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Thread: America again.

  1. #91

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Good luck with that.

    You weren't wrong!

  2. #92

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen. You go to Florida to a ****ing theme park resort and act like you’ve got the feel of a whole country. It’s like going to Disney land Paris and thinking you’ve got an idea of the situation in the Ukraine because you’ve chatted to a few holiday makers by the pool.
    Oh Go on then, you must need some attention of me again, its sweet and all that, i guess i should feel flattered

    I will run with it


    Quote Originally Posted by steve davies View Post
    i have been over to the states a few times since hes been in power and its either people support him strongly or despise him with the same strength.
    Quote Originally Posted by JDerrida View Post
    Have to agree, having spent the last month in the States.
    There is little middle ground regarding Trump. Very few see him for what he's actually achieving, balanced against any actual negatives.
    Most can either see him do no wrong or do no right.
    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    I spent Aug in the US, from chatting to people in the pool or in a queue for a ride, it seems as you said, most Love or Hate him, nothing between , Trump supporters were always keen to tell you how much change he will make, Trump haters just wanted a Oversea's opinion on him and to point out that they were embarrassed by him
    So i was agreeing with JDerrida who was agreeing with Steve Davis, yet you felt the need to challenge my post ? ? its nice and all that, but you really need to move on now how ever did you cope in Aug when i didnt post

    But lets address the points you made

    Yes I did go to Disney world, At no point did i state i " got the feel of the whole country "
    What i said ( and you can re-read it, but do it slowly, you might understand it )
    from chatting to people in the pool or in a queue for a ride, it seems as you said, most Love or Hate him, nothing between

    Now these people i spoke to in the lines for rides or at the pool, were guess what, yes Americans, the demographic spread is massive at disney world, but a very high % are american, we find that when you are stood in front or behind someone in a line for a ride for 10 mins plus, they overhear our accents and often ask " Hey, where you guys from " then you get chatting, most Americans we spoke to were keen to discuss Trump, as i said, to either defend him or point out he was not the man they wanted


    your analogy about disneyland paris and the situation in the Ukraine is farcical, But you knew that anyway
    afterall, speaking to Americans in the US is not overly far fetched

    Glad to have cleared that up for you

  3. #93

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Apparently, the man who shot all of those people a few days ago sees Trump as part of the problem - he has not gone far enough in his opinion. So, in my view, to say that Trump is directly to blame for the shootings would be wrong, but indirectly to blame? I think that's different.

    When I started this thread, I wondered whether I should put it on the politics board, but decided not to because I thought of the various shootings at schools in America down the years which did not appear to have a political motive behind them, but the way this thread has developed shows that I got it wrong - in these days it seems almost everything is political.

    The Trump apologists in this thread (they can't stand him as a man of course) use the old excuse that the apparent perpetrators of the pipe bombs sent to individuals who have been critical of Donald Trump plan and the synagogue shootings are mentally unstable. To the extent that it looks downright odd to plaster your van in posters which would make you look guilty and to advertise what you were going to do on line, these actions, along with the intention to kill of course, do not mark either of them down as sane men.

    In the interests of fairness, it should also be pointed out that not all politically motivated killers come from the right, but this article shows that in the last quarter of century in America there have been much more killings from the political right than there have been from the left.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...s-on-u-s-soil/

    As for Donald Trump, I for one, find the implication carried by the "just blame it all on Trump" line insulting because it seems to me that it carries the assumption that critics of the man were unaware of him until he decided to run for President - that's not true in my case, I despised Donald Trump for all sorts of reasons for a couple of decades before that happened.

    In my opinion, Trump cannot escape blame for what we've seen in America from Cesar Sayoc and Robert Bowers because he uses wholly inappropriate language for someone in the position of great power and influence he finds himself in. In my lifetime, the President of America I can remember who comes closest to comparing to Trump in character is Richard Nixon - in some ways, such a comparison is unfair on Trump mind because he has not been found guilty of the sort of criminal activities Nixon was. However, I saw a programme over the weekend where it was said that Nixon had his mind changed over the Vietnam war when he left the White House to discuss that situation with anti war protesters who were outside the Presidential residence - I find it impossible to believe that Trump would even contemplate doing such a thing.

