Abuse accustations against Supreme Court nominee Judge Kavanaugh

[the other bob wilson]

I thought Dr Ford made a more sympathetic and convincing witness than Judge Kavanaugh, but haven't got a clue as to whether there was any truth in her allegations or not. My natural anti Trump instincts made me hope they were true, but, like anyone else who wasn't there, I have to rely on guesswork.

Therefore, it's interesting to see that, apart from one Republican and one Democrat who voted the "wrong" way, thereby cancelling each other out, the vote yesterday went along on completely predictable lines with party politics being the deciding factor in 98% of the voters - all seems quite "swampish" to me.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/05/p...ote/index.html

It was the same on here with it being easy to predict who all bar one of the contributors to this thread (TBG) were siding with before reading what they had to say - just seeing their names was enough to know. Before anyone accuses me of arrogantly putting myself above such things, I should say that I'm as guilty of it as anyone, but, unlike the person with has over 10,000 posts against his name and 90 per cent of them, at least, must be about American politics, I like to think I can admit when I'm wrong and do not believe, as is indicated in everything he posts on the subject, that one side is completely in the right and the other completely in the wrong - the world is becoming a f*cked up place and I dread to think where it's going to end unless people, myself included, become better at seeing the other side of an argument.

[Wales-Bales]

I thought Dr Ford made a more sympathetic and convincing witness than Judge Kavanaugh

So did I! She had my sympathy too, but now we are seeing the underlying theme is the same as the Trump Russia Collusion narrative. The lawyer representing Ford's high school friend was involved with the Clinton investigation and the Russia collusion investigation, until he abruptly left the DOJ national security division.

Since most of the posts in the Trump thread are about corruption and collusion of one sort of another, it is to be expected that those talking about it will have one kind of view or another. Furthermore, I only took an interest in this topic because I realised that it goes much further than American politics. The networks involved are global, and the same frameworks are being used in many countries. Therefore any wrongdoing uncovered in the American system will have global ramifications. We have already seen other countries pleading with Trump not to release the Carter Page FISA warrant information which implicates the Obama administration.

Personally, I wish it was all over and we could get back to normal. In fact, I originally thought that it would all be over fairly soon, but I didn't realise the full complexity of the issue, or that the system is set up to defend itself over all other interests. The media don't make things any any easier either, as they are usually complicit in any false narratives. The end result is that many people don't have a clue about what is really going on. The Americans are slowly getting there, and that is how an outsider got into the White House, but we still have a lot to learn about the ways of the world.

[the other bob wilson]

So did I! She had my sympathy too, but now we are seeing the underlying theme is the same as the Trump Russia Collusion narrative. The lawyer representing Ford's high school friend was involved with the Clinton investigation and the Russia collusion investigation, until he abruptly left the DOJ national security division.

Since most of the posts in the Trump thread are about corruption and collusion of one sort of another, it is to be expected that those talking about it will have one kind of view or another. Furthermore, I only took an interest in this topic because I realised that it goes much further than American politics. The networks involved are global, and the same frameworks are being used in many countries. Therefore any wrongdoing uncovered in the American system will have global ramifications. We have already seen other countries pleading with Trump not to release the Carter Page FISA warrant information which implicates the Obama administration.

Personally, I wish it was all over and we could get back to normal. In fact, I originally thought that it would all be over fairly soon, but I didn't realise the full complexity of the issue, or that the system is set up to defend itself over all other interests. The media don't make things any any easier either, as they are usually complicit in any false narratives. The end result is that many people don't have a clue about what is really going on. The Americans are slowly getting there, and that is how an outsider got into the White House, but we still have a lot to learn about the ways of the world.

There you go proving my point.

[Wales-Bales]

There you go proving my point.

In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.

I can see you are going to keep your blinkers on until the bitter end.

So let's just play the long game ...

[Wales-Bales]

There you go proving my point.

BTW if I am proving your point, then you have to disprove mine, so why don't you start throwing some facts back at me and we can compare notes.

[the other bob wilson]

BTW if I am proving your point, then you have to disprove mine, so why don't you start throwing some facts back at me and we can compare notes.

