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Thread: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

  1. #1

    Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.


  2. #2

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    One positive for me yesterday was seeing how intelligent Lawrence has become in possession. Won free kicks in very good areas when there was nowhere to go and he was making runs that were far more intelligent than Bale made all game.

    It was a very ď2017 Chris ColemanĒ style performance yesterday. I wonder if thatís because Gunter was back in the side. I like Gunter but most of the time he was slowing play down, though he made a couple of forward passes that Iíve not seen him do for ages. This is a clear instruction by Giggs of course.

    We are not going to be beating Denmark with ease, they are a quality team. Iím really not sure what some people were expecting?!

    The U21s tomorrow have a real test on their hands against a Portugal side with Jota leading the line!

  3. #3

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
    One positive for me yesterday was seeing how intelligent Lawrence has become in possession. Won free kicks in very good areas when there was nowhere to go and he was making runs that were far more intelligent than Bale made all game.

    It was a very “2017 Chris Coleman” style performance yesterday. I wonder if that’s because Gunter was back in the side. I like Gunter but most of the time he was slowing play down, though he made a couple of forward passes that I’ve not seen him do for ages. This is a clear instruction by Giggs of course.

    We are not going to be beating Denmark with ease, they are a quality team. I’m really not sure what some people were expecting?!

    The U21s tomorrow have a real test on their hands against a Portugal side with Jota leading the line!
    It didn't help that we played two right backs, as well as Bale got into "win it on his own mode". They're a good side though and Brooks has to start for me, he's a breath of fresh air. Ampadu and him have really nailed down their places in the side for me. I like Lawrence but a few times he doesn't take enough care in possession still but he's a very good player. With Wilson, Brooks, Woodburn etc not starting we've certainly got options for the first time I can remember.

  4. #4

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    It didn't help that we played two right backs, as well as Bale got into "win it on his own mode". They're a good side though and Brooks has to start for me, he's a breath of fresh air. Ampadu and him have really nailed down their places in the side for me. I like Lawrence but a few times he doesn't take enough care in possession still but he's a very good player. With Wilson, Brooks, Woodburn etc not starting we've certainly got options for the first time I can remember.
    This is a recurring theme. Rambo is the same.

  5. #5

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    I agree regarding Gunter. He's great if you need to defend all game but going forward he offers next to nothing.

    Denmark were so compact defensively yesterday getting around the outside was the best way to hurt them but Gunter isn't that type of full back.

  6. #6

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by PontBlue View Post
    I agree regarding Gunter. He's great if you need to defend all game but going forward he offers next to nothing.

    Denmark were so compact defensively yesterday getting around the outside was the best way to hurt them but Gunter isn't that type of full back.
    I agree too.
    There was one particular nice interchange in the first half at nil nil where he got forward beyond the last defender but his teammate, could well have been Ramsey, didn't return it to him and the move broke down.
    Whether he didn't get it because Ramsey knows his limitations I don't know but it took CG a while to get back into position.

    Fair play, he's been a great servant but his days under Giggs could be numbered, especially if he goes for 3 at the back.

  7. #7

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
    One positive for me yesterday was seeing how intelligent Lawrence has become in possession. Won free kicks in very good areas when there was nowhere to go and he was making runs that were far more intelligent than Bale made all game.

    It was a very ď2017 Chris ColemanĒ style performance yesterday. I wonder if thatís because Gunter was back in the side. I like Gunter but most of the time he was slowing play down, though he made a couple of forward passes that Iíve not seen him do for ages. This is a clear instruction by Giggs of course.

    We are not going to be beating Denmark with ease, they are a quality team. Iím really not sure what some people were expecting?!

    The U21s tomorrow have a real test on their hands against a Portugal side with Jota leading the line!
    That was a typical Gunter Reading type performance. He moved forward with the ball, checked, turned around and ran backwards before passing the ball back or at best sideways. It kills the momentum. There was no need to drop Brooks. I think Gunter has done well to win 89 caps. It really is time for a change.

