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Thread: Genuine question for leavers

  1. #1

    Genuine question for leavers

    Is this the brexit you voted for?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...trade-deal-nhs

    The reason I ask is because this is 100% the brexit I most feared and I think we are looking more and more like getting it thrust upon us.

  2. #2

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    I voted leave because the EU is undemocratic, unaccountable, dominated by bullying Germany and in my opinion the stepping stone to a fascistic one-world corporatocracy.

    So no.

  3. #3

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by severncity View Post
    I voted leave because the EU is undemocratic, unaccountable, dominated by bullying Germany and in my opinion the stepping stone to a fascistic one-world corporatocracy.

    So no.
    Does that mean you didn't mind what came after leaving because in your view it couldn't be worse than where we were headed within the EU?

  4. #4

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    I voted to stay ,and would easily vote to go ,all the experts come up with endless statements but no counterproductive plan.

    Easiest thing in the world is to stand on the sidelines and say or this is rubbish .

    Strangely May's plan has moved more towards a more centralist view , so why they all can't grab a cross party consensus to provide a deal is beyond me , however if they did it puts at jeopardy those agendas wanting to use this as general election tool , and power grab , bugger what the people voted for, and what might happen if we did crash out .

  5. #5

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    On the one hand, leavers didn't really know what deal they were voting for and, on the other hand, remainers weren't really voting for the way the EU is inexorably heading...

  6. #6

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Does this mean we going to become a part of the USA? The free movement sounds interesting, now we can all live the American Dream. We should have done this long ago, we have much in common.

  7. #7

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by severncity View Post
    I voted leave because the EU is undemocratic, unaccountable, dominated by bullying Germany and in my opinion the stepping stone to a fascistic one-world corporatocracy.

    So no.
    I never really understood this corporatocracy argument - the EU has done more to tackle the excesses of multinationals than anyone, and certainly more than the UK could ever achieve by itself.

  8. #8

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I never really understood this corporatocracy argument - the EU has done more to tackle the excesses of multinationals than anyone, and certainly more than the UK could ever achieve by itself.
    Try reading about it and you may understand it if you are clever enough.

  9. #9

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by severncity View Post
    Try reading about it and you may understand it if you are clever enough.
    I have read about it, and the narrative that is being put forward doesn't appear to be backed up by what is actually happening.

  10. #10

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I have read about it, and the narrative that is being put forward doesn't appear to be backed up by what is actually happening.
    Read these then

    http://www.europeanfinancialreview.com/?p=6074

    https://www.mondialisation.ca/the-ri...ocracy/5532097

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ceta-eu-canada

  11. #11

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Yes I have read articles like this, and I certainly agree that the rising scale and power of these mega corporations needs to be countered.
    The EU is one of the only bodies that is willing to stand up to them though (China aside but let's not go down that road) in terms of workers rights, taxation, data protection, market manipulation and a raft of other areas name any country who has done more to tackle the excesses of multinationals?

  12. #12

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Yes I have read articles like this, and I certainly agree that the rising scale and power of these mega corporations needs to be countered.
    The EU is one of the only bodies that is willing to stand up to them though (China aside but let's not go down that road) in terms of workers rights, taxation, data protection, market manipulation and a raft of other areas name any country who has done more to tackle the excesses of multinationals?
    Well last time I looked youth unemployment was around 25% in most southern EU countries, the minimum wage in most countries is barely enough to live on, the EU allows offshoring of profits and revenues to avoid corporation tax and the ex head of the EU lobbies for Goldman Sachs while he is in the job.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/21/gold...-lobbying.html

    The so-called workers benefits, other than the EU time directive, sick pay and holiday pay, add up to very little. Remember when people had a job for life? With pension, holiday and sick pay? It is because the EU has enabled huge corporations to shift work to countries with lower wages and promote the gig economy that rights have been eroded.

    And I can name a country that has done more than the EU to protect workers from corporations. Iceland.

  13. #13

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by severncity View Post
    Well last time I looked youth unemployment was around 25% in most southern EU countries, the minimum wage in most countries is barely enough to live on, the EU allows offshoring of profits and revenues to avoid corporation tax and the ex head of the EU lobbies for Goldman Sachs while he is in the job.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/21/gold...-lobbying.html

    The so-called workers benefits, other than the EU time directive, sick pay and holiday pay, add up to very little. Remember when people had a job for life? With pension, holiday and sick pay? It is because the EU has enabled huge corporations to shift work to countries with lower wages and promote the gig economy that rights have been eroded.

    And I can name a country that has done more than the EU to protect workers from corporations. Iceland.
    Like all skilled illusionists, the EU are good at making you think they are doing something by saying one thing and doing another.

  14. #14

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by severncity View Post
    Well last time I looked youth unemployment was around 25% in most southern EU countries, the minimum wage in most countries is barely enough to live on, the EU allows offshoring of profits and revenues to avoid corporation tax and the ex head of the EU lobbies for Goldman Sachs while he is in the job.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/21/gold...-lobbying.html

    The so-called workers benefits, other than the EU time directive, sick pay and holiday pay, add up to very little. Remember when people had a job for life? With pension, holiday and sick pay? It is because the EU has enabled huge corporations to shift work to countries with lower wages and promote the gig economy that rights have been eroded.

