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Thread: Bournemouth

  1. #1

    Bournemouth

    Proof that a small club with very little standout history, small crowd capacity, and very few superstars can not only get to the premier league, but stay there, and even get up to 7th in the table.
    What’s the secret?

  2. #2

    Re: Bournemouth

    Thé secret is a very rich owner who’s spend way over the odds plus a talented manager.

  3. #3

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Thé secret is a very rich owner who’s spend way over the odds plus a talented manager.
    And maintaining the myth they hardly spend.

  4. #4

    Re: Bournemouth

    They spent 19m in the first summer they went up. Funnily enough Tomlin and Bennett were both in their squad that year, and Arter of course.

    They won 2 out of their first 7 games and drew 1 = 7 points compared to our 2.

    They then lost 5 out of the next 6, leaving them in 18th with 8 points.

    They ended up winning 3 on the bounce after that, including wins against Chelsea and Man Utd and finished the first half of the season with 20 points.

    It's doable, but we need to start winning home games at the minimum. 7 points out of the next three home games (Fulham, Leicester, Brighton) will stand us in good stead - perhaps 1 point picked up against Spurs/Liverpool/Everton.

    Wishful thinking at this stage but it is doable with the squad we have. Route one is certainly not working and hopefully Warnock has realised that and will encourage throwing it to a player 5 yards away instead of 50.

  5. #5

    Re: Bournemouth

    They built slowly from Division 4 playing football. They got better and better each year. It's a good recipe for success.

  6. #6

    Re: Bournemouth

    Playing style identity. Long term plan and a talented manager given time. It’s that simple.

  7. #7

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolff View Post
    Playing style identity. Long term plan and a talented manager given time. It’s that simple.
    Eagles bossed the game for long periods in second half. They also passed and pressed in a way that we could never do. What’s their “philosophy”?

  8. #8

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by The Charterhouse of Parma View Post
    Eagles bossed the game for long periods in second half. They also passed and pressed in a way that we could never do. What’s their “philosophy”?
    Thought the question was what have Bournemouth done.

  9. #9

    Re: Bournemouth

    Was impressed by Brooks last night. Playing in a more of a midfield role, he showed good defensive discipline and awareness allied to the attacking skills he is better known for - on that evidence, he could be effective for his country playing in a more withdrawn wide role or even, possibly, in central midfield.

  10. #10

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Thé secret is a very rich owner who’s spend way over the odds plus a talented manager.
    According to Transfermarkt they spent:
    15/16 €55m
    16/17 €40m
    17/18 €34m
    18/19 €51m

    They slowly sold off some players like Ritchie and Grabban but they also had the third highest wage bill in the division when they went up, of over £30m. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...ship-hgbkbt38t. They're now mid-table in terms of wage bills, and that's where they'll likely finish!

  11. #11

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolff View Post
    Thought the question was what have Bournemouth done.
    It was, but thought it appropriate to look at other teams in the “possible to beat” category.

  12. #12

    Re: Bournemouth

    Plenty of smaller clubs manage it.

    Huddersfield, Palace, Fulham previously, Swansea, Leicester won it ffs and aren't a much bigger club, not at the time at least.

    There isn't any reason why we couldn't be a mid table team at some point, it's about staying up and building from there. Few stay there indefinitely though.

    There are also a lot of similar sized clubs to us in the championship.

    Fine margins, a win against Burnley and things would have been brighter. We have been in most of our games, only Chelsea and man City have looked out of our league so far, we will pick up points, just need to start soon.

  13. #13

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    Plenty of smaller clubs manage it.

    Huddersfield, Palace, Fulham previously, Swansea, Leicester won it ffs and aren't a much bigger club, not at the time at least.

    There isn't any reason why we couldn't be a mid table team at some point, it's about staying up and building from there. Few stay there indefinitely though.

    There are also a lot of similar sized clubs to us in the championship.