  8. #8

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    That was a typical Gunter Reading type performance. He moved forward with the ball, checked, turned around and ran backwards before passing the ball back or at best sideways. It kills the momentum. There was no need to drop Brooks. I think Gunter has done well to win 89 caps. It really is time for a change.
    Depends on what style you want to play and how much of the ball you are expecting to enjoy. For example, I imagine Gunter's positional sense and safe style on the ball is a better option if we were playing against a Belgium side away whereas Ireland at home absolutely called for different option - or at least Gunter playing 3rd CB rather than RB/RWB.

    I thought we could have made greater use of Ledley and Vokes yesterday. As individuals they are not the most exciting but Ledley could have sat between back line and Ampadu/Allen slightly higher, or at least higher without the risk of leaving massive gap behind, while Vokes could have been used to play in Bale and Lawrence/Ramsey. Might not suit the high press or long term thinking Giggs wanted to employ but I doubt Eriksen would have scored that first goal and then Vokes as a useful Plan B.

  9. #9

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    Depends on what style you want to play and how much of the ball you are expecting to enjoy. For example, I imagine Gunter's positional sense and safe style on the ball is a better option if we were playing against a Belgium side away whereas Ireland at home absolutely called for different option - or at least Gunter playing 3rd CB rather than RB/RWB.

    I thought we could have made greater use of Ledley and Vokes yesterday. As individuals they are not the most exciting but Ledley could have sat between back line and Ampadu/Allen slightly higher, or at least higher without the risk of leaving massive gap behind, while Vokes could have been used to play in Bale and Lawrence/Ramsey. Might not suit the high press or long term thinking Giggs wanted to employ but I doubt Eriksen would have scored that first goal and then Vokes as a useful Plan B.
    Agree about horses for courses. Leaving Eriksen unmarked in the penalty box is never a good idea. Iím a bit fed up with Gunter, Heís not great. He doesnít stop crosses often enough and backs off too often, Too many poor Reading performances for me.

  10. #10

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Think people are being a bit harsh on Gunter - his presence may have been one of many reasons why we didn't play as well as we did on Thursday, but it's a pretty small one. A bigger reason for me was the decision to play Roberts as far forward as that (I would have preferred to see Brooks keep his place or Harry Wilson given a start) - I might be wrong here, but I don't think he has played in that position for the jacks before has he?

    However, what is known for certain is that Wales had used a very demanding approach physically against the Irish less than seventy two hours earlier and now, with eight of the outfield players who had started against the Irish in from the start, were facing an away game (after having their flight out to Denmark delayed) against higher ranked opponents who had not played a game for more than a week in most cases - this seems a better explanation of what happened than trying to put it down to the performance of individual members of the team.

  11. #11

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    Agree about horses for courses. Leaving Eriksen unmarked in the penalty box is never a good idea. I’m a bit fed up with Gunter, He’s not great. He doesn’t stop crosses often enough and backs off too often, Too many poor Reading performances for me.
    That's fair comment. I'd always be willing to listen to someone like yourself, who sees the player on a week-in-week-out basis. However, I wouldn't swap our team for Denmark's. Denmark hit so many stray passes, directly into touch or simply not finding their man.

  12. #12

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    This is a recurring theme. Rambo is the same.
    At least Bale still releases the ball, Ramsey can be infuriating with the amount of touches he takes for no good reason

  13. #13

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Think people are being a bit harsh on Gunter - his presence may have been one of many reasons why we didn't play as well as we did on Thursday, but it's a pretty small one. A bigger reason for me was the decision to play Roberts as far forward as that (I would have preferred to see Brooks keep his place or Harry Wilson given a start) - I might be wrong here, but I don't think he has played in that position for the jacks before has he?

    However, what is known for certain is that Wales had used a very demanding approach physically against the Irish less than seventy two hours earlier and now, with eight of the outfield players who had started against the Irish in from the start, were facing an away game (after having their flight out to Denmark delayed) against higher ranked opponents who had not played a game for more than a week in most cases - this seems a better explanation of what happened than trying to put it down to the performance of individual members of the team.
    Roberts played there for Swansea against Leeds

  14. #14

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    Roberts played there for Swansea against Leeds
    still think we had better options in that position than him though.

  15. #15

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    still think we had better options in that position than him though.
    Harry Wilson

  16. #16

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Harry Wilson
    Wilson, Brooks, Woodburn, Tyler Roberts plays there for Leeds.