    And I can name a country that has done more than the EU to protect workers from corporations. Iceland.
    The EU identified that Apple weren't paying enough tax in Ireland and made them repay it, something which wasn't being pursued by the Irish government itself. On numerous times it has attempted to bring in laws clamping down on multinationals ability to export profits to low tax countries, but has been vetoed at every turn by, yes you guessed it, the UK.
    In the meantime the UK has slashed corporation tax and actually purposefully made it easier to export profits in an attempt to be a patsy to the multinationals. After brexit this is only going to get worse.

  15. #15

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    The EU identified that Apple weren't paying enough tax in Ireland and made them repay it, something which wasn't being pursued by the Irish government itself. On numerous times it has attempted to bring in laws clamping down on multinationals ability to export profits to low tax countries, but has been vetoed at every turn by, yes you guessed it, the UK.
    In the meantime the UK has slashed corporation tax and actually purposefully made it easier to export profits in an attempt to be a patsy to the multinationals. After brexit this is only going to get worse.
    Only if we allow it! Don't throw away your pussy hat, it will come in handy later, and I will be marching alongside you (minus the pussy hat)

  16. #16

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    The EU is not a real community of fairness, some countries do not apply the same rules , pay poor minimum wages ,others don't pay benefits straight out (IE have longer qualifying periods ) , or provide total free health , poorer pensions .

    What has always annoyed me is that we do the right thing every time,apply every rule .

    I also wonder if Europe has secretly like the fact their poorer nations flow into us as our benefits, free health , and better minimum wages are better than most. ( we never got thanked for that one )

    You now see supermarkets starting to stock more UK British flagged product's, hey this might at least kick start our farming,fishing industries back into life and create jobs,and what may follow that ??

  17. #17

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Only if we allow it! Don't throw away your pussy hat, it will come in handy later, and I will be marching alongside you (minus the pussy hat)
    No Matter how much an Independent Britain is interested in tackling the power of multinationals, our ability to do so is drastically reduced Vs what it would be within the EU.
    Also the only people predicting any kind of a rosy future after brexit are doing so on the assumption that we will be pandering to multinationals much more than we already do.

  18. #18

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    The EU is not a real community of fairness, some countries do not apply the same rules , pay poor minimum wages ,others don't pay benefits straight out (IE have longer qualifying periods ) , or provide total free health , poorer pensions .

    What has always annoyed me is that we do the right thing every time,apply every rule .

    I also wonder if Europe has secretly like the fact their poorer nations flow into us as our benefits, free health , and better minimum wages are better than most. ( we never got thanked for that one )

    You now see supermarkets starting to stock more UK British flagged product's, hey this might at least kick start our farming,fishing industries back into life and create jobs,and what may follow that ??
    Our benefits and minimum wages are certainly not better than a lot of our near neighbours.
    Also the EU increasing the prosperity of eastern European countries has a reductive effect on immigration

  19. #19

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Our benefits and minimum wages are certainly not better than a lot of our near neighbours.
    Also the EU increasing the prosperity of eastern European countries has a reductive effect on immigration
    I was referring to the likes of Poland and Romania have a look at some of the data in this link

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_minimum_wage

  20. #20

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    No deal gets closer! Yay! god bless Brexit and taking back control, those blue passports made in France all seem so worth this utter farce eh!

  21. #21

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    No deal gets closer! Yay! god bless Brexit and taking back control, those blue passports made in France all seem so worth this utter farce eh!
    Brexiteers playing such a dirty game today. This 'europe is bullying us' thing is such bollocks and so divisive but their core support will lap it up.

  22. #22

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Brexiteers playing such a dirty game today. This 'europe is bullying us' thing is such bollocks and so divisive but their core support will lap it up.
    I voted Remain and I think Europe is bullying us!!

    Both Remainers and Brexiteers have played dirty games at times.

  23. #23

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    I voted Remain and I think Europe is bullying us!!

    Both Remainers and Brexiteers have played dirty games at times.
    Maybe you can explain it to me because I just don't see it.

  24. #24

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    I voted Remain and I think Europe is bullying us!!

    Both Remainers and Brexiteers have played dirty games at times.
    I am sure that when we start to negotiate trade deals with the US, China and India they will never seek to exploit the weakness of our position in the same way those nasty Europeans are doing!

  25. #25

    Re: Genuine question for leavers

    Where's the alternative plan ,it is so easy to sit on the sidelines and say that won't work ,or we are trying to protect jobs , its just populist soundbite, yes the government has made a pigs ear of this,however, whatever was proposed was always going to get kicked back.

    Instead of short media grabbing soundbite statements , why doesnt Europe and /or the opposition actually publish an actual counter plan to the one on the table .

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