    Fine margins, a win against Burnley and things would have been brighter. We have been in most of our games, only Chelsea and man City have looked out of our league so far, we will pick up points, just need to start soon.
    Size really doesn’t matter, does it? Of course you could build faster if you had better economy, but It really comes down to long term planning and philosophy. We went from Dave Jones football to Malky, then Ole, Slade, Trollope and now Warnock. There isn’t many similarities between those playing styles, and every time a manager leaves (hate them or love them), the club needs restructuring in stead of taking another step in the direction we are heading.

  14. #14

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    They built slowly from Division 4 playing football. They got better and better each year. It's a good recipe for success.
    We are going to end up in Division 4 the way we are playing!

  15. #15

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolff View Post
    Size really doesn’t matter, does it? Of course you could build faster if you had better economy, but It really comes down to long term planning and philosophy. We went from Dave Jones football to Malky, then Ole, Slade, Trollope and now Warnock. There isn’t many similarities between those playing styles, and every time a manager leaves (hate them or love them), the club needs restructuring in stead of taking another step in the direction we are heading.
    I agree Wolff and good to see you posting on here

  16. #16

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    I agree Wolff and good to see you posting on here
    Thanks mate 👍

  17. #17

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    I agree Wolff and good to see you posting on here
    Problem is, where do we go from Warnock? Undoubtedly he was the right man at the right time but we're going to need to move on. Having said that, he's actually brought in some half decent footballers in Reid, Murphy etc so maybe the transition won't be so bad.

  18. #18

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    Problem is, where do we go from Warnock? Undoubtedly he was the right man at the right time but we're going to need to move on. Having said that, he's actually brought in some half decent footballers in Reid, Murphy etc so maybe the transition won't be so bad.
    I don't think it needs to be as disruptive as many are making out.

    Once again I have to point to the example of Swansea. Though they probably have stumbled into the situation in many respects, nevertheless they built a very strong Cat 1 u23 squad that played a very different style of football to the first team under Clement, Bobley etc.

    Now they have brought in a very competent manager who plays in line with the club's old philosophy and he is a manager who is willing to coach and develop players.

    Their 3 scorers Saturday came from last year's u23s.

    We need to do something similar but the u23s seem to be instructed by Warnock to play similarly to the first team, which is a departure from what they were doing a couple of years ago.

    Perhaps I underestimate what is going on and maybe Bellamy is keeping this crop of 18s together with that in mind.
    There are two problems with this though. Firstly, we are a Cat 2 academy so the players are not being tested against the best players in the country and secondly I think you'll find that most of the opposition our 18s are playing against week in week out are not 18 but more like 16 and are being pushed to advance themselves.

    If this u18 group were really special they should be playing u23 football now.

  19. #19

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    I don't think it needs to be as disruptive as many are making out.

    Once again I have to point to the example of Swansea. Though they probably have stumbled into the situation in many respects, nevertheless they built a very strong Cat 1 u23 squad that played a very different style of football to the first team under Clement, Bobley etc.

    Now they have brought in a very competent manager who plays in line with the club's old philosophy and he is a manager who is willing to coach and develop players.

    Their 3 scorers Saturday came from last year's u23s.

    We need to do something similar but the u23s seem to be instructed by Warnock to play similarly to the first team, which is a departure from what they were doing a couple of years ago.

    Perhaps I underestimate what is going on and maybe Bellamy is keeping this crop of 18s together with that in mind.
    There are two problems with this though. Firstly, we are a Cat 2 academy so the players are not being tested against the best players in the country and secondly I think you'll find that most of the opposition our 18s are playing against week in week out are not 18 but more like 16 and are being pushed to advance themselves.

    If this u18 group were really special they should be playing u23 football now.
    I thought Warnock didn't think u23 football was worth anything, so he's holding some back in the u18s. I think he's said that anyone likely to break into the first team will likely come from the u18s. Hopefully, with the absolute wedge we're going to get from this season, we can invest into a Cat 1 academy, not lose players like Rabbi Matondo on the cheap, and kick on. Do think that being Welsh gives us a slight disadvantage at times, becuase our younger players are much more likely to play international football at youth level and therefore are trust into the spotlight.