    Many options

  17. #17

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    still think we had better options in that position than him though.
    Definitely, but I understand what Giggs was trying to do in nullifying the Danish right flank. It worked pretty well until we had to chase the game

  18. #18

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    Definitely, but I understand what Giggs was trying to do in nullifying the Danish right flank. It worked pretty well until we had to chase the game
    We missed Brooks who likes to comes deep to pick up the ball, and he can also take on player. He's going to be a real talent in a year or too. Position wise, on the right I would say Wilson is the most similar player. Woodburn likes it out on the left or a more central position. With Roberts stuck in midfield he couldn't do his overlaps as effectively as the previous game. Giggs learns from this, as we were a bit lacking going forward down the right, which is where we decimated Ireland.

  19. #19

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    We missed Brooks who likes to comes deep to pick up the ball, and he can also take on player. He's going to be a real talent in a year or too. Position wise, on the right I would say Wilson is the most similar player. Woodburn likes it out on the left or a more central position. With Roberts stuck in midfield he couldn't do his overlaps as effectively as the previous game. Giggs learns from this, as we were a bit lacking going forward down the right, which is where we decimated Ireland.
    That was the point of playing Gunter & Roberts. Denamrk's right flank are pacy and like to get forward and have a real talent in Sisto (who, fortunately for us, was shite). If we played with an inside forward in Brooks and an attacking full back in Roberts odds are we'd have been overrun on that flank again and again

    I don't necessarily agree with Giggs' decision, but I can understand why he did it. Its good that he tried something different rather than just throw in the same 11, it shows he's ready to change things around from game to game rather than just go with the tried and tested

  20. #20

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    That was the point of playing Gunter & Roberts. Denamrk's right flank are pacy and like to get forward and have a real talent in Sisto (who, fortunately for us, was shite). If we played with an inside forward in Brooks and an attacking full back in Roberts odds are we'd have been overrun on that flank again and again

    I don't necessarily agree with Giggs' decision, but I can understand why he did it. Its good that he tried something different rather than just throw in the same 11, it shows he's ready to change things around from game to game rather than just go with the tried and tested
    In that case we could have gone with a 3 man defence.

    Hennessy

    Chester - Ampadu - Mepham

    Roberts - Allen - Smith - Davies

    Brooks - Bale - Lawrence

  21. #21

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Which could morph into this depending on the state of play.

    Hennessey

    Roberts - Chester - Mepham - Davies

    Ampadu

    Brooks - Allen - Smith - Lawrence

    Bale

  22. #22

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    In that case we could have gone with a 3 man defence.

    Hennessy

    Chester - Ampadu - Mepham

    Roberts - Allen - Smith - Davies

    Brooks - Bale - Lawrence
    Dropping Ramsey? Giggs wouldn't have done that in a million years and this still leaves the attacking combo of Roberts & Brooks on the right. The Gunter/Roberts thing worked until we conceded, Gunter should have come off rather than Roberts imo although he could have been tired following Thursday

  23. #23

    Re: Events conspire against Wales, but better team wins on the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    Dropping Ramsey? Giggs wouldn't have done that in a million years and this still leaves the attacking combo of Roberts & Brooks on the right. The Gunter/Roberts thing worked until we conceded, Gunter should have come off rather than Roberts imo although he could have been tired following Thursday
    You praised Giggs for trying something different. This is my alternative suggestion for trying something different. Roberts has defensive duties in my lineup, his job is to nullify the threat down the right that you have identified, with Chester behind him instead of Gunter. I have even included an extra defensive midfielder in Smith. So that is six defensive minded players in the team. Davies and Roberts can get forward if we are in a good attacking position, but that is not their main function for this match. There are three flair players in the side to attack on the break, who can be supported by Roberts, Allen and Davies when we transition.

    So we can't drop Ramsey? Are we back to the old days where certain players are picked come what may? I've just chosen a side specifically to face Denmark away, the 9th best team in the world, with an emphasis on nullifying their creative players. Now you tell me I have to include Ramsey in my tream Sorry, I want to include Brooks and Lawrence who can track back into midfield, collect the ball from deeper positions, can play as wide men or centrally, and can interchange positions. They would be more flexible in this situation. Ramsey is good, but this is a one-off selection, and I have replaced him with Smith on this particular occasion due to the threat of Eriksen.

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