    Trump is unyielding in his opinions and gives no impression whatsoever that he could ever be talked around to a differing viewpoint on the core issues of his Presidency. One of the dangers of this approach is that weak and insecure people (nearly always men) can feel emboldened by such certainty as it helps to create a climate whereby potentially awful thoughts become transformed into actual deeds. We saw something similar in this country with the murder of Jo Cox during the referendum campaign two years ago and how anyone could be shocked by the rise in hate crime following that vote is beyond me given the tone used by some during that campaign.

    Trump is either unaware of or doesn't care about the consequences which might follow from some of the things he says - to me, that marks him down as a dangerous and divisive man.
    you say that Trump is indirectly to blame, that might be the case

    then go on a anti trump rant and blame him for other things

    Speaking to Americans at the time of the elections ( yes in disney again ) his supporters saw trump as a chance to change things, the political system in the us was just voting for the same old same old, people thought that trump might break that up a little

    Of course the guy is a idiot, yes is he also dividing the US again, imho the US has always been divided, The north and south divide has always been apparent, The US has a massive rich and poor issue, One thing Trump is doing well is appealing to his supporters, they still appear to feel his is one of them, he is, he is not part of the old political establishment

  4. #94

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
    My headquarters are in Minnesota

    Most of my colleagues believe the economic growth in the US was just a continuation of the Obama policies and while give trump credit for continuing them wonder why a 14% cut in corporation tax was needed... the economy was already stimulated!

    Adding 1.7 trillion dollars onto the deficit on an already stable and growing economy seems barmy. Especially when 90% of savings has gone to buying back shares in their own corporations. While the stock market has that kind of movement the markets react well .. but it’s all based on a deficit

    Additionally you have a republican president giving hand outs to farmers, a trationaly no-no for republicans and lambasted by republicans when democratic administrations done similar things as ‘socialism’

    To service the deficit the administration are attempting to cut social welfare funds

    The whole trump economic success is based on a lie and a seeking out the poorest of the poor

    Non partisan world economic experts expect a major US recession as the country comes to terms with a huge deficit, tax cuts that will not increase the working wages in line with inflation, trade wars that will eventually see jobs being lost and corporations gaining more and more power.

    Time will tell but the economic arguments for trump seem very short sighted
    It’s a generalization at a high level but don’t people have a very short sighted view of their own personal economic position?

  5. #95

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    This is just not true, the economy recovered under Obama and it continues under Trump. However, after Tump's new tax laws it's the corporations and the people at the top who see most of the money. Healthcare is becoming more expenisive, petrol is over a dollr more a gallon than it was 2 years ago, social programs are being cut, regulations have been slashed in the name of of job creation but it's really in the name of corporate profits. Poluted rivers, selling goverment land to energy companies. Private prisons. Even detaining immigants. ($745 per person per day to private companies on the taxpayers dime) It's all a huge con.
    If the election happened again tomorrow middle America would deliver the same result.

    The NE would be an outlier

  6. #96

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays View Post
    There's no doubt elements of the media push a narrative that will help them (more often that not it's the right that does this) but to suggest they're all a disgrace is disingenuous and misleading, and recently has become dangerous. If we were to have a purely fact based narrative a calmer voice is necessary.
    In the States, it's more like 90% favouring the left.

    They call it 'spinfluence'.

    Because people already have the perception of Trump, they will believe 'anything' that is put out by the media.

    Some of the comments on here attributed to Trump are just untrue or exaggeration. Obviously some true.

    I am no Trump supporter, but do like to see and seek the truth. I don't just accept what is being said about someone I dislike, just because of a blind bias.

    I can't stand the man since he allegedly bribed the Scottish Parliament, to accept his request to buy land for his golf courses on the East coast of Scotland.

    The Scottish Parliament and he and his actions around this stank very badly and how he treated local people near the golf course location was appalling. He's a bully.

    I certainly made a mistake about the disgusting human being that killed those poor people at the Synagogue. He is ultra right wing.

  7. #97

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDerrida View Post
    In the States, it's more like 90% favouring the left.

    They call it 'spinfluence'.

    Because people already have the perception of Trump, they will believe 'anything' that is put out by the media.

