article 50. A few months ago I felt that wasn't wise as the undercurrent of why so many people voted to leave will still be there, and people like Farage would stoke it up. But now I'm starting to think that at least that cohort won't be around for decades. It increasingly feels like the country has been held to ransom by Aron Banks and his crew.

  10. #110

  11. #111

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    That was awkward to watch. I still haven't seen anything close to a convincing reason in favour of this mess.

    Rees-Mogg was batted into a corner by Krishnan Guru-Murthy (I think it was him) and said that the economic benefits for Brexit may not be apparent for 50 years.

    50 years! We haven't even given the EU that long. Almost everyone who voted in 2016 will be dead or retired. No one makes economic predictions for 50 years in the future. It's infuriating, and I only hope the impending immediate disaster continues to seep into the public conscious, as I feel has been happening over the past couple of weeks.

    We can still withdraw Article 50. A few months ago I felt that wasn't wise as the undercurrent of why so many people voted to leave will still be there, and people like Farage would stoke it up. But now I'm starting to think that at least that cohort won't be around for decades. It increasingly feels like the country has been held to ransom by Aron Banks and his crew.
    50 years! Rees-Mogg will feel the benefits overnight.

  12. #112

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    What will the EU do with all of their excess products that they sell to us, do you think the companies that make them will stand by and be told they will have to forget about this business? These companies are heavily invested in their workforces, plant and equipment, and they have financial obligations that need to be met. I can't see it happening myself, just like the EU capitulated to Trump, as there is no benefit for the EU in pursuing negative trade deals.

  13. #113

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    What will the EU do with all of their excess products that they sell to us, do you think the companies that make them will stand by and be told they will have to forget about this business? These companies are heavily invested in their workforces, plant and equipment, and they have financial obligations that need to be met. I can't see it happening myself, just like the EU capitulated to Trump, as there is no benefit for the EU in pursuing negative trade deals.
    It's a game of chicken and we will lose. A no-deal is far more damaging to us than it would be to the EU27, they know that and so do we.

    Does it not worry you that you are consistently trotting out this tabloid rhetoric on the issue of Brexit?

  14. #114

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It's a game of chicken and we will lose. A no-deal is far more damaging to us than it would be to the EU27, they know that and so do we.

    Does it not worry you that you are consistently trotting out this tabloid rhetoric on the issue of Brexit?
    The rhetoric is essential, it is a way of avoiding difficult questions like "What are the benefits of leaving the EU".

  15. #115

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It's a game of chicken and we will lose. A no-deal is far more damaging to us than it would be to the EU27, they know that and so do we.

    Does it not worry you that you are consistently trotting out this tabloid rhetoric on the issue of Brexit?
    Same like Trump stood no chance in trade negotiations with the EU?

  16. #116

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It's a game of chicken and we will lose. A no-deal is far more damaging to us than it would be to the EU27, they know that and so do we.

    Does it not worry you that you are consistently trotting out this tabloid rhetoric on the issue of Brexit?
    The phrase is "useful idiot" for a reason.

  17. #117

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    The phrase is "useful idiot" for a reason.
    I see you've been studying your Marxism handbook

  18. #118
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    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    I see you've been studying your Marxism handbook

  19. #119

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    What will the EU do with all of their excess products that they sell to us, do you think the companies that make them will stand by and be told they will have to forget about this business? These companies are heavily invested in their workforces, plant and equipment, and they have financial obligations that need to be met. I can't see it happening myself, just like the EU capitulated to Trump, as there is no benefit for the EU in pursuing negative trade deals.

    I think it’s fair to say it was a good deal for both the USA and the EU so not sure why you’re trying to yet again spin it as some one sided victory. It reads like a Daily Express headline and I think we can finally put that nonsense neutral position you espouse to bed.

    Whether or not the UK will be as successful when we know our economy isn’t as big as America’s is yet to be seen. I hope a deal ncan be done to make the best of this utterly farcical situation created by that poisonous prick (copyright David Mitchell) Cameron got us into .

  20. #120

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Same like Trump stood no chance in trade negotiations with the EU?
    Who said this?

  21. #121

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    What will the EU do with all of their excess products that they sell to us, do you think the companies that make them will stand by and be told they will have to forget about this business? These companies are heavily invested in their workforces, plant and equipment, and they have financial obligations that need to be met. I can't see it happening myself, just like the EU capitulated to Trump, as there is no benefit for the EU in pursuing negative trade deals.
    On the other hand, many of the 27 countries in the EU may be rubbing their hands in knowing that they may pick up the slack if British goods are too expensive for other EU countries to import.

  22. #122

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Who said this?
    The EU!

  23. #123

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    I think it’s fair to say it was a good deal for both the USA and the EU so not sure why you’re trying to yet again spin it as some one sided victory. It reads like a Daily Express headline and I think we can finally put that nonsense neutral position you espouse to bed.

    Whether or not the UK will be as successful when we know our economy isn’t as big as America’s is yet to be seen. I hope a deal ncan be done to make the best of this utterly farcical situation created by that poisonous prick (copyright David Mitchell) Cameron got us into .
    Both Britain and America buy more from the EU than they sell to them, so it's the same trade scenario. Stop being a one-eyed loon

  24. #124

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    On the other hand, many of the 27 countries in the EU may be rubbing their hands in knowing that they may pick up the slack if British goods are too expensive for other EU countries to import.
    How does that grow the EU economy? Those 27 countries could be making something else, instead of diverting their workforces to the task of picking up the slack!

  25. #125

    Re: No Deal Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    How does that grow the EU economy? Those 27 countries could be making something else, instead of diverting their workforces to the task of picking up the slack!
    It may grow the economy of some of the EC countries concerned. Those that do not export to us as much as countries like Germany. It's not necessarily the case that all 27 countries concerned will lose out if a hard Brexit takes place.

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