As I said in my post from a few days ago, I would like it for the allegations to be the truth, but I honestly don't know if they are, how can any of us who were not there say for certain that they are? One thing I'm certain of though is that if Kavanaugh was facing exactly the same accusations in exactly the same circumstances as a Democrat nominated by a Democratic President, your attitude would be one hundred and eighty degrees different to what it is now - you'd be adamant that the accusations were true.

[Wales-Bales]

As I said in my post from a few days ago, I would like it for the allegations to be the truth, but I honestly don't know if they are, how can any of us who were not there say for certain that they are? One thing I'm certain of though is that if Kavanaugh was facing exactly the same accusations in exactly the same circumstances as a Democrat nominated by a Democratic President, your attitude would be one hundred and eighty degrees different to what it is now - you'd be adamant that the accusations were true.

That's not true. Bill Clinton was my favourite US President, and I have criticized the Bushes on many occasions. I recalibrated my opinions when I started hearing about all the Clinton corruption, and things like the Epstein island, etc.. Yep, I had to do a 180° turn, but I don't hate the Democrats since I am a Corbyn supporter, although I am less keen on the Blairites for obvious reasons.

Secondly, I am debating issues I consider to be true. If I didn't think they were true I wouldn't be arguing them. My observations are based on official government documents and statements from high ranking government employees. I get it that you think the points I make are not true and show evidence of bias, because they don't match up with your perceived facts. So ultimately you believe that your sources of information are superior to mine. That's fair enough, and I understand that you probably feel comforted knowing that your knowledge is backed up by such powerhouses of truth such as the Guardian, BBC, Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, etc., but I should remind you that this is the hill that lardy chose to die on regarding his Trump Russia Collusion Delusion theories.

[the other bob wilson]

That's not true. Bill Clinton was my favourite US President, and I have criticized the Bushes on many occasions. I recalibrated my opinions when I started hearing about all the Clinton corruption, and things like the Epstein island, etc.. Yep, I had to do a 180° turn, but I don't hate the Democrats since I am a Corbyn supporter, although I am less keen on the Blairites for obvious reasons.

Secondly, I am debating issues I consider to be true. If I didn't think they were true I wouldn't be arguing them. My observations are based on official government documents and statements from high ranking government employees. I get it that you think the points I make are not true and show evidence of bias, because they don't match up with your perceived facts. So ultimately you believe that your sources of information are superior to mine. That's fair enough, and I understand that you probably feel comforted knowing that your knowledge is backed up by such powerhouses of truth such as the Guardian, BBC, Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, etc., but I should remind you that this is the hill that lardy chose to die on regarding his Trump Russia Collusion Delusion theories.

Of course it's true and I've got the evidence of what seems like decades of your messages on here to back me up.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

I thought Dr Ford made a more sympathetic and convincing witness than Judge Kavanaugh, but haven't got a clue as to whether there was any truth in her allegations or not. My natural anti Trump instincts made me hope they were true, but, like anyone else who wasn't there, I have to rely on guesswork.

Therefore, it's interesting to see that, apart from one Republican and one Democrat who voted the "wrong" way, thereby cancelling each other out, the vote yesterday went along on completely predictable lines with party politics being the deciding factor in 98% of the voters - all seems quite "swampish" to me.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/05/p...ote/index.html

It was the same on here with it being easy to predict who all bar one of the contributors to this thread (TBG) were siding with before reading what they had to say - just seeing their names was enough to know. Before anyone accuses me of arrogantly putting myself above such things, I should say that I'm as guilty of it as anyone, but, unlike the person with has over 10,000 posts against his name and 90 per cent of them, at least, must be about American politics, I like to think I can admit when I'm wrong and do not believe, as is indicated in everything he posts on the subject, that one side is completely in the right and the other completely in the wrong - the world is becoming a f*cked up place and I dread to think where it's going to end unless people, myself included, become better at seeing the other side of an argument.

Hasn't it always been this way? One would have to be dependent on the opposing party thinking in a rational and honest way and no-one really trusts each other that much. Being reasonable has taken a kicking in recent years but it's underpinned by a partisan and almost religious fervour that is never far beneath the surface (and is often on the surface).