    Still, hopefully a few wins and we can buy Rodon and Roberts for peanuts as they're both out of contract in the summer

  20. #20

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    I don't think it needs to be as disruptive as many are making out.

    Once again I have to point to the example of Swansea. Though they probably have stumbled into the situation in many respects, nevertheless they built a very strong Cat 1 u23 squad that played a very different style of football to the first team under Clement, Bobley etc.

    Now they have brought in a very competent manager who plays in line with the club's old philosophy and he is a manager who is willing to coach and develop players.

    Their 3 scorers Saturday came from last year's u23s.

    We need to do something similar but the u23s seem to be instructed by Warnock to play similarly to the first team, which is a departure from what they were doing a couple of years ago.

    Perhaps I underestimate what is going on and maybe Bellamy is keeping this crop of 18s together with that in mind.
    There are two problems with this though. Firstly, we are a Cat 2 academy so the players are not being tested against the best players in the country and secondly I think you'll find that most of the opposition our 18s are playing against week in week out are not 18 but more like 16 and are being pushed to advance themselves.

    If this u18 group were really special they should be playing u23 football now.
    The video of the Watford game on the weekend shows one of the visiting players who looks an awful lot younger and smaller than his team mates, so I'm sure you're right, the teams we play at this level every week are not always made up of eighteen year olds.

    However, the inference of what you say about our team is that they are all "old" by the standards of the league they play in - this struck me as wrong, so I decided to look into it.

    The team which played on Saturday was missing the best player in the under 18 squad in my opinion, Sion Spence - he was eighteen yesterday as it turns out. Also absent since very early in the season has been Keenan Patten who, with Spence and Sam Bowen makes up a very good central midfield three for this level - Keenan was born on 7/4/01, so, at seventeen, he's eligible to play for the Under 18s next season.

    The team which played Watford contained one player, Nianza Mayembe, whose date of birth I could not find, but I can remember watching him play for our Under 16s against Swansea a couple of seasons ago (I met you at the game) and being told that he was 13 or 14 at that time, so, assuming that's true, he's got at least two seasons of being eligible for the Under 18s left.

    The oldest of the other ten starters on Saturday was keeper George Ratcliffe who only reached eighteen on 12 September, centreback Ryan Reynolds is three days younger than George and they are the only two out of the ten who are eighteen today. Another centreback, Trystan Jones, will be eighteen on Sunday, but if I've understood the rules correctly, those three (plus Spence) are the only ones who won't be available at this level next season.

    The rest are seventeen or under. Next oldest is captain Sam Bowen who was born on 14/1/01, while striker Dan Griffiths was born two days later. Recent signing from Southampton Joel Bagan won't be eighteen until the third of September next year and striker Isaak Davies only turned seventeen on the 25th of last month - so, that makes them eligible for another two seasons of Under 18 football I believe.

    The other three are 16 year old's Connor Davies (born 7/5/02) and Rubin Colwill (27/4/02) and Eli King, who won't be sixteen until 22 December.

    So, if the sides we are playing at youth level are including their fair share of under age players, then the same definitely applies with City. Most of these players were part of an Under 16 squad from a couple of seasons ago which struck me as, potentially, one of the best crops of youngsters I'd seen since we gained Academy status in 2004 and the intervening period has done nothing to make me change my mind.

    I'm not going to say that there are x number of players who will play for City's first team in our Under 18 squad and their names are......., but I'd be very disappointed if none of them go on to be professionals at senior level who play league football - based on recent years though, how likely is it that they will do so at Cardiff?

  21. #21

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    The video of the Watford game on the weekend shows one of the visiting players who looks an awful lot younger and smaller than his team mates, so I'm sure you're right, the teams we play at this level every week are not always made up of eighteen year olds.

    However, the inference of what you say about our team is that they are all "old" by the standards of the league they play in - this struck me as wrong, so I decided to look into it.

    The team which played on Saturday was missing the best player in the under 18 squad in my opinion, Sion Spence - he was eighteen yesterday as it turns out. Also absent since very early in the season has been Keenan Patten who, with Spence and Sam Bowen makes up a very good central midfield three for this level - Keenan was born on 7/4/01, so, at seventeen, he's eligible to play for the Under 18s next season.

    The team which played Watford contained one player, Nianza Mayembe, whose date of birth I could not find, but I can remember watching him play for our Under 16s against Swansea a couple of seasons ago (I met you at the game) and being told that he was 13 or 14 at that time, so, assuming that's true, he's got at least two seasons of being eligible for the Under 18s left.

    The oldest of the other ten starters on Saturday was keeper George Ratcliffe who only reached eighteen on 12 September, centreback Ryan Reynolds is three days younger than George and they are the only two out of the ten who are eighteen today. Another centreback, Trystan Jones, will be eighteen on Sunday, but if I've understood the rules correctly, those three (plus Spence) are the only ones who won't be available at this level next season.

    The rest are seventeen or under. Next oldest is captain Sam Bowen who was born on 14/1/01, while striker Dan Griffiths was born two days later. Recent signing from Southampton Joel Bagan won't be eighteen until the third of September next year and striker Isaak Davies only turned seventeen on the 25th of last month - so, that makes them eligible for another two seasons of Under 18 football I believe.

    The other three are 16 year old's Connor Davies (born 7/5/02) and Rubin Colwill (27/4/02) and Eli King, who won't be sixteen until 22 December.

    So, if the sides we are playing at youth level are including their fair share of under age players, then the same definitely applies with City. Most of these players were part of an Under 16 squad from a couple of seasons ago which struck me as, potentially, one of the best crops of youngsters I'd seen since we gained Academy status in 2004 and the intervening period has done nothing to make me change my mind.

    I'm not going to say that there are x number of players who will play for City's first team in our Under 18 squad and their names are......., but I'd be very disappointed if none of them go on to be professionals at senior level who play league football - based on recent years though, how likely is it that they will do so at Cardiff?
    Great research, fair play. Mayembe was born in 2003 so can't be more than 15 yet. Bellamy obviously felt he wasn't suited to the wing back role so let him play left wing in a 3-5-2/ 4-4-2 on Saturday which meant he could conserve his energy and he not only played the 90 minutes but finished strongly too. Excellent tactics and credit to the rest of the team for adapting to them.

    That's interesting that only a few lads will be coming up to the u-23s next season, I'd say two of them are big hitters in Reynolds and Spence, we'll need to make sure they're given every chance to develop properly next season if we can't get loan deals for them or (heaven forfend) they end up in the first team squad. Reynolds looks like a midfielder to me, centre-half seems too easy for him, but I've been very impressed. Looks like a strong character too, very promising. (It's ok, if we release him at the end of the season no one will remember where this post is to show me up).

    The Watford lad was tiny, yes. James Waite will bully him if they meet up at under-23 level.

  22. #22

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Loramski View Post
    Great research, fair play. Mayembe was born in 2003 so can't be more than 15 yet. Bellamy obviously felt he wasn't suited to the wing back role so let him play left wing in a 3-5-2/ 4-4-2 on Saturday which meant he could conserve his energy and he not only played the 90 minutes but finished strongly too. Excellent tactics and credit to the rest of the team for adapting to them.

    That's interesting that only a few lads will be coming up to the u-23s next season, I'd say two of them are big hitters in Reynolds and Spence, we'll need to make sure they're given every chance to develop properly next season if we can't get loan deals for them or (heaven forfend) they end up in the first team squad. Reynolds looks like a midfielder to me, centre-half seems too easy for him, but I've been very impressed. Looks like a strong character too, very promising. (It's ok, if we release him at the end of the season no one will remember where this post is to show me up).

    The Watford lad was tiny, yes. James Waite will bully him if they meet up at under-23 level.
    Thanks for that on Mayembe .

    I've seen Reynolds play in midfield once or twice and also at full back and I agree he has a touch of quality - having mentioned Spence, Bowen and Patten being a good central midfield combination, I'd say the same applies to Jones, Bagan and Reynolds as a trio of centrebacks.

    Connor Davies was still fifteen then when I saw him play at the Liberty Stadium in the Welsh Youth Cup Final in early May (seem to remember he got a yellow card) and he certainly wasn't intimidated by playing in a game where, like in the FA Youth Cup, older players such as Cameron Coxe, Mark Harris and James Waite were able to play.

    Other names I should have mentioned are right sided players Jac Davies who will be eighteen in February, while Ryan Kavanagh (who'll be sixteen on Monday) has played a few times this season and not looked out of place at all.

  23. #23

    Re: Bournemouth

    Fortunate to arrive at the top division at a time where gates and stadium capacity have significantly less impact on your budget than ever before?

  24. #24

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Fortunate to arrive at the top division at a time where gates and stadium capacity have significantly less impact on your budget than ever before?
    They've released a statement today saying, in effect, they can't afford to build a new stadium and hinting that they've basically not saved any money in case they go down.

  25. #25

    Re: Bournemouth

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    The video of the Watford game on the weekend shows one of the visiting players who looks an awful lot younger and smaller than his team mates, so I'm sure you're right, the teams we play at this level every week are not always made up of eighteen year olds.

    However, the inference of what you say about our team is that they are all "old" by the standards of the league they play in - this struck me as wrong, so I decided to look into it.

    The team which played on Saturday was missing the best player in the under 18 squad in my opinion, Sion Spence - he was eighteen yesterday as it turns out. Also absent since very early in the season has been Keenan Patten who, with Spence and Sam Bowen makes up a very good central midfield three for this level - Keenan was born on 7/4/01, so, at seventeen, he's eligible to play for the Under 18s next season.

    The team which played Watford contained one player, Nianza Mayembe, whose date of birth I could not find, but I can remember watching him play for our Under 16s against Swansea a couple of seasons ago (I met you at the game) and being told that he was 13 or 14 at that time, so, assuming that's true, he's got at least two seasons of being eligible for the Under 18s left.

    The oldest of the other ten starters on Saturday was keeper George Ratcliffe who only reached eighteen on 12 September, centreback Ryan Reynolds is three days younger than George and they are the only two out of the ten who are eighteen today. Another centreback, Trystan Jones, will be eighteen on Sunday, but if I've understood the rules correctly, those three (plus Spence) are the only ones who won't be available at this level next season.

    The rest are seventeen or under. Next oldest is captain Sam Bowen who was born on 14/1/01, while striker Dan Griffiths was born two days later. Recent signing from Southampton Joel Bagan won't be eighteen until the third of September next year and striker Isaak Davies only turned seventeen on the 25th of last month - so, that makes them eligible for another two seasons of Under 18 football I believe.

    The other three are 16 year old's Connor Davies (born 7/5/02) and Rubin Colwill (27/4/02) and Eli King, who won't be sixteen until 22 December.

    So, if the sides we are playing at youth level are including their fair share of under age players, then the same definitely applies with City. Most of these players were part of an Under 16 squad from a couple of seasons ago which struck me as, potentially, one of the best crops of youngsters I'd seen since we gained Academy status in 2004 and the intervening period has done nothing to make me change my mind.

    I'm not going to say that there are x number of players who will play for City's first team in our Under 18 squad and their names are......., but I'd be very disappointed if none of them go on to be professionals at senior level who play league football - based on recent years though, how likely is it that they will do so at Cardiff?
    That’s not “Shone” Spence as in Eleri “Shone”? (Daft bimbo on Radio Wales, S4C etc)

    Curious as he’s from darrrkest Barry isn’t he?? Didn’t think much WM demand down there other than Brother Morganuwg?

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