    Some of the comments on here attributed to Trump are just untrue or exaggeration. Obviously some true.

    I am no Trump supporter, but do like to see and seek the truth. I don't just accept what is being said about someone I dislike, just because of a blind bias.

    I can't stand the man since he allegedly bribed the Scottish Parliament, to accept his request to buy land for his golf courses on the East coast of Scotland.

    The Scottish Parliament and he and his actions around this stank very badly and how he treated local people near the golf course location was appalling. He's a bully.

    I certainly made a mistake about the disgusting human being that killed those poor people at the Synagogue. He is ultra right wing.
    Trouble is, so much of what makes people judge Trump the way they do comes from his own mouth. As I said earlier in this thread, I despised Trump in the nineties and noughties when I didn't have a clue what his politics were. True, I don't like his politics now I'm aware of them, but my original dislike of the man had nothing to do with left or right, it was down to the type of person he is - it's strange, but I just can't stand obnoxious, egotistical boors.

    Also, do you have anything in the form of proper evidence to back up your contention that 90% of the media in America favours the "left"?

  8. #98

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    If the election happened again tomorrow middle America would deliver the same result.

    The NE would be an outlier
    What? The person who got three million votes more (more that twice the margin leave won by in the Referendum) than the other contender would lose ?

  9. #99

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    And again today, Trump is tweeting that the Fake News Media are the true Enemy of the People. Continuing to fan the flames as best he can because it suits him.
    Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

    The Fake News is doing everything in their power to blame Republicans, Conservatives and me for the division and hatred that has been going on for so long in our Country. Actually, it is their Fake & Dishonest reporting which is causing problems far greater than they understand! There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame of Anger and Outrage and we will then be able to bring all sides together in Peace and Harmony. Fake News Must End!

    5:12 pm - 28 Oct 2018

  10. #100

    Re: America again.

    Trump has a point. Fake news lardy was continually spreading discord by pumping out fake news Trump Russia Collusion propaganda on a daily basis, and most people on here believed it!

  11. #101

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    What? The person who got three million votes more (more that twice the margin leave won by in the Referendum) than the other contender would lose ?
    Sorry. - I have no idea what you’re talking about

  12. #102

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

    The Fake News is doing everything in their power to blame Republicans, Conservatives and me for the division and hatred that has been going on for so long in our Country. Actually, it is their Fake & Dishonest reporting which is causing problems far greater than they understand! There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame of Anger and Outrage and we will then be able to bring all sides together in Peace and Harmony. Fake News Must End!

    5:12 pm - 28 Oct 2018
    Blame blame blame. Why doesn't he give examples? I've said the media aren't perfect but this just tars everyone with the same brush. Surely, if you're addressing divides you have to be more diplomatic? But no: "fake news", "enemy of the people." And no 'leftist filter' either, just straight from the horse's mouth.

  13. #103

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays View Post
    Blame blame blame. Why doesn't he give examples? I've said the media aren't perfect but this just tars everyone with the same brush. Surely, if you're addressing divides you have to be more diplomatic? But no: "fake news", "enemy of the people." And no 'leftist filter' either, just straight from the horse's mouth.
    The way I read it, he is saying you have some news organisations who partake in fake news, and some who don't. So he is saying those who do should cut it out. He is not blaming all news outlets, only those who play fast and loose with the truth, or something like that.

  14. #104

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    The way I read it, he is saying you have some news organisations who partake in fake news, and some who don't. So he is saying those who do should cut it out. He is not blaming all news outlets, only those who play fast and loose with the truth, or something like that.
    Even if that's true, it's not clear. Which news outlets? Fox News? Perhaps people are angry at the cheerleading of any Republican politician?

  15. #105

    Re: America again.

    Not sure about the comment from bluematt that trump is "one of them" unless it's common for parents to give their children hundreds of millions of dollars.

    He has never lived like common people.

  16. #106

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays View Post
    Even if that's true, it's not clear. Which news outlets? Fox News? Perhaps people are angry at the cheerleading of any Republican politician?
    The US media is currently running the story about trump saying he can change the Constitution to end birthright. He can't but the media aren't running the story as "Trump lies to stoke up immigration fear before the election" so I guess you can argue that they are fake news.

    If they were more honest, they would be reporting him as lying rather than using phrases like "didn't provide evidence to support his claim". He should be thanking them.

  17. #107

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Trouble is, so much of what makes people judge Trump the way they do comes from his own mouth. As I said earlier in this thread, I despised Trump in the nineties and noughties when I didn't have a clue what his politics were. True, I don't like his politics now I'm aware of them, but my original dislike of the man had nothing to do with left or right, it was down to the type of person he is - it's strange, but I just can't stand obnoxious, egotistical boors.

    Also, do you have anything in the form of proper evidence to back up your contention that 90% of the media in America favours the "left"?
    If that’s the case why did you vote for Neil McEvoy?

  18. #108

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Not sure about the comment from bluematt that trump is "one of them" unless it's common for parents to give their children hundreds of millions of dollars.

    He has never lived like common people.
    Sorry can’t resist....😂
    https://youtu.be/yuTMWgOduFM

  19. #109

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    Sorry. - I have no idea what you’re talking about
    All I'm saying is that the "same result" would see the candidate with the most votes losing because that's what happened first time around.

  20. #110

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by severncity View Post
    If that’s the case why did you vote for Neil McEvoy?
    Because he's a City fan, I also don't know as much about him as I do about Trump - this is a fairly minor thing, but it says so much about the sort of person Trump is;-

    -

  21. #111

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    All I'm saying is that the "same result" would see the candidate with the most votes losing because that's what happened first time around.
    Huh?

    "During the general election, Americans go to their polling place to cast their vote for president. But the tally of those votes — the popular vote — does not determine the winner. Instead, presidential elections use the Electoral College. To win the election, a candidate must receive a majority of electoral votes."

  22. #112

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Huh?

    During the general election, Americans go to their polling place to cast their vote for president. But the tally of those votes — the popular vote — does not determine the winner. Instead, presidential elections use the Electoral College. To win the election, a candidate must receive a majority of electoral votes.
    I know it doesn't, but it hardly strikes me as a great example of democracy in action when you can get anomalies like that - I'd say exactly the same thing if Clinton was now President with the election having gone the same way but with it being Trump who got three million more votes.

  23. #113

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Huh?

    "During the general election, Americans go to their polling place to cast their vote for president. But the tally of those votes — the popular vote — does not determine the winner. Instead, presidential elections use the Electoral College. To win the election, a candidate must receive a majority of electoral votes."
    The President's official spokesperson said yesterday that Trump won an overwhelming majority of 63 million votes so that told those fake news merchants!!

  24. #114

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I know it doesn't, but it hardly strikes me as a great example of democracy in action when you can get anomalies like that - I'd say exactly the same thing if Clinton was now President with the election having gone the same way but with it being Trump who got three million more votes.
    The 1951 General Election saw the Tories win even though they lost the popular vote. Would you support a system where all the votes nationally, in either the UK and US, were pooled and the party or president who’d gained the most votes wins?

  25. #115

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by severncity View Post
    The 1951 General Election saw the Tories win even though they lost the popular vote. Would you support a system where all the votes nationally, in either the UK and US, were pooled and the party or president who’d gained the most votes wins?
    Just imagine, you could smuggle half of Mexico into California and win every election

  26. #116

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by severncity View Post
    Would you support a system where all the votes nationally, in either the UK and US, were pooled and the party or president who’d gained the most votes wins?
    You mean like the Brexit referendum, which Bob & co refuse to accept

  27. #117

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by severncity View Post
    The 1951 General Election saw the Tories win even though they lost the popular vote. Would you support a system where all the votes nationally, in either the UK and US, were pooled and the party or president who’d gained the most votes wins?
    Why not? Otherwise it's akin to gerrymandering.

  28. #118

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Why not? Otherwise it's akin to gerrymandering.
    See Wales-Bales’ posts immediately above yours.

  29. #119

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by severncity View Post
    See Wales-Bales’ posts immediately above yours.
    No thanks.

  30. #120

    Re: America again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    No thanks.
    Truth hurts

    BTW Bob Mueller has just been Kavanaughed. Who should we believe